Post-Game Talk: Post game Leaf/Jets

[Whileee]

Just some perspective...

Very early in the season and the Jets look quite rusty. I don't expect Ehlers to be this bad very often this season, as an example.

They will look a lot better with their full D.

It's a bit early to assess this team.

Heinola and Samberg need a look in the lineup. There's just no upside to playing Beaulieu over a young player.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

The time to play him was right after that amazing AHL season. He earned it at that point it’s not like we were talent rich at D. At this point he’s probably done as an NHL D but the indictment should be that we had a dominant AHL D and we jerked him around for two years and basically wrecked his development.

Eventually some of you need to realize that the player just isn't good enough. The petan syndrome. Dominate the A.. do nothing in the big leagues.

Niku just isn't good enough. That's on Niku. AHL d man of the year means absolutely nothing.

 

[AKAChip]

Eventually some of you need to realize that the player just isn't good enough. The petan syndrome. Dominate the A.. do nothing in the big leagues.

Niku just isn't good enough. That's on Niku. AHL d man of the year means absolutely nothing.

You’re right, Niku probably isn’t good enough at this point. But a number of his best years were spent either wallowing in the AHL (which is not a particularly good development league) or in and out (mostly out) of the NHL lineup. You can only improve your game so much in the off-season.

The fact of the matter is, coaches (especially ours) are averse to the “risk” that comes with inexperienced players when the true risk is playing negative impact scrubs in their place. Even if Niku got all that time and it went nowhere, would he have been demonstrably worse than guys like Sbisa, Bitteto, Dahlstrom or whichever other bum we had in that role?

 

[29from27and55]

I'm out in Alberta...

I choose to put in the extra effort to see and work with My clients...

I hedged on catching the game late...

Seems I showed up to play and hedging on the Jets was the right choice...

I missed almost the whole game...

Is it fair to say the Jets by and large didn't show up to play... ?

if you watched the 1st and 2nd period you would have thought shief turned into eakins

 

[JetsFan815]

Kane was a pretty good threat in year one! 30 goals, Ladd was the #2 goal scorer!

Buff and Enstrom were both better D than anyone we have now, Hainsey and Bogo were solid as was Oduya!

Ladd and Wheeler were 25 and Little was 23, the line was solid!

And 2011 Burmi was not bad and Wellwood provided some nice depth scoring. If goaltending was held equal, I would not be surprised at all if the 2011 Jets beat the Jets of the last 18 months.

 

[Tommigun]

Stanley looked good I think. What happened to Poolman?

DeMelo is really doing the team a disservice. He should be on the ice. Yes he had a baby but so do people in occupations with less critical impacts, without taking half a year off.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

You’re right, Niku probably isn’t good enough at this point. But a number of his best years were spent either wallowing in the AHL (which is not a particularly good development league) or in and out (mostly out) of the NHL lineup. You can only improve you game so much in the off-season.

Fact is... He's piss poor defensively and doesn't bring enough O. Guy was a 7th Rd pick for a reason.. had a good year really in the A.. looks more comfortable in the A.. probably cuz he's smaller. Think his size tho isn't a problem.. think his D game isn't good enough and I don't think him playing earlier changes it. Think all it changes is he isn't given a new contract this past off season.

 

[AKAChip]

Just some perspective...

Very early in the season and the Jets look quite rusty. I don't expect Ehlers to be this bad very often this season, as an example.

They will look a lot better with their full D.

It's a bit early to assess this team.

Heinola and Samberg need a look in the lineup. There's just no upside to playing Beaulieu over a young player.

Do you genuinely see Beaulieu leaving the lineup for either of those two guys? He certainly feels like the kind of guy who has an unearned locked spot in the lineup.

 

[29from27and55]

What good is pp2 when PP1 does nothing all 2 minutes. The devotion to scheif and Wheeler is insane tho.

the thing that really pisses me off.. is when there having a bad game he doesnt reward players who are playing well. he just goes right back to force feeding 55/26 minute after minute until they create a goal against. like the 2nd goal today just lazy d play by them both and marner taps one in,

 

[LowLefty]

Game two and the lines are already in the blender - injuries this early kill you and it showed tonight.
Throwing Copp and Frenchie into the top 6 mix will have an impact - and not a good one.
Then there's our D without Poolman and Demelo - just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.

The result was about as bad as expected - we have zero depth. But I do understand why Mo is not bringing in more of our up and comers into games like this - that would be the wrong way to introduce your best young assets into the NHL. Stanley is the exception since he's a little longer in the tooth.

Hopefully we can work more youth into the mix as the season progresses and our vets settle in - that will allow at least some hope.
Our D needs to be better (add the youth) and our forwards need more time together (especially the complete top 6) -

 

[Gabe Kupari]

And 2011 Burmi was not bad and Wellwood provided some nice depth scoring. If goaltending was held equal, I would not be surprised at all if the 2011 Jets beat the Jets of the last 18 months.

That team would certainly out work this one.
This whole downfall started around the time Wheeler started getting more pissy with the media for valid criticisms

 

[AKAChip]

Fact is... He's piss poor defensively and doesn't bring enough O. Guy was a 7th Rd pick for a reason.. had a good year really in the A.. looks more comfortable in the A.. probably cuz he's smaller. Think his size tho isn't a problem.. think his D game isn't good enough and I don't think him playing earlier changes it. Think all it changes is he isn't given a new contract this past off season.

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round pick. Byfuglien was an 8th or something. Writing a guy off because of draft position is a fruitless endeavour and is part of why the Jets haven’t developed any half decent offensive talent that wasn’t a first round pick.

And that’s not even the point here. The point is that Niku wasn’t given an opportunity when it was best for his development to do so and now he’s probably a lost cause. You can’t yank a guy in and out of the lineup and give him exactly 0 PP time (a place where he historically thrives) before the age of 24 and then get mad when he hasn’t lived up to expectations. Niku absolutely owns some of this but there was a very significant period of time where it was clear no matter what he did, Maurice wasn’t going to put him in the lineup.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

You’re right, Niku probably isn’t good enough at this point. But a number of his best years were spent either wallowing in the AHL (which is not a particularly good development league) or in and out (mostly out) of the NHL lineup. You can only improve your game so much in the off-season.

The fact of the matter is, coaches (especially ours) are averse to the “risk” that comes with inexperienced players when the true risk is playing negative impact scrubs in their place. Even if Niku got all that time and it went nowhere, would he have been demonstrably worse than guys like Sbisa, Bitteto, Dahlstrom or whichever other bum we had in that role?

Turns out yes he would be worse. Niku likely clears waivers.

 

[AKAChip]

Game two and the lines are already in the blender - injuries this early kill you and it showed tonight.
Throwing Copp and Frenchie into the top 6 mix will have an impact - and not a good one.
Then there's our D without Poolman and Demelo - just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.

The result was about as bad as expected - we have zero depth. But I do understand why Mo is not bringing in more of our up and comers into games like this - that would be the wrong way to introduce your best young assets into the NHL. Stanley is the exception since he's a little longer in the tooth.

Hopefully we can work more youth into the mix as the season progresses and our vets settle in - that will allow at least some hope.
Our D needs to be better (add the youth) and our forwards need more time together (especially the complete top 6) -

When Samberg is a 24 year old rookie who has already stagnated, we won’t be saying how he shouldn’t have been rushed into the NHL at age 21. Right now he’s playing for nobody. This is not how you develop talent in the modern NHL.

 

[HellebuyckOurSaviour]

Lol ah yes, over at the Leafs board I think they are partying cause to me it seems they won the Stanley Cup again tonight. Weird how they always win the cup when the beat a Canadian team in the regular season.

 

[AKAChip]

Turns out yes he would be worse. Niku likely clears waivers.

You’re missing the point.

 

[BoneDocUK]

5

Do you genuinely see Beaulieu leaving the lineup for either of those two guys? He certainly feels like the kind of guy who has an unearned locked spot in the lineup.

He fought a guy once, and you can’t teach size.

You can’t teach skill either, after a certain point, it turns out — but see points 1 and 2.

I think we see one of Samberg or VilleTK once DeMelo is back in the lineup but maybe not both at once.

 

[Teemusalami204]

When Samberg is a 24 year old rookie who has already stagnated, we won’t be saying how he shouldn’t have been rushed into the NHL at age 21. Right now he’s playing for nobody. This is not how you develop talent in the modern NHL.

Chevy needs those elcs to slide.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Patric Hornqvist was a 7th round pick. Byfuglien was an 8th or something. Writing a guy off because of draft position is a fruitless endeavour and is part of why the Jets haven’t developed any half decent offensive talent that wasn’t a first round pick.

And that’s not even the point here. The point is that Niku wasn’t given an opportunity when it was best for his development to do so and now he’s probably a lost cause. You can’t yank a guy in and out of the lineup and give him exactly 0 PP time (a place where he historically thrives) before the age of 24 and then get mad when he hasn’t lived up to expectations. Niku absolutely owns some of this but there was a very significant period of time where it was clear no matter what he did, Maurice wasn’t going to put him in the lineup.

Maybe the reason Maurice didn't play him was because Niku just wasn't ready and isn't NHL ready and never will be. Maybe he saw him getting constantly owned in practice like he has for what 20 NHL games now.

 

[Scheifele55]

The time to play him was right after that amazing AHL season. He earned it at that point it’s not like we were talent rich at D. At this point he’s probably done as an NHL D but the indictment should be that we had a dominant AHL D and we jerked him around for two years and basically wrecked his development.

Spending more time in the AHL doesn't often wreck development. I was greatly on his bandwagon this year but so far the results are not there and he looks lost against NHL competition. He has been mediocre defensively.

 

[LowLefty]

Sami Niku is NOT looking good out there. I blame Niku for not taking his game to the next level. He has had 2 years since his breakout season in the AHL to take his game to the next level and hasn't.

He doesn't have a clue how to play the game in his own end and doesn't appear to care -
He was jumping in on the rush every chance he got and was caught up ice on most shifts - but once in his own end, he disappeared.
Not an ounce of "physical" in his game - I get that he will never be a grinder - but he can't even contain a small forward.
He is not an NHL defensemen and it has nothing to do with talent - he simply has no interest in playing "defense"

 

[Buffdog]

Maurice on Stanley's game:

So who WAS the weak link?

*cough cough niku cough booloo cough*

 

[Jets]

Makes no sense. We supposedly have one of the best and deepest forward groups in the league, but the minutes look like we're a one or two line team...
Paul would've been great coaching the Thrashers lineup we had when they first came here. GST as his third line and then basically one top LLW line to run 25 mins a night.

I guess in a way its a culture thing from the top. If we're forcing ourselves to dress Thompson as the 4C then we're basically handcuffing our 4th line to <10 mins a night, which leaves no choice but to play Scheifele 25+ mins.

 

[None]

Heinola and Samberg need a look in the lineup. There's just no upside to playing Beaulieu over a young player.

Only logical reasons to me are
1) Someone's job is at risk with this season. It may not be Maurice, and it may not be Chevy, but Maurice is playing it the "safe" way that most coaches would.
2) Maurice being the Maurice @Guerzy originally cautioned about. This could very well tie into #1 but I think it could be that he legitimately thinks these are the current best players he has.


I hope Heinola and Samberg take their spots and don't let go. Force Maurice to keep them in after they get their chance.

Edit: Either way it's too early in the season for me to panic and get too worked up about this stuff. The team we saw tonight is hopefully the worst we'll see this year.

 

[AKAChip]

Maybe the reason Maurice didn't play him was because Niku just wasn't ready and isn't NHL ready and never will be. Maybe he saw him getting constantly owned in practice like he has for what 20 NHL games now.

Unfortunately, we’ll never know how he would have fared as a regular NHLer at age 22 after winning AHL defenceman of the year. You can’t possibly think that Maurice put him in the best position to succeed. He’s all too willing to play guys like Beaulieu on a nightly basis who have never proven they can be a net positive player in the NHL.

The bottom line is, at 22 Niku was an asset that any NHL team would have been happy to have. Now he’s damaged goods without really being given a reasonable shot. At some point when do you blame a coach/organization for turning a good young asset into nothing?