POLL: Who has out performed their contract

[TheTotalPackage]

Nylander and Rielly.

Man, looking at the two contracts Rielly has signed with the Leafs, we've been getting him below his value. Love him.

 

[QJo]

Thread title: which teams are in the NHL?

Thread poll: only pick 2, so we can see what the fanbase thinks.

 

[Mess]

None of the above ..

My answer is Zach Hyman .... Leafs refused to pay him $5.5 mil and now the Oilers are reaping the rewards.

Hyman during the regular season last year produced similar regular season stats to Nylander, Matthews and Tavares for much less cap ...

Look at Hyman playoff numbers 14 goals 27 points in the past 2 playoffs.

Hyman at 1/2 the cap hit would have been the best bang for your cap buck.

 

[WillyC]

Joe Woll

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander outperformed.
Tavares underperformed.
The rest probably performed to their contracts, but certainly nothing more.

 

[francis246]

Nylander outperformed.
Tavares underperformed.
The rest probably performed to their contracts, but certainly nothing more.

I still don’t get how Tavares underperformed he’s been PPG over the contract. That’s crazy good. I don’t think you can really find a UFA that has come close to that type of production in the salary cap era.

The signing of Tavares has maybe put our cap in a bit of a tough spot but he’s pretty much lived up to the contract. Seeing as he was the first, 1st overall pick center to hit UFA in the cap era. He’s having better seasons in Toronto than on the Island.

 

[IPS]

None of the above ..

My answer is Zach Hyman .... Leafs refused to pay him $5.5 mil and now the Oilers are reaping the rewards.

View attachment 739632

Hyman during the regular season last year produced similar regular season stats to Nylander, Matthews and Tavares for much less cap ...

Look at Hyman playoff numbers 14 goals 27 points in the past 2 playoffs.

View attachment 739634

Hyman at 1/2 the cap hit would have been the best bang for your cap buck.

Hyman is not putting up those numbers with the leafs and you probably know this.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

None of the above ..

My answer is Zach Hyman .... Leafs refused to pay him $5.5 mil and now the Oilers are reaping the rewards.

View attachment 739632

Hyman during the regular season last year produced similar regular season stats to Nylander, Matthews and Tavares for much less cap ...

Look at Hyman playoff numbers 14 goals 27 points in the past 2 playoffs.

View attachment 739634

Hyman at 1/2 the cap hit would have been the best bang for your cap buck.

Damn I miss Hyman.

 

[Legion34]

Every one but Tavares s

 

[Sypher04]

Did i tell people who to vote for? If one doesn’t like the premise of the poll one can start their own or ignore the thread

I don’t post on threads I don’t agree with; I just don’t try to show how “awesome” I am by pointing fingers.



I did not even vote in the poll; neither did my post say X is better

I don’t agree with anything you post anyway so you can hold that line of thought for your own views for sure

You inserted your opinion into the poll structure, which sways the potential results and is not how polls should be made. You decided for everyone in this thread that your opinion that 3 players can’t have out played their contract is gospel which it most certainly is not.

This is precisely why I am only allowing 2 votes.

Some here will vote all 5 which is absolutely ridiculous and outside the realm of possibility.

You gotta pick only 2.

I don't agree that Matthews has met expectations of his contract or outperformed it. The favoritism of player has to take a back seat and TEAM has to take the front seat.

How does one explain that 3 guys outperform their contracts who are also one of the biggest cap hits in comparison to their team mates; but the team has only one 1st round win to show for it?

Being "outgoalied" is not an acceptable answer as far as I am concerned.

Great you don’t agree. My opinion that 3 guys DID out perform their deals is no less valid.

 

[PromisedLand]

You inserted your opinion into the poll structure, which sways the potential results and is not how polls should be made. You decided for everyone in this thread that your opinion that 3 players can’t have out played their contract is gospel which it most certainly is not.



Great you don’t agree. My opinion that 3 guys DID out perform their deals is no less valid.

How is it that I inserted my opinion into the poll structure? because I restricted it to only have 2 options at max?

Here is the logic:

1) If Leