Post-mortem on the season

[Sidney the Kidney]

Were these off seasons 2012 and 2015?

Interesting how the next two years went..

This is why people accuse you of being obsessed with defending Letang. You literally derailed my original post about defending Murray's play due to his father dying when someone questioned him going forward, and you turned it into a poor Letang post.

Not every single post discussing the defence of another player has to involve you saying "but what about Letang? Huh, huh? WHAT ABOUT LETANG?!?!"

You're becoming the Raggamuffin for Letang.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is why people accuse you of being obsessed with defending Letang. You literally derailed my original post about defending Murray's play due to his father dying when someone questioned him going forward, and you turned it into a poor Letang post.

Not every single post discussing the defence of another player has to involve you saying "but what about Letang? Huh, huh? WHAT ABOUT LETANG?!?!"

You're becoming the Raggamuffin for Letang.

I just think if you’re going to give Murray leeway for his play, it’s kind of silly not to give Letang some after coming off an injury that would end a player’s career ten or fifteen years ago.

Since you’ve been an adamant Letang critic that past few days.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I just think if you’re going to give Murray leeway for his play, it’s kind of silly not to give Letang some after coming off an injury that would end a player’s career ten or fifteen years ago.

Since you’ve been an adamant Letang critic that past few days.

And maybe when I actually post about Letang, you can bring that up. But when my post is about why I think Murray struggled this year, it's irrelevant and is derailing the entire discussion from what we can expect from Murray going forward to now discussing Letang.

 

[BigEezyE22]

When people bitch about Phil not missing a game or 2 in the regular season, remember...the Pens secured a playoff spot by 4 points over Florida. It's not like '17 when they had the 2nd best record league wide.

 

[Joejosh999]

Oh, yeah certainly willing to give MM a break after a rough yr w injuries and losing his Dad.
I do wonder if the "backup" tag was a motivator though.
In any case, he was terrific in Jan up til the concussion.

 

[Joejosh999]

Re Kessel, I do wonder if MS specifically asked him to sit and rest whatever the injury was and Kessel said "not a big deal, I can play" ....leading to Sullivan being furious when the injury worsened and made Phil a non-factor.

 

[Andy99]

Re Kessel, I do wonder if MS specifically asked him to sit and rest whatever the injury was and Kessel said "not a big deal, I can play" ....leading to Sullivan being furious when the injury worsened and made Phil a non-factor.

Could be.... but it’s up to the coach to see that he’s ineffective playing thru it and scratch him for some games.....

 

[vikingGoalie]

Or maybe this season should be taken with a grain of salt given his father died?

I don't know why folks put so little emphasis on that actually contributing to his relatively poor performance (by his standards) than any other reason.

mainly because by all accounts it was an unexpected sudden occurance. If that's true, how do you explain Murray's poor play the several months before his father passed?

I thought before the most recent concussion that Murray started to look a lot better, after he came back from the concussion he looked like he had at the beginning of the season. Inconsistent, focus issues. The good is that alot of the bad goals that went in where technique issues that he can absolutely fix and hopefully will. It's been 2 years now of "SHOOT AT HIS GLOVE HAND!" that all the teams do now on him when they can. What's disconcerting is his glove hand is still alot weaker then other NHL goalies, unless his vision is wacked this is totally fixable! I don't get why he hasn't at least made *some* improvements there. If I was his goalie coach I'd have him play catch with a baseball glove all summer long, I'd have him setup a puck firing machine that is aimed at his glove hand and make him do that 200+ times a day. The biggest thing is his glove positioning in his ready stance, and how he defaults to a low glove butterfly position whenever he goes down. Still very fixable things.

If murray is up/down next season we have big problems. but let's not worry about that unless it occurs...

 

[Turin]

Could be.... but it’s up to the coach to see that he’s ineffective playing thru it and scratch him for some games.....

Kessel was probably pissy about the mere suggestion of being scratched and Sully didn’t want a rift/wanted to trust Phil. By the time the playoffs rolled around it was basically too late to sit him in order to heal him so he played.

