Post Training Camp Roster Discussion

[deeshamrock]

Originally Posted by deeshamrock
No 2 playoff runs are alike and what would or would not occur if (and a big if) the Hawks met the Kings in the WCF.
The Hawks are the champs and should be one of the top teams this year. However, some things have changes. Part of their success last year was
1) a shortened season, they won't just be playing WC teams this year, they'll ahve to play elite teams/tough teams from the East and

2) Emery provided excellent relief for Crawford and was in about 40% of their games. I don't know over a full season if KHabibulin can sustain that type of play.

3) Any possible trip to the WCF now (unlike last year) goes thru St Louis due to divisional play. The Blues are a physically punishing team and look what damage (and injuries) came out of the 1st round vs the Kings , who are bigger and stronger (more physical) than the Hawks. Kane hates physical contact and avoids confrontations when he can, what do you think he['ll look like after 6 or 7 games vs the Blues? If the Hawks and Blues do meet in round 2, there's a strong change St Louis gets past the Hawks. And even if they did, they'd be just as battered, bloodied, bruised and injured as the Kings were last year. That would make a diffrence.

4) The Kings has a much more difficult path to the WCF last year, than the Hawks did. They underperformed thru the 1st series and most of the 2nd and almost lost. ANd if the Kings had been fully healthy, including Mitchell , it might have turned out differently.

5) I don't like the make up of the Kings bottom 6 either but agree with TG on this one. I don't think the 3r d and 4th lines will be the same come playoff time or before. If that 3rd line doesn't produce, Sutter knows that there are bodies , hungry and eager, that can. They need more from that 3rd line and maybe they will come thru, but if they don't, they'll make the changes necesary, including a trade.

Originally Posted by Kingsfan
Good points. One I think you missed though is Bolland being traded. I think he will be very hard for them to replace and make for a much easier matchup against his line. He was expensive and as such had to go, but he was very good at a lot of things

.

Great point, you're right about that, and I thought of that last night watching him and Raymond on the Leafs 3rd line and having pretty good game. I thought at the time I would have rather have kept him than overpay for Bickell. I tihnk Bolland and Raymond will provide some solid production forthe Leafs 3rd line.

 

[sinister6000]

I would like to see Jeff Carter play center on this team. He was the best player in the playoffs last season for the kings when he moved to center. Chicago didn't have anyone that could stop him at even strength, plus playing center allows him to have more room to use his speed. And he was making plays for his wingers. Having Richards, Kopitar, and Carter all play center would make the team deeper, and harder to stop 5 on 5.

 

[Kings4thecup]

Except Person/Vey/Toffoli all make like 200K more than King/Carcillo/Nolan. So really they can't.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Tyler Toffoli ($0.870m)
Matt Frattin ($0.488m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Tanner Pearson ($0.925m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.700m)
Kyle Clifford ($1.075m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.250m) / Trevor Lewis ($1.325m)
Dwight King ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Robyn Regehr ($3.000m) / Drew Doughty ($7.000m)
Willie Mitchell ($3.500m) / Slava Voynov ($4.167m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($1.100m)
Jake Muzzin ($1.000m) / Keaton Ellerby ($0.735m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
Ben Scrivens ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,831,894; BONUSES: $332,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $468,106


Seems to work fine......

 

[kingsfan]

.

Great point, you're right about that, and I thought of that last night watching him and Raymond on the Leafs 3rd line and having pretty good game. I thought at the time I would have rather have kept him than overpay for Bickell. I tihnk Bolland and Raymond will provide some solid production forthe Leafs 3rd line.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[kingsfan]

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Tyler Toffoli ($0.870m)
Matt Frattin ($0.488m) / Jeff Carter ($5.273m) / Justin Williams ($3.650m)
Tanner Pearson ($0.925m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jordan Nolan ($0.700m)
Kyle Clifford ($1.075m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.250m) / Trevor Lewis ($1.325m)
Dwight King ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Robyn Regehr ($3.000m) / Drew Doughty ($7.000m)
Willie Mitchell ($3.500m) / Slava Voynov ($4.167m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Alec Martinez ($1.100m)
Jake Muzzin ($1.000m) / Keaton Ellerby ($0.735m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($5.800m)
Ben Scrivens ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,831,894; BONUSES: $332,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $468,106


Seems to work fine......

Works later in the season. To tight to the cap now and you are healthy scratching a guy in King who had arguably one of the best camps of any forward. Additionally, where is Carcillo and Colin Fraser? You waiving them?

 

[Johnny Utah]

People need to stop with this Pearson/Vey/Toffoli charade.

Pearson and TT barely played an entire AHL season. Vey plays a position that the Kings are deepest in and may be passed up by Shore.

With the salaries of these younger salaries, coupled with the lack of experience and the camp that King had THERE IS JUST NO ROOM.

If injuries happen or players struggle you may see 1 or 2 for a few games.

Kings would have to deal one of Williams, Carter or Lewis to make Toffoli a full time NHL'er.

Kings would have to deal one of Brown, King, Clifford to make Pearson a full time NHL'er...

Kings would have to deal one of Kopitar, Richards, Stoll or Fraser to make Vey a full time NHL'er...

Likely, none of those scenario's above will happen and if they do deal one of those players...ie Fraser, Andreoff is a better replacement for a 4th line center OR you move Lewis to the 4th line center role.

 

[Pucknut50]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

with that attitude, I hope you do

 

[deeshamrock]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

Based on what?? They were top 7 in scoring in the NHL last year and from from what they've shown so far will be far from boring. Frattin changes the dynamic on the 2nd line which is finally balanced (power forward/playmaker/sniper) and will produce more goals. Kopi not hampered by a brace will amp up his mobility and the coaches have already goine over video with him and he will be driving to the net and shooting more. More goals. More assists. More points for him and better power play as well.
The 5 inch gap in most goalies pads will help as well as the smaller nets.

You don't want to watch the Kings until April, that's fine, but you'll be missing a lot of great hockey.

 

[etherialone]

Based on what?? They were top 7 in scoring in the NHL last year and from from what they've shown so far will be far from boring. Frattin changes the dynamic on the 2nd line which is finally balanced (power forward/playmaker/sniper) and will produce more goals. Kopi not hampered by a brace will amp up his mobility and the coaches have already goine over video with him and he will be driving to the net and shooting more. More goals. More assists. More points for him and better power play as well.
The 5 inch gap in most goalies pads will help as well as the smaller nets.

You don't want to watch the Kings until April, that's fine, but you'll be missing a lot of great hockey.

I 100% agree with everything you said. We are finally a great team and I for one will watch every second I can. Try to wash some of the bad decades out of my mouth. To each their own but I think we will have a more balanced team who will be fun to watch. Room for everyone on the bus though.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

Last season the Kings finished 10th in the league in goals, averaging 2.75 goals per game, good for 3rd overall in the Western Conference. Scoring was down in the playoffs as the Hawks finished averaging 2.78 goals per game during the post season. The Kings goals per game average was down to 2.06 during the post season.

You pretty much admitted to being a bandwagon fan...

 

[bmr]

Last season the Kings finished 10th in the league in goals, averaging 2.75 goals per game, good for 3rd overall in the Western Conference. Scoring was down in the playoffs as the Hawks finished averaging 2.78 goals per game during the post season. The Kings goals per game average was down to 2.06 during the post season.

You pretty much admitted to being a bandwagon fan...

Oh snap.

 

[King'sPawn]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

It's a 3-2 league, brah.

 

[HYORI 1963]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

I understand. You're just frustrated like many kings fans are. I mean, who would have thought at the very beginning of the training camp that our 3rd line would remain King-Stoll-Lewis (Yes, I know Brownie will get the start here)? And how many of us thought that no prospect would stick with the club???

I for one am surprised and disappointed as well, but we do have Frattin and we do have Mitchell, so, let's just wait and see.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Last season the Kings finished 10th in the league in goals, averaging 2.75 goals per game, good for 3rd overall in the Western Conference. Scoring was down in the playoffs as the Hawks finished averaging 2.78 goals per game during the post season. The Kings goals per game average was down to 2.06 during the post season.

You pretty much admitted to being a bandwagon fan...

Ziggy is our Mark Twain

 

[Whiskeypete]

Good points. One I think you missed though is Bolland being traded. I think he will be very hard for them to replace and make for a much easier matchup against his line. He was expensive and as such had to go, but he was very good at a lot of things.

.

Great point, you're right about that, and I thought of that last night watching him and Raymond on the Leafs 3rd line and having pretty good game. I thought at the time I would have rather have kept him than overpay for Bickell. I tihnk Bolland and Raymond will provide some solid production forthe Leafs 3rd line.

here in CHI there was no way the fans wanted Bolland over Bickell. Bolland was to a hawks fan, what Stoll is for a Kings fan. highly overpaid for the lack of point production than was expected. the only difference was Stoll was pushed to a #3C spot, where CHI was still trying Bolland at the #2C spot. if Stoll was still in that position it would be the same exact scenario

 

[Kings4thecup]

I understand your second point (don't necessarily agree with it), but the first point doesn't make sense. The Kings can afford it under the cap with the lines that were suggested. LA can infuse a lot more skill using the kids on ELC's and spread the offense around and making it harder for thinner teams to match up. It requires dumping a few players, mostly redundant bottom 3 types, but it's very doable.

