Post-mortem on the season

[Tom Hanks]

Why do we wanna deal Phil??

Foul Phil (Garbage Pail Kids) the resemblance is uncanny.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Foul Phil (Garbage Pail Kids) the resemblance is uncanny.

Shit you're right.

 

[cygnus47]

Stopped reading when you said we got outplayed by CBJ

Great attitude! Also, "for the most part".

EDIT - MAF outplayed Bob, who pulled an .882 SV%. That was why we won. We were outshot in 4 games, and not just after we got ahead.

 

[Andy99]

Foul Phil (Garbage Pail Kids) the resemblance is uncanny.

I dunno...looks a lot like Barry Trotz....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What kinda cigar my dude??

I haven't had a cigar in months.

It's one a buddy at work gave me when he had a daughter a week ago.

Flor de Cano, Petit Corona. It's fairly light, pairs well with my Macallan Amber.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don’t know...sounds like you hit the Jack a lot earlier, and weren’t sipping....

Jack?

I don't drink that swill.

 

[PensPlz]

Great attitude! Also, "for the most part".

EDIT - MAF outplayed Bob, who pulled an .882 SV%. That was why we won. We were outshot in 4 games, and not just after we got ahead.

They don't call him Playoff Bob for nothing.

I don't disagree that 2017 was an odd year for us, but the defense last year played a hell of a lot better than our defense this year. Would have taken Hainsey, Daley, and Cole over Letang.

 

[Andy99]

Jack?

I don't drink that swill.

Sorry...Macallan 25 year single malt I guess....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sorry...Macallan 25 year single malt I guess....

If you're going to talk dirty to me, do it via PM's man.

 

[Rossi Rat]

I don’t know if this is being talked about on the around the NHL thread, but apparently Josi and Ellis, 2 supposed elite defensemen, played pretty bad for Nashville.

It happens, usually great players play bad. And that will usually sink you in the playoffs.

Obviously Letang is a more worrisome case than Phil, given he has such a huge cap hit and it was his first season back from such major surgery.

 

[canadianguy77]

I don’t know if this is being talked about on the around the NHL thread, but apparently Josi and Ellis, 2 supposed elite defensemen, played pretty bad for Nashville.

It happens, usually great players play bad. And that will usually sink you in the playoffs.

Obviously Letang is a more worrisome case than Phil, given he has such a huge cap hit and it was his first season back from such major surgery.

They were being out-muscled in their own zone all series long by Winnipeg's big forwards. They weren't giving up four or five 2 on 1's from bad pinches every game like Letang did. Huge difference.

 

[Andy99]

They were being out-muscled in their own zone all series long by Winnipeg's big forwards. They weren't giving up four or five 2 on 1's from bad pinches every game like Letang did. Huge difference.

No but Subban and Ekholm we’re making boneheaded clearing plays and turnovers in their own zone that led to great scoring chances...not just in this series but all POs...they were worse defenders than Josi and Ellis imo....

 

[canadianguy77]

No but Subban and Ekholm we’re making boneheaded clearing plays and turnovers in their own zone that led to great scoring chances...not just in this series but all POs...they were worse defenders than Josi and Ellis imo....

Sure. We had our own problems with that as well from Maatta and Schultz particularly. Every team does it. But that stuff can be somewhat mitigated if your forwards aren't cheating out of the zone.

What can't be mitigated are the 2 on 1's starting from the offensive zone is sort of the point I was trying to make. It's what separates Letang from all of the other top dmen in the league when it comes to unneeded errors. Some posters here just like to lump him in with the other elite guys and say "they all make mistakes," but fail to understand that his mistakes are much worse, and are absolutely crippling in a playoff series because even on your better days, you're lucky if your goalie can stop even half of them.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sure. We had our own problems with that as well from Maatta and Schultz particularly. Every team does it. But that stuff can be somewhat mitigated if your forwards aren't cheating out of the zone.

What can't be mitigated are the 2 on 1's starting from the offensive zone is sort of the point I was trying to make. It's what separates Letang from all of the other top dmen in the league when it comes to unneeded errors. Some posters here just like to lump him in with the other elite guys and say "they all make mistakes," but fail to understand that his mistakes are much worse, and are absolutely crippling in a playoff series because even on your better days, you're lucky if your goalie can stop even half of them.

So, every 2 on 1 was Letang’s fault?

Because the GWG that people want to cite as Letang’s fault in Game 5 was started by Maatta.

The 2 on 1s are a systematic issue and blaming Letang for a coach constantly pressing his D to pinch is lazy at best.

His “mistakes are much worse” because of the forum your on. Go read what Nashville fans are saying about Josi and Ellis. They are getting absolutely butchered and they don’t even have the argument that Letang does in terms of production.

Fans want a team like the Pens and Nashville that constantly pressure and push play and then get mad when that team gets taken advantage of in transistion. It’s straight up dumb.

