Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[BKIslandersFan]

Around 95% of the Thrashers fanbase are located at least 20 miles north of downtown. This is not an exaggeration, this is a fact that I know has been stated before in this thread.

Logically speaking, a business will locate itself in an area where its consumers and target market lives, not the place it hopes to attract them to. The NHL's target market are hockey fans and money. There's a reason why both Carter and Krause are planning their developments in the Alpharetta area.

I'm sure others can provide more details. This is just what I know. I lived south of town during the Thrashers era, and have only lived north of town for the past two years.

Majority of season ticket holders being from the burbs is the same for every city.

 

[dj4aces]

Majority of season ticket holders being from the burbs is the same for every city.

I think others explained it far better than I could, particularly due to the onset to this migraine.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I think others explained it far better than I could, particularly due to the onset to this migraine.

I am not saying suburb is not a better location, I just don't think putting the new team in the city means it will fail.

 

[Tawnos]

Do you not have Blaze or PiCo in malls down there?

Blaze has locations here, but none of them are inside of malls. I’ve never heard of PiCo and a brief search online brings up a company that only exists in Canada.

So still, Sbarro is the best mall pizza I’ve ever had

 

[Tawnos]

I am not saying suburb is not a better location, I just don't think putting the new team in the city means it will fail.

The main issue I see with a suburban locations in a sprawl city like Atlanta is that you cut yourself off from any future growth opportunities in the parts of the metro area on the other side of the city. At least somewhat. And while it would be better to be in the suburban area where the fans already are and the most growth potential is, in the real long-term (say 30 years) it could end up being a ceiling on how much market penetration the team could achieve.

There was a trend for a while with suburban stadiums, then the trend reversed back into downtown stadiums. The one difference today from the original suburban trend is the advent of the entertainment district, which can offset the lost growth opportunities due to location.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

There was a trend for a while with suburban stadiums, then the trend reversed back into downtown stadiums. The one difference today from the original suburban trend is the advent of the entertainment district, which can offset the lost growth opportunities due to location.

Thats true for NFL, and to limited extent MLB, but I don't see that pattern in NBA and NHL.

In fact this is why Coyotes are in trouble now.

 

[sneakytitz]

I am not saying suburb is not a better location, I just don't think putting the new team in the city means it will fail.

I think you'll get 80% of tickets sold when the team isn't good if they are downtown. Thrashers sold very well even when they were dogshit the first 5 years but once the luster wore off and they weren't perennial contenders, the place was 80% filled, on average. If they were contenders, or on the cusp, yeah, you'd get far more but I think the suburbs means they're 100% filled even if they're dogshit.

Truth be told, Hawks are dogshit right now but they're selling 104% of their tickets. Every night is a sell out. Why? They're right in the middle of their buyers, who will support their team no matter what (a star doesn't help either!). Anson and Krause have the general area nailed down and they're right. That will be THE PLACE to be on any night there is a game, no matter the on ice product.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Truth be told, Hawks are dogshit right now but they're selling 104% of their tickets. Every night is a sell out. Why? They're right in the middle of their buyers, who will support their team no matter what (a star doesn't help either!). Anson and Krause have the general area nailed down and they're right. That will be THE PLACE to be on any night there is a game, no matter the on ice product.

Believe it or not Hawks season ticket holder fan base is not that radically different from Braves or formerly Thrashers. NBA season ticket holders are also generally well to do white family from the burbs.

 

[Tawnos]

Thats true for NFL, and to limited extent MLB, but I don't see that pattern in NBA and NHL.

In fact this is why Coyotes are in trouble now.

The big “what if” about the Coyotes is what would have happened if the Great Recession hadn’t destroyed Westgate’s plans. They were on the leading edge of this idea. Now, every new arena over the last 10 years is part of a mixed use district. Detroit, Edmonton, Vegas, Islanders… with the sort of distinction of Seattle, which was built into an existing one (think they’re the only one not pulling revenue from the district). All upcoming construction includes one… Calgary, Ottawa. All the proposals for new arenas include mixed use… Phoenix, SLC, Atlanta, DC. If they can, renovations include a district too… see: Carolina Hurricanes.

We’re in a place in the arena cycle where there aren’t that many new arenas being built. We’ve seen a bunch of major renovations. It’s a fair point that these aren’t suburban though, except the Islanders which is unavoidable.

 

[Yukon Joe]

The big “what if” about the Coyotes is what would have happened if the Great Recession hadn’t destroyed Westgate’s plans. They were on the leading edge of this idea. Now, every new arena over the last 10 years is part of a mixed use district. Detroit, Edmonton, Vegas, Islanders… with the sort of distinction of Seattle, which was built into an existing one (think they’re the only one not pulling revenue from the district). All upcoming construction includes one… Calgary, Ottawa. All the proposals for new arenas include mixed use… Phoenix, SLC, Atlanta, DC. If they can, renovations include a district too… see: Carolina Hurricanes.

The problem was in 2005 when Ellman sold the Coyotes to Moyes - but Ellman kept Westgate.

