Post-Game Talk: Potential new coach discussion thread

[colchar]

LOL at fans wanting Sutter, Torts, Kennan types of coaches. That style simply doesn't work anymore.

For the entertainment value of watching Marner's reaction.

 

[Evilhomer]

I'm guessing this is the message the organization tries to sell on Friday - it'll fall on frustrated ears, which is why they've moved it to Friday. They know the marketplace is hot for change, and they aren't prepared to make it right away and will want time to assess. Especially Pelley, who just stepped onto the train.

It's not the wrong move imo - just not one people will be happy with.

The reality is that there won't be any meaningful change to the roster until the draft and July 1/2. The coaching change will be the only short-term move.

 

[Amadeus]

Berube should be the coach, and if not, perfectly fine keeping Keefe. No better options out there.

 

[Captain34]

Keefe made strides this year. He can still improve. If the Leafs keep him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Guy Boucher, however, needs to go. We need a good PP coach.

 

[IPS]

Berube should be the coach, and if not, perfectly fine keeping Keefe. No better options out there.

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

How does Keefe still have a job? I will give them until after the Friday press conference. I'm jumping ship if he's still on board after that.

 

[Menzinger]

All the smoke regarding Berube is the same smoke Treliving from last off-season. Like I mentioned earlier the optics of changing coaches within a few days seems off to me but if they think he's the guy, why delay it? It doesn't seem like any other coaches will be let go and the current crop of coaches is rather slim to say the least.

Sharks apparently are in on Woodcroft, or he's high on their list I think. Blues hired Bannister as their full time coach. Only NJD is still without a coach, and soon to be the Leafs obviously.

I'd guess they're ironing out contract details and they announce on Friday

 

[kevsh]

If the Leafs keep him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Well it would certainly be in line with the MLSE motto of zero accountability.

And sometimes - and in this case it certainly qualifies - you simply need a new voice, a new approach, someone that will give the players optimism that this next season will be better.

Can't imagine any player would be able to say with a straight face that they 100% believe in Keefe and his staff.

 

[Enniskillen]

Amazing how people want to keep the coach and the core. Do you enjoy the first round exits and constant whining that “they’re right there”? Maybe seven years is enough?

 

[thusk]

Keefe made strides this year. He can still improve. If the Leafs keep him, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Guy Boucher, however, needs to go. We need a good PP coach.

how many coach past i this pp and never worked in playoff?

the reason is easy, outside of matthews, nobody are dangerous from distance and matthews best spot on pp should probably be at draisaitl spot. Nylander from distance is not where he's dangerous, marner from distance is not dangerous, rielly from distance is not dangerous

so if you re able to keep toronto on the outside, they will struggle.

Put the coach you want, if you dont find weapon who can hurt from distance, you will still with the same problem.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

By the way... I hope Mike Babcock burns in hell.

 

[SImpelton]

Amazing how people want to keep the coach and the core. Do you enjoy the first round exits and constant whining that “they’re right there”? Maybe seven years is enough?

I think keeping the core is not so much about liking these guys but not actually being able to do anything about them.

People are kidding themselves if they think teams are lining up to take these contracts, and if the Leafs have to eat too much money to clear them, it's probably better just to keep the regular season production.

if you're not gonna clear enough cap space to replace the production you'd lose or make meaningful changes to the roster for next year, that's a business decision the Leafs may have to make.

As for Keefe... my impression of him is that he's competent, if a bit unimaginative. NHL teams can definitely do worse than Keefe.

I'd be hard pressed to look at any point in the recent playoff losses and say "Wow, Sheldon messed that up."

Conversely i think his coaching played a sizeable role in a team with a pretty poor defense standing up to the Boston attack in games 5 and 6 and keeping them almost entirely off the scoreboard, which makes me feel like he's more of an asset than a liability, at least in that playoff series. The power play was a problem, but Keefe did a fair job of finding ways to win despite that.

I've been joking about Julien a lot in this thread but I really do see a bit of Claude in Keefe. It's a similar style, a similar ability to get bit players to play up but struggle to get stars to perform, and the Bruins won won the cup did so despite their awful power play so there's that as well. Julien won a cup, so given the fact that I personally am convinced that Keefe manufactured 2 playoff wins for the Leafs this postseason, IMHO Keefe has a chance if things fall right for him.

Also let's not forget Keefe is the only Leafs coach in recent memory to ACTUALLY WIN a playoff series. That experience is probably better kept in house unless you have an absolute home run coaching candidate willing to come in. Personally I don't see that guy. Berube sure as hell ain't him.

 

[Enniskillen]

One win in seven years, certainly that’s an amazing accomplishment. Well, we can say cheering for mediocrity is fashionable again lol

 

[Jmo89]

I think keeping the core is not so much about liking these guys but not actually being able to do anything about them.

People are kidding themselves if they think teams are lining up to take these contracts, and if the Leafs have to eat too much money to clear them, it's probably better just to keep the regular season production.

if you're not gonna clear enough cap space to replace the production you'd lose or make meaningful changes to the roster for next year, that's a business decision the Leafs may have to make.

As for Keefe... my impression of him is that he's competent, if a bit unimaginative. NHL teams can definitely do worse than Keefe.

I'd be hard pressed to look at any point in the recent playoff losses and say "Wow, Sheldon messed that up."

Conversely i think his coaching played a sizeable role in a team with a pretty poor defense standing up to the Boston attack in games 5 and 6 and keeping them almost entirely off the scoreboard, which makes me feel like he's more of an asset than a liability, at least in that playoff series. The power play was a problem, but Keefe did a fair job of finding ways to win despite that.

I've been joking about Julien a lot in this thread but I really do see a bit of Claude in Keefe. It's a similar style, a similar ability to get bit players to play up but struggle to get stars to perform, and the Bruins won won the cup did so despite their awful power play so there's that as well. Julien won a cup, so given the fact that I personally am convinced that Keefe manufactured 2 playoff wins for the Leafs this postseason, IMHO Keefe has a chance if things fall right for him.

Also let's not forget Keefe is the only Leafs coach in recent memory to ACTUALLY WIN a playoff series. That experience is probably better kept in house unless you have an absolute home run coaching candidate willing to come in. Personally I don't see that guy. Berube sure as hell ain't him.

Out of curiosity, who do you root for? I don't ask to be argumentative. I ask because if you're a Boston fan you got to see Babcock pull off one of the worst coaching jobs I've ever seen in his second Boston series. When comparing Keefe to that, you may have a point.

Game 5 and 6 were probably Keefe's best performances, and you've got to wonder, was that because of Joseph Woll? I know as soon as I heard Woll was injured I lost every shred of confidence in them winning game 7. There wasn't anything too egregious in game 7, but why was the 4th line out after Toronto finally scored and took a lead with 10 minutes left?

I've consistently said all year (mostly with my Dad) that Toronto likely doesn't overcome Samsonov and Keefe come playoffs.

I can't stand Keefe but I'll admit he's in a bit of an odd spot where his regular season numbers are inflated by the core while his post season numbers are negatively affected by the same core that consistently underperforms.

At the end of the day he's consistently out-coached and has lost more than he's won when it matters. As an aside, It's great that MLSE thought they could be the smarter than everyone and win with a rookie president, rookie gm, and rookie coach, but unsurprisingly the lack of experience has caused serious problems.

 

[egd27]

I'm not saying keep Sheldon Keefe, but I would caution against the grass-is-greener mentality. a lot of NHL coaches would have lost the Bruins series in 5 or 6.

It's not that he lost this series, it's that he lost:

the Florida Series badly
the 22 TBL lightning series (game 7 at home)
the Habs series in a humiliating way
the CBJ series in what should have been 4 if not for a miracle comeback and OT PP

It's just not working

Is Berube the bad coach?

according to @verybias any coach Tre picks will be a bad coach.

 

[Trapper]

Amazing how people want to keep the coach and the core. Do you enjoy the first round exits and constant whining that “they’re right there”? Maybe seven years is enough?

I don’t think I can watch this core anymore. We will see what the summer brings, but if they don’t change the core, I don’t really care who the coach is.
3rd coach, 2nd GM, all the depth, goaltending, defenders, 1 playoff win in 8, same core. Hard to get excited.