 

[Finesse]

Foul Phil (Garbage Pail Kids) the resemblance is uncanny

Foul indeed. That movie is hard to look at!

 

[Peat]

Kessel was probably pissy about the mere suggestion of being scratched and Sully didn’t want a rift/wanted to trust Phil. By the time the playoffs rolled around it was basically too late to sit him in order to heal him so he played.

Plausible I guess. Particularly since Kessel playing through injuries worked out okay the year before.

Friedman talked about Sullivan’s comments on the last 31 Thoughts podcast and suggested that those comments implied that Sullivan was pissed off at Phil and then went so far as wondering if he’s be dealt, but not saying it was likely. Obviously, dealing Phil is a no-go unless you get an overpayment,

Also plausible. I've long felt the org is a bit more willing to deal Phil than most of the fans are.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Letang is the best defenseman on the team due to his offensive ability and that is not disputable in my opinion.

Still, it is fair to criticize aspects of his performance in the playoffs and it is reasonable to question how he will look in the future as his physical skills decline.

He was as guilty as any other Penguin on those oddman rushes. Nobody on the team is blameless for the defensive breakdowns. I'll also grant that Letang's ice time plays a role as other guys simply don't have as many chances to mess up.

Still, when you are the best d-man on the team, you are gonna be held to a higher standard. A lot of Letang's mistakes were the result of awful reads, not the aggresive nature of the team.

There is no excuse for the right defenseman vacating the center of the ice to cover a player standing still on the blue line at the far left end of the ice.

 

[Gurglesons]

Letang is the best defenseman on the team due to his offensive ability and that is not disputable in my opinion.

Still, it is fair to criticize aspects of his performance in the playoffs and it is reasonable to question how he will look in the future as his physical skills decline.

He was as guilty as any other Penguin on those oddman rushes. Nobody on the team is blameless for the defensive breakdowns. I'll also grant that Letang's ice time plays a role as other guys simply don't have as many chances to mess up.

Still, when you are the best d-man on the team, you are gonna be held to a higher standard. A lot of Letang's mistakes were the result of awful reads, not the aggresive nature of the team.

There is no excuse for the right defenseman vacating the center of the ice to cover a player standing still on the blue line at the far left end of the ice.

All true.

But, when you have people advocating that Jeff Petry and Oskar Klefbom are steady options that would vastly improve our team or that Roman Josi is a dream straight up for Letang it gets a little biased.

Letang didn’t have a great series, he knows that. His trade value for a win now team is not worth trading him. If we are going to take a year off from contention and try to rebuild again on the fly, I understand trading Letang.

I also think Letang is a very night and day player and I think that really amps up the complaints about him. It’s interesting though, because I think the same can be said about Malkin and Kessel and they get nowhere near the criticism.

 

[Pancakes]

It seems like the Pens are likely to see how Letang does after an actual off season of training which is I think a good idea. We all know how much he relies on his athletic gifts. His skating should be great after a full season of training. Entirely possible we see a renewed and more dominant Letang next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

It seems like the Pens are likely to see how Letang does after an actual off season of training which is I think a good idea. We all know how much he relies on his athletic gifts. His skating should be great after a full season of training. Entirely possible we see a renewed and more dominant Letang next year.

I would say his two worst years were 2012 and 2015 in terms of health concerns, play, etc.

He was third in Norris and a Conn Smythe after those two years.

Also, like Kessel. Make major moves after next year.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

All true.

But, when you have people advocating that Jeff Petry and Oskar Klefbom are steady options that would vastly improve our team or that Roman Josi is a dream straight up for Letang it gets a little biased.

Letang didn’t have a great series, he knows that. His trade value for a win now team is not worth trading him. If we are going to take a year off from contention and try to rebuild again on the fly, I understand trading Letang.

I also think Letang is a very night and day player and I think that really amps up the complaints about him. It’s interesting though, because I think the same can be said about Malkin and Kessel and they get nowhere near the criticism.

You are not wrong. People really take it too far.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

It's one a buddy at work gave me when he had a daughter a week ago.

Flor de Cano, Petit Corona. It's fairly light, pairs well with my Macallan Amber.

I've had a few of those. IMO they are hit or miss. Nothing really special.

Glad you enjoyed it though.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Letang staying is a foregone conclusion. Maybe he will rebound next year.

You know what will never change? Olli Maatta skating slow af.

 

[Joejosh999]

Not just 2 on 1s but whiffs on net front covg. GWGs G3 G5.
His awareness is just poor. Deal with it.

 

[mpp9]

I never got the Josi Norris talk. Dude was invisible much of the time against us and was much the same this playoffs.

Winnipeg’s forward group is just better than their D corps.

Nashville’s gotta trade one of their D and bring in another high end forward. Ideally someone better than Johansen.