POLL: Who has out performed their contract

[notbias]

You'll be shocked to know that some people don't cheer for stats. They like players based on so many other variables. Why exactly can't I like Zack Hyman?

You can like him, he is just one of the most overrated Leafs in recent memory.

People tend to like him cause he is a terrible skater so he flails a lot and it looks like he is working harder than everyone else.

I understand it, he just wasn't great.

 

[PromisedLand]

I don’t think we got goalied, I think in general goal scoring hasn’t been the issue. I think outside of Boston 2019 and Columbus 2020 where we got blown out in the deciding game. We’ve scored enough to win, whether that was from depth guys or our star guys. But goaltending shits the bed. Montreal is a prime example of that. Jack Campbell let’s in a few shitty goals in games 5 & 6. Games that had no business going to OT.

Honestly I don’t give a shit what Mess posts either. It’s always lacking context.

Things happen in hockey; the team has to overcome hurdles. Once gets 7 chances to win the series; in the 7 years Leafs have squandered 6 of those.

Leafs were up 3-1 in teh sereis against the habs and still managed to lose the series.

I don't agree with your stance fully; but even for the sake of argument lets suppose I agreed with it; do you think quality goal tending is going to be cheap? How the hell are Leafs supposed to afford quality goal tending when they spend preimum cap dolalrs on 4 forwards?

Leafs in a nutshell have been the pick below:

 

[Ianturnedbull]

You can like him, he is just one of the most overrated Leafs in recent memory.

People tend to like him cause he is a terrible skater so he flails a lot and it looks like he is working harder than everyone else.

I understand it, he just wasn't great.

Your quarrel is not with me. It's with Mess.

Hyman could fall on his face next season i will still talk about him and how i miss him. After all this is a fan forum. A certain amount of being a fan has to be emotional.

How does this make any sense:

"people tend to like him because he's a terrible skater..."??

No he's not great in the sense of being compared to Roald Dahl or Wayne Gretzky.


I think Mess really struck a chord though. Don't fall for it next time.

 

[nuck]

None of the above.

 

[francis246]

Things happen in hockey; the team has to overcome hurdles. Once gets 7 chances to win the series; in the 7 years Leafs have squandered 6 of those.

Leafs were up 3-1 in teh sereis against the habs and still managed to lose the series.

I don't agree with your stance fully; but even for the sake of argument lets suppose I agreed with it; do you think quality goal tending is going to be cheap? How the hell are Leafs supposed to afford quality goal tending when they spend preimum cap dolalrs on 4 forwards?

Leafs in a nutshell have been the pick below:

We don’t need expensive goaltending we need GOOD goaltending lol. Leafs need to try and develop a guy instead of trying to sign one or they can try and trade for one but they just need to identify the right one. Invest in Woll is my guess.

I know you probably don’t want to hear this but you have to get lucky to win. Yes you also have to execute but winning the cup takes execution and a lot of luck for things to fall your way. Leafs have had either the last 7 years.

 

[LeafEgo]

Post ELC contracts, where the team has all the leverage, are more about not giving up competitive advantage against the other teams - paying at most the established market rate.

J Rob, Stutzle, Makar, Hughes etc. are all going to outplay their dollar points vs the league by a good margin, but they were fair contracts in practice.

M&M are worth their price points today, but what is egregious is Ottawa will be paying Stutzle 8.5M for eight years in our division while we paid Mitch 11M for six years. There are endless examples.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I still don’t get how Tavares underperformed he’s been PPG over the contract. That’s crazy good. I don’t think you can really find a UFA that has come close to that type of production in the salary cap era.

The signing of Tavares has maybe put our cap in a bit of a tough spot but he’s pretty much lived up to the contract. Seeing as he was the first, 1st overall pick center to hit UFA in the cap era. He’s having better seasons in Toronto than on the Island.

Still not ppg, although close, but more and more dependent on his PP points.

On a crappy Islanders team he was 0.93 ppg. If you omit his rookie season, he was 0.97. Omitting his first two seasons, he was 0.98 with the Islanders.

On a much better Leafs team, playing almost exclusively with either Marner or Nylander, he's 0.98 ppg.

How anyone can think he’s "having better seasons in Toronto than on the Island" is beyond me.