 

[SImpelton]

Out of curiosity, who do you root for? I don't ask to be argumentative. I ask because if you're a Boston fan you got to see Babcock pull off one of the worst coaching jobs I've ever seen in his second Boston series. When comparing Keefe to that, you may have a point.

I'm a Bruins fan who is intrigued by your situation. Trying to imagine how Id address the problem.

Frankly the problem isn't that the Leafs are bad. they are inconsistent. they're a melange of trash and genuine assets and figuring out who is what is the first step in the challenge. I don't envy the person whose job is to make that call when it comes to the Leafs.

Last couple postseasons I've had an eye on Toronto because Boston hasn't been all that great and I have a thing for lost causes and underdogs.

I'm honestly impressed with some of your depth guys. Knies is starting to settle into a role as a middle 6 leader on the team. Kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I like Edmondton, he looked great at times. The D had its moments despite the lack of high end talent. Woll is good, although I honestly think he's destined for a platoon role.

I also think that while Keefe isn't getting the most out of your stars, he IS finding ways to get a lot out of the young guys, keeping them motivated, getting them playing with energy. The question of Keefw is, does allowing your depth and supporting cast play well over their heads in the postseason, matter more than pandering to the stars or not. It's a question I can't answer honestly because I don't know. Personally I don't believe in pandering to stars and that's flavoring my take on Keefe, who seems to agree.

my opinion is that the players that buy in are playing well under Keefe. He's got the team organized, the structure is good, and they're capable of stealing games, even in the playoffs, even with the key guys NOT buying in. you look at the young guys you see them in a structure that allows them to thrive. That tells me the coach is doing a pretty good job

but you've gotta do something about the stars NOT wanting to play the way Keefe wants them to. If you asked me what the single biggest anchor around the neeck of the Tornoto Maple Leafs is, that's what I'd answer

The Bruins had this issue years and years ago, with Joe Thornton. It seemed like insanity to trade him but it was the best decision the franchise has ever made. Out went Thornton, in came guys who weren't really stars (Marco Sturm, PJ Axelsson) but played well together, behind a single offensive star named Marc Savard. In came Captain Chara. In came a scrub goaltender who'd been playing in Finland and barely cracked an NHL roster, but played with his heart on his sleeve, named Tim Thomas. A guy we'd been developing behind thornton for a few years, a developmental project named Patrice Bergeron, was already here. In came Boychuk and Ference in a trade with Calgary. In came Krejci and Lucic from the draft. The identity of the team took shape and then took over.

Once the team was buying what Julien was selling and got comfortable in their own skins, they started playing way over their talent level, finally won their first playoff series -- against Montreal of all teams -- and it eventually led to a Cup and to a couple other deepish playoff runs. I don't think we get there if we stick to Jumbo Joe Thornton. The tough decision paid off for us. I think the Leafs are in the exact same position, times four. And I don't envy you.

Oh and in the middle of that building process we traded away another guy that our fans honestly thought was a superstar. His name was Phil Kessel and he'd just scored 40 that year. Not to rub salt in any wounds but you might have heard about how that trade turned out for us.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Marner, Nylander, Rielly and Sammy f***ed on that play in that order. Definitely not all Marner;'s fault. He just looks bad and is an easy target.

Not everyone is an easy target...hmmm, unless you make yourself the easy target

 

[CincoHolio]

Starting to come around on Berube. Not because it feels inevitable. After reading the Berube Appreciation thread on the Blues board, sounds like he might be a decent choice for what we need. For what it's worth, I don't believe he's another Carlisle.

 

[Enniskillen]

I'm a Bruins fan who is intrigued by your situation. Trying to imagine how Id address the problem.

Frankly the problem isn't that the Leafs are bad. they are inconsistent. they're a melange of trash and genuine assets and figuring out who is what is the first step in the challenge. I don't envy the person whose job is to make that call when it comes to the Leafs.

Last couple postseasons I've had an eye on Toronto because Boston hasn't been all that great and I have a thing for lost causes and underdogs.

I'm honestly impressed with some of your depth guys. Knies is starting to settle into a role as a middle 6 leader on the team. Kid's got a good head on his shoulders. I like Edmondton, he looked great at times. The D had its moments despite the lack of high end talent. Woll is good, although I honestly think he's destined for a platoon role.

I also think that while Keefe isn't getting the most out of your stars, he IS finding ways to get a lot out of the young guys, keeping them motivated, getting them playing with energy. The question of Keefw is, does allowing your depth and supporting cast play well over their heads in the postseason, matter more than pandering to the stars or not. It's a question I can't answer honestly because I don't know. Personally I don't believe in pandering to stars and that's flavoring my take on Keefe, who seems to agree.

my opinion is that the players that buy in are playing well under Keefe. He's got the team organized, the structure is good, and they're capable of stealing games, even in the playoffs, even with the key guys NOT buying in. you look at the young guys you see them in a structure that allows them to thrive. That tells me the coach is doing a pretty good job

but you've gotta do something about the stars NOT wanting to play the way Keefe wants them to. If you asked me what the single biggest anchor around the neeck of the Tornoto Maple Leafs is, that's what I'd answer

The Bruins had this issue years and years ago, with Joe Thornton. It seemed like insanity to trade him but it was the best decision the franchise has ever made. Out went Thornton, in came guys who weren't really stars (Marco Sturm, PJ Axelsson) but played well together, behind a single offensive star named Marc Savard. In came Captain Chara. In came a scrub goaltender who'd been playing in Finland and barely cracked an NHL roster, but played with his heart on his sleeve, named Tim Thomas. A guy we'd been developing behind thornton for a few years, a developmental project named Patrice Bergeron, was already here. In came Boychuk and Ference in a trade with Calgary. In came Krejci and Lucic from the draft. The identity of the team took shape and then took over.

Once the team was buying what Julien was selling and got comfortable in their own skins, they started playing way over their talent level, finally won their first playoff series -- against Montreal of all teams -- and it eventually led to a Cup and to a couple other deepish playoff runs. I don't think we get there if we stick to Jumbo Joe Thornton. The tough decision paid off for us. I think the Leafs are in the exact same position, times four. And I don't envy you.

Oh and in the middle of that building process we traded away another guy that our fans honestly thought was a superstar. His name was Phil Kessel and he'd just scored 40 that year. Not to rub salt in any wounds but you might have heard about how that trade turned out for us.

Wow, you have lots of free time on your hands writing Leaf Beowulf style sagas. And my guess is you live in Ontario as for some reason, the most, how to put it mildly, rabid Bruins fans live here.

 

[Enniskillen]

Keefe should be gone for icing the 4th line after the Leafs scored, with 10 minutes to go. He has been burned with similar goals for years, and he stubbornly had been doing that cause it was his stupid system.

 

[SImpelton]

Wow, you have lots of free time on your hands writing Leaf Beowulf style sagas. And my guess is you live in Ontario as for some reason, the most, how to put it mildly, rabid Bruins fans live here.

Actually I live in Maine. Long winters tend to breed long winded writing styles.

Keefe should be gone for icing the 4th line after the Leafs scored, with 10 minutes to go. He has been burned with similar goals for years, and he stubbornly had been doing that cause it was his stupid system.

That's actually not a bad time to bring out your energy line. It's a pretty ordinary call.

 

[Enniskillen]

Actually I live in Maine. Long winters tend to breed long winded writing styles.


That's actually not a bad time to bring out your energy line. It's a pretty ordinary call.

Not in game 7 with 10 minutes remaining. In game 79 of regular season, sure, but in crucial moment at the end of game 7? No, dear sir simpleton.

 

[647Hockey]

Who knows what will happen, but Keefe has got to be gone eventually. As for a replacement, Leafs have tried two different types of coaches.

Old school loud Babock who chew out players even on TV. And chill players coach Keefe.

Both coaches had the same result. Great regular seasons. Lousy playoffs.

 

[SImpelton]

Not in game 7 with 10 minutes remaining. In game 79 of regular season, sure, but in crucial moment at the end of game 7? No, dear sir simpleton.

The Bruins did exactly that in the last few minutes of Game 7 against Tampa in the 2011 ECF, arguably one of the greatest NHL playoff games of all time, after going up 1-0 in the dying minutes of the game. You're just salty that it didn't work this time.

Not every decision that doesn't work out is an actual mistake.