He severed the entertainment district from the team, which was the very thing that was supposed to provide revenues to the team. Not that was probably a good deal for Ellman (until the Great Recession hit) but terrible for the Coyotes.

 

[StreetHawk]

The problem was in 2005 when Ellman sold the Coyotes to Moyes - but Ellman kept Westgate.

He severed the entertainment district from the team, which was the very thing that was supposed to provide revenues to the team. Not that was probably a good deal for Ellman (until the Great Recession hit) but terrible for the Coyotes.

Always need to be wary of real estate deals when it comes to NHL clubs and their arenas.

End of the day, teams can/will be sold in the future. Always want to ensure that the club is viable without the other real estate stuff. Be it owning the arena outright or getting a lease like Nashville does as a tenant, you want the team to be viable on its own.

NHL needs to ensure that this is going to happen with ATL.

 

[BMN]

The problem was in 2005 when Ellman sold the Coyotes to Moyes - but Ellman kept Westgate.

He severed the entertainment district from the team, which was the very thing that was supposed to provide revenues to the team. Not that was probably a good deal for Ellman (until the Great Recession hit) but terrible for the Coyotes.

So much this. In a span of two years, the Coyotes went from being ahead of the curve to radically behind it.

 

[nhlfan79]

WSB-TV has a story today about Anson Carter and the North Point Mall redevelopment idea. No new news, but it's fresh content.

This website is unavailable in your location. – WSB-TV Channel 2 - Atlanta

www.wsbtv.com

 

[ponder719]

So still, Sbarro is the best mall pizza I’ve ever had

Please find better malls.

 

[dj4aces]

WSB-TV has a story today about Anson Carter and the North Point Mall redevelopment idea. No new news, but it's fresh content.

And here's a working link, archived so non-locals can read it.

 

[dj4aces]

No idea when it'll actually be up, or whether it'll be geoblocked, but Maria Martin of 11Alive will have an interview with Krause online sometime soon™.



Edit: Here's a link to the interview. Hopefully it's not geoblocked, but I'd have no way of knowing, and I'm not sure if archive.org would save the video data.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Cool clip of how it all started. Also it's good to see that there will be reported news from this town hall.

 

[dj4aces]

Not gonna lie, the Bobby Orr name drop piqued my interest. There's a lot more questions than answers still, but it's certainly interesting that Orr facilitated a meeting between Bettman and Krause.

I genuinely hope some of those questions are answered tonight.

 

[sneakytitz]

"As soon as we get a decision from the county, we're ready to go."

Hell yeah!

 

[MMC]

 

[No Fun Shogun]

To be fair, why wouldn't a majority of locals support a team coming in? Even if someone's not a hockey fan, there's really no reasonable rationale to be against a team opening up shop. Would the majority support still be in place once a location is established and/or any public money expectations are announced? We'll see.

For instance, a vast majority in Chicago probably support both the Bears and the Sox building new stadiums, but the devil's in the details and the number of supporters rapidly dwindles depending on location and if public money is required or not.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

To be fair, why wouldn't a majority of locals support a team coming in? Even if someone's not a hockey fan, there's really no reasonable rationale to be against a team opening up shop. Would the majority support still be in place once a location is established and/or any public money expectations are announced? We'll see.

For instance, a vast majority in Chicago probably support both the Bears and the Sox building new stadiums, but the devil's in the details and the number of supporters rapidly dwindles depending on location and if public money is required or not.

According to The Gathering’s backers, key findings showed that 78 percent of registered voters in the county support an investment comparable The Battery, with 10 percent expressing uncertainty.

The battery required a lot of public funding.

That said, it's likely a small sample set.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Interesting caveat. Thanks for pointing out the clarification.

 

[BMN]

To be fair, why wouldn't a majority of locals support a team coming in? Even if someone's not a hockey fan, there's really no reasonable rationale to be against a team opening up shop. Would the majority support still be in place once a location is established and/or any public money expectations are announced? We'll see.

I guess it really depends on what questions were specifically asked. If someone is just asked rather casually "hey would you like the NHL to come back to Atlanta?," saying yes or no is something I don't see as indicative of much of anything. It's more brass tack questions like "how many games would you go to?" or "how much would you be willing to spend on a ticket?," etc. etc. that's more telling of anything.

Even if people didn't want their tax dollars going towards it, that doesn't mean they won't support it anyway (or that the minority that are fine with the tax money going towards it won't buy enough tickets to outweigh everyone else). As I recall, approving the Cobb deal played a big role in Tim Lee's defeat re-running for the county chairman title. That was a year before the Braves started actually playing in said stadium. And when it came time to (literally) play ball?......the attendance of Braves games pretty much lived up to exactly what the ownership group projected anyway.

 

[tucker3434]

This development would be Forsyth throwing their hat in the ring to battle the other burbs as a destination. Right now, they’ve got nothing. Hopefully many will see that as an opportunity. At the same time, since it is farther out, you’ll have folks that want Forsyth to stay “the country” and don’t want growth or traffic (you see that often in the Facebook comments). We’ll have to see how large and loud that second group is. With or without this development, they’re fighting a losing battle. Atlanta is expanding whether they like it or not.