 

[Aashir]

Still not ppg, although close, but more and more dependent on his PP points.

On a crappy Islanders team he was 0.93 ppg. If you omit his rookie season, he was 0.97. Omitting his first two seasons, he was 0.98 with the Islanders.

On a much better Leafs team, playing almost exclusively with either Marner or Nylander, he's 0.98 ppg.

How anyone can think he’s "having better seasons in Toronto than on the Island" is beyond me.

That too in a much higher scoring environment

We are seeing players consistently hit 120+ the last 5 years hell this year we saw a 150 point player

He has been fair type of value his first year, that’s it. He was T-15 for points, still not great, but he was still a top player in the league, it’s been downhill since then

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Rielly probably outperformed his old contract.

But I don't think you'll find too many fans who think he's a $7.5M+ defenseman. The rest of these guys might have, maybe, lived up to their contracts. None of them vastly outperformed it though.

We all know the Leafs overpaid and assigned far too much cap to their core four forwards.

Creating a massive and unhealthy salary divide. Caused by the unfair equity distribution on the roster. Toronto represents the gold standard of an extreme income disparity.

I doubt any greater exists in the NHL.

They put themselves into a no win situation. None of them were ever gonna outperform those salaries. Most fans have a hard time even justifying them as fair.

Let lone thinking any of them were underpaid for their services rendered.

 

[thewave]

Nylander over.
Rielly is spot on
Matthews is spot on or maybe a little rich
Marner under
JT under

None of the above.

40 goal scorer on the second line at 6.9m please check yourself on that one lol.

 

[Shooter2x]

In the regular season they all lived up to their cap hits with the exception of Tavares, but with Tavares we already know we're paying the "got for zero assets" free agency premium so that's whatever.

Overall Nylander takes this poll easyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[JKG33]

How anyone can look at Matthews playoff performances relative to his contract peers and think that it's acceptable is beyond me.

The only reason Nylander's cap hit is reasonable is because of the weird cap loophole that was opened when he held out. His cap hit would've been closer to $8m otherwise, a marker he really only lived up to last season.

The correct answer begins and ends with Reilly. His contract is neither an overpayment nor discount for the regular season. But unlike the rest of these dipshits he actually steps up and over produces in the playoffs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

1) Tavares (11 AAV)
2) Marner (11 AAV)
3) Nylander (7 AAV)
4) Rielly (5 AAV and now 7.5 AAV)
5) Matthews (11.6 AAV and moving forward 13.25 AAV)

this looks worse than the Black Hawks cap structure that KILLED their team AFTER winning Lord Stanley.

what a mess.

 

[tmlms13]

None of the above ..

My answer is Zach Hyman .... Leafs refused to pay him $5.5 mil and now the Oilers are reaping the rewards.

View attachment 739632

Hyman during the regular season last year produced similar regular season stats to Nylander, Matthews and Tavares for much less cap ...

Look at Hyman playoff numbers 14 goals 27 points in the past 2 playoffs.

View attachment 739634

Hyman at 1/2 the cap hit would have been the best bang for your cap buck.

I could score 83 points playing in the Oilers top 6

 

[notDatsyuk]

How anyone can look at Matthews playoff performances relative to his contract peers and think that it's acceptable is beyond me.

The only reason Nylander's cap hit is reasonable is because of the weird cap loophole that was opened when he held out. His cap hit would've been closer to $8m otherwise, a marker he really only lived up to last season.

The correct answer begins and ends with Reilly. His contract is neither an overpayment nor discount for the regular season. But unlike the rest of these dipshits he actually steps up and over produces in the playoffs.

No. Nylander got paid $6.9 and the cap hit was 6.9. The AAV of $11 is just a meaningless paper number. If you only worked one week in the year and made $1,000, your AAV would be $52,000, but that's not the number you pay taxes on.

 

[JKG33]

No. Nylander got paid $6.9 and the cap hit was 6.9. The AAV of $11 is just a meaningless paper number. If you only worked one week in the year and made $1,000, your AAV would be $52,000, but that's not the number you pay taxes on.

This has nothing to do with taxes. I'm pretty sure had he signed that number prior to the start of the season his cap hit would've been higher over the whole deal.