Works later in the season. To tight to the cap now and you are healthy scratching a guy in King who had arguably one of the best camps of any forward. Additionally, where is Carcillo and Colin Fraser? You waiving them?

Waive, trade, whatever. I was not really even arguing for it, just saying it is possible(which you said wasn't, but works in the calculator fine with nearly a half million in excess space for later).

I like the big 4 center idea for many reasons. Carter was a beast when playing center without Richards in the post season (heck, Carter was a beast all last season). It would also make us harder to match up against. I doubt it happens any time soon, but it may happen later in the season due to injuries. Sutter loves the bangers so Nolan, Clifford, Fraser, Carcillo, King .......... all have there positions for now. Heck, you could even use you bangers spread across the 4 lines without bringing the kids up. Toffoli has shown he has the talent to play at this level, and makes the team more skillful. I would prefer he was on the team than any 1 of the listed players. But due to contract reasons that isn't going to happen until injuries require it.

 

[Pucknut50]

Last season the Kings finished 10th in the league in goals, averaging 2.75 goals per game, good for 3rd overall in the Western Conference. Scoring was down in the playoffs as the Hawks finished averaging 2.78 goals per game during the post season. The Kings goals per game average was down to 2.06 during the post season.

You pretty much admitted to being a bandwagon fan...

Yup I am a bandwagon fan. Season tickets since 1971. Married a girl 21 years ago and the only request I had was she never ask me to give up watching a Kings game unless she was ready to give birth. She has kept her promise. Look I was being 1/2 serious but the 3rd and 4th lines bore me to death. It's like watching my daughters hamsters on the wheel using alot of energy but going nowhere.

 

[Pucknut50]

I understand. You're just frustrated like many kings fans are. I mean, who would have thought at the very beginning of the training camp that our 3rd line would remain King-Stoll-Lewis (Yes, I know Brownie will get the start here)? And how many of us thought that no prospect would stick with the club???

I for one am surprised and disappointed as well, but we do have Frattin and we do have Mitchell, so, let's just wait and see.

Black1963 - You get me.

 

[Herby]

Yup I am a bandwagon fan. Season tickets since 1971. Married a girl 21 years ago and the only request I had was she never ask me to give up watching a Kings game unless she was ready to give birth. She has kept her promise. Look I was being 1/2 serious but the 3rd and 4th lines bore me to death. It's like watching my daughters hamsters on the wheel using alot of energy but going nowhere.

I feel your pain.

It's amazing to me that they did nothing to upgrade the bottom lines (please spare me the Carcillo bs).

King, Stoll, Lewis, Clifford, Fraser, Nolan/Carcillo is just a bad bottom six, no other way to put it. There is no one in that group that is a take charge bottom six kind of guy. There is no Draper, is no Yelle, Ricci, Madden etc. that are key to great teams.

Very disappointed they did not even give one of the young guys a sniff and will return essentially the same bottom six that was an abomination in last years playoffs.

Hopefully midseason they bring up guys like Pearson and TT because they are going to need a lot more from the bottom six to make a cup run.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Yup I am a bandwagon fan. Season tickets since 1971. Married a girl 21 years ago and the only request I had was she never ask me to give up watching a Kings game unless she was ready to give birth. She has kept her promise. Look I was being 1/2 serious but the 3rd and 4th lines bore me to death. It's like watching my daughters hamsters on the wheel using alot of energy but going nowhere.

I'm with you too. Not saying I agree with you for 100% but so annoying to be called a bandwagoner because you are not satisfied with the line up.

Bottom six is horrible offensively. Just there to create some havoc and give the top 6 some rest.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Well...Stoll is back healthy. Lewis should have some confidence from the US Olympic Invite and is going to be an UFA.

Clifford worked on his skating. Nolan lost some weight. Fraser will be a UFA. Carcillo will be a UFA.

A lot of these guys have there future to play for now, not just a Stanley Cup hangover.

 

[Battle Hymns]

I would like to see Jeff Carter play center on this team. He was the best player in the playoffs last season for the kings when he moved to center. Chicago didn't have anyone that could stop him at even strength, plus playing center allows him to have more room to use his speed. And he was making plays for his wingers. Having Richards, Kopitar, and Carter all play center would make the team deeper, and harder to stop 5 on 5.

i agree 100%

 

[Battle Hymns]

O.K. Kings fans basically same team as last year. Get ready for more boring 2-1 games. Go Kings Go. Maybe I just skip the regular season and come back for the playoff run to the cup.

good riddance.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Let's go Kings.