Friedman talked about Sullivan’s comments on the last 31 Thoughts podcast and suggested that those comments implied that Sullivan was pissed off at Phil and then went so far as wondering if he’s be dealt, but not saying it was likely. Obviously, dealing Phil is a no-go unless you get an overpayment,

 

[DeadPuckEra]

What are we going to run every player Mike Sullivan doesn’t agree with out of town now?

 

[bathroomSTAAL]

There were rumors of Phil being traded last year too after back to back Cups. The media is obsessed with him and loves to stir shit. You don't trade a 92-point winger who played at a Conn Smythe level for 2 playoffs with a 6.8 cap hit.

 

[HuskerTornado]

And to think about it...if Letang didn't give away Game 5 in the 3rd, we most likely would win that game and would be up 3-2 in the series and next it either advancing to the next round or Game 7.

Simon deserves just as much as Letang for Game 5.

Also, if you want to play that game:

If the 2 goal reviews are correctly called in game 2, at worst, that game is going OT. And Wilson should have been tossed for his hit on Dumo, causing them to double shift in his absence.

If Wilson is tossed in game 3 (or is suspended justly for his hit on Dumo in G2), he can't trip Maatta to set up the 2 on 1 GWG, and who knows what happens.

It's why I was saying before game 6, this series was weird. Could have potentially been a Penguins sweep (or Caps, for that matter), but the game is a matter of one mistake here or there, one blown call here or there, a quarter of an inch here or there. It's why the playoffs are such a stressful time for all involved.

What sorta annoyed me about losing in OT in game 6 was the whole Carlson running Murray thing.

Shouldn't he have gotten 2 for goalie interference???

Apparently, Murray saw him coming, they "locked eyes." Play on. lol

 

[HuskerTornado]

Phil won't be dealt, just like Letang won't be dealt.

 

[PensPlz]

Phil won't be dealt, just like Letang won't be dealt.

True, but won't be for lack of trying though.

I think they absolutely dangle Letang to some teams.

 

[Pancakes]

Phil won't be dealt, just like Letang won't be dealt.

I do agree with Yohe's take though that a second consecutive early exit/bad performance in the playoffs would likely spell Phil's demise as a Pen. Not saying I agree with doing that mind you, but I could see it.

As for this off season, I doubt JR makes any major moves unless his socks get knocked off by an offer. No reason to blow things up after one bad playoffs coming off two cups.

 

[cygnus47]

True, but won't be for lack of trying though.

I think they absolutely dangle Letang to some teams.

I doubt it greatly. Unless we trade him for Karlsson, which is super duper unlikely. We still need a #1 if Letang's not here, no-one is trading a #1 that we want. I'm sure JR would answer calls, but unless someone blows the doors off it would be a mistake. Not to mention the Letang griping is way overblown.

 

[HuskerTornado]

I do agree with Yohe's take though that a second consecutive early exit/bad performance in the playoffs would likely spell Phil's demise as a Pen. Not saying I agree with doing that mind you, but I could see it.

As for this off season, I doubt JR makes any major moves unless his socks get knocked off by an offer. No reason to blow things up after one bad playoffs coming off two cups.

That's maybe the most obvious statement ever from Yohe, though, lol. Obviously, one time is potentially a fluke, especially with injury/injuries almost surely being the root of his production drop. Two times and you start trending. Unless you are trading Phil for Filip, lol, you are losing any trade with him.

It's the same issue with Letang. Sure you could open cap space, sure they won without him in 2017, but unless you are talking about a multi team deal where a guy like Karlsson is coming, that move won't get made. And they'll likely want to give Kris an extra summer to get right after the neck surgery, anyway, before making a final decision.

 

[cygnus47]

That's maybe the most obvious statement ever from Yohe, though, lol. Obviously, one time is potentially a fluke, especially with injury/injuries almost surely being the root of his production drop. Two times and you start trending. Unless you are trading Phil for Filip, lol, you are losing any trade with him.

It's the same issue with Letang. Sure you could open cap space, sure they won without him in 2017, but unless you are talking about a multi team deal where a guy like Karlsson is coming, that move won't get made. And they'll likely want to give Kris an extra summer to get right after the neck surgery, anyway, before making a final decision.

I really hope management doesn't read too much into 2017. 2016 is the year we have to model.

The notion of Phil suddenly not being a playoff performer after one injury-ruined playoffs is so sad. Dude could have easily been a Conn Smythe winner and has done nothing but score in the playoffs his whole career.

The only way I'm trading Phil in the next 2 years is if Sprong absolutely lights it up and someone awesome becomes available. PPG playoff performers don't grow on trees.

 

[PensPlz]

I doubt it greatly. Unless we trade him for Karlsson, which is super duper unlikely. We still need a #1 if Letang's not here, no-one is trading a #1 that we want. I'm sure JR would answer calls, but unless someone blows the doors off it would be a mistake. Not to mention the Letang griping is way overblown.

We won a cup without him. Defense by committee works just as well as having a bonafide #1. I think Vegas is going to prove that again.

However, it's questionable Letang is a #1 anymore. He's a different player after his injury. He needs to fix his game to accommodate being a 31 year old with health issues. If he can't do that, then we best be moving on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

• Stubborn coach lost his babysitter, new babysitter sucks.
• Pretty boy was over played even when he sucked, defense coach sucks.
• Narrow headed goalie lost a buddy, got a new one, stubborn coach misplayed both goalies, lost new buddy, had rotating buddies, shit went to hell.
• Got a new toy, new toy got damaged, we blamed new toy for not being like brand new...idiocy ensued.
• Sheahan is good, people whined, I and others defended, we won you all suck you jack asses, own up.
• The dutchman didn't get enough of a chance because of...swagger.

Now back to sipping my scotch and enjoying my cigar while I enjoy some nice late evening cool breeze and the smell of BBQ.

 

[cygnus47]

We won a cup without him. Defense by committee works just as well as having a bonafide #1. I think Vegas is going to prove that again.

However, it's questionable Letang is a #1 anymore. He's a different player after his injury. He needs to fix his game to accommodate being a 31 year old with health issues. If he can't do that, then we best be moving on.

2017 was a fluke. We got outplayed for the most part by CBJ and completely crushed by Washington. That we won was up to ridiculous goaltending and super timely scoring. Ottawa was a joke and we barely beat them and Nashville was too injured and inexperienced to compete. 2017 isn't repeatable and isn't a recipe for success.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Why do we wanna deal Phil??

 

[Andy99]

• Stubborn coach lost his babysitter, new babysitter sucks.
• Pretty boy was over played even when he sucked, defense coach sucks.
• Narrow headed goalie lost a buddy, got a new one, stubborn coach misplayed both goalies, lost new buddy, had rotating buddies, **** went to hell.
• Got a new toy, new toy got damaged, we blamed new toy for not being like brand new...idiocy ensued.
• Sheahan is good, people whined, I and others defended, we won you all suck you jack asses, own up.
• The dutchman didn't get enough of a chance because of...swagger.

Now back to sipping my scotch and enjoying my cigar while I enjoy some nice late evening cool breeze and the smell of BBQ.

I don’t know...sounds like you hit the Jack a lot earlier, and weren’t sipping....

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

• Stubborn coach lost his babysitter, new babysitter sucks.
• Pretty boy was over played even when he sucked, defense coach sucks.
• Narrow headed goalie lost a buddy, got a new one, stubborn coach misplayed both goalies, lost new buddy, had rotating buddies, **** went to hell.
• Got a new toy, new toy got damaged, we blamed new toy for not being like brand new...idiocy ensued.
• Sheahan is good, people whined, I and others defended, we won you all suck you jack asses, own up.
• The dutchman didn't get enough of a chance because of...swagger.

Now back to sipping my scotch and enjoying my cigar while I enjoy some nice late evening cool breeze and the smell of BBQ.

What kinda cigar my dude??

I haven't had a cigar in months.

 

[PensPlz]

2017 was a fluke. We got outplayed for the most part by CBJ and completely crushed by Washington. That we won was up to ridiculous goaltending and super timely scoring. Ottawa was a joke and we barely beat them and Nashville was too injured and inexperienced to compete. 2017 isn't repeatable and isn't a recipe for success.

Stopped reading when you said we got outplayed by CBJ