Instead the Leafs took a higher cap hit in year 1 and then it was lowered for the remaining years

 

[Mess]

I could score 83 points playing in the Oilers top 6

Interesting considering Hyman playing with Matthews @ $11.634 and Marner @ $10.9 mil couldn't come near that, but Leafs have no problem paying Matthews more than McDavid and Marner more than Draisaitl.

 

[hamzarocks]

Nylander easily, maybe Rielly. Big no to JT, about 2-3M under perform, Matthews/Marner about 1M under perform.

Rielly outperformed his 5M contract by a lot

But at 7.5M his first year he was about 2M overpaid in the reg and then really good come playoffs

Overall, Rielly is a price pt he can reach or outperform at his peak. So not to bad

If he had gotten 9M -9.5M like a Nurse or Hamilton we would be very f***ed

Tavares is 3M underperform
Matthews is 1M underperform for his 4 years at 11.634
Marner same 1M underperform
Nylander had an atrocious 2019 and an elite 2023, 2020-2022 I'd say he was 1M overperform on his deal

Voted Nylander only

 

[hamzarocks]

I still don’t get how Tavares underperformed he’s been PPG over the contract. That’s crazy good. I don’t think you can really find a UFA that has come close to that type of production in the salary cap era.

The signing of Tavares has maybe put our cap in a bit of a tough spot but he’s pretty much lived up to the contract. Seeing as he was the first, 1st overall pick center to hit UFA in the cap era. He’s having better seasons in Toronto than on the Island.

He really isnt having anywhere near the seasons he had on the isles iver here

League scoring is super up and he is still below ppg in his leaf tenure vs when on the isles he had multiple elite ppg seasons when that meant a lot, was 2 time hart finalist

Erik Karlsson at 11.5M is a gross deal despite him having a top 10 ever offensive season by a defenseman and winning the Norris last year

Tavares is 2-3M overpaid in the regular season and 5M overpaid in the playoffs (brings the value of a 6M 2C rather than a 11M elite 1C with his ~58 pt pace over his leaf tenure)

Nylander over.
Rielly is spot on
Matthews is spot on or maybe a little rich
Marner under
JT under


40 goal scorer on the second line at 6.9m please check yourself on that one lol.

Nylander is a 1 time 40 goal scorer, his entire contract tenure hes like 72 pts per 82 games so he his right around his 7M cap hit.

Playoffs he elevates so can say hes 1M underpaid overall but reg season wise hes not a consisten 40 goal/90 pt player on this contract

 

[tmlms13]

Interesting considering Hyman playing with Matthews @ $11.634 and Marner @ $10.9 mil couldn't come near that, but Leafs have no problem paying Matthews more than McDavid and Marner more than Draisaitl.

Zach got #1 PP time in EDM, he didn't in TO

 

[Mess]

Zach got #1 PP time in EDM, he didn't in TO

Yup that is because of our coach and his misuse .

Edmonton has shown how effective Hyman can be in the #1 PP unit in the NHL, or is he the one that helps make it so?

You have to admit his 11 goals in 16 playoff games in 2022 was very impressive and something all our $11 mil players couldn't touch, in fact all 4 of or Core 4 combined for 12 goals that year.

That is how you validate a contract !!

Give me Hyman at $5.5 mil over Tavares at $11 mil ever time for 1/2 the cap hit,.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Can't really answer the poll as it's kinda a fluid topic, so I'll state it like this:

Matthews- Overperformed one regular season, underperformed in all playoffs.
Nylander- Overperformed last regular season- underperformed in playoffs.
Marner- Underperformed across the board.
Tavares- about even in regular season, underperformed in playoffs.
Reiily- Underperformed @$7.5 million in regular season, overperformed in playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Edmonton has shown how effective Hyman can be in the #1 PP unit in the NHL, or is he the one that helps make it so?

Edmonton has shown how effective McDavid can be on the PP, and how much he lifts the other players on his unit.
Hyman is most definitely not the one that makes Edmonton's PP good. In fact, he was the worst producer on that unit by quite a bit.

 

[Arzak]

Two votes for Mitch and concidently I can only imagine two posters voting this way.

 

[Madap]

How many threads do we need for the same 5 people to complain about the Leafs? Pick one and stick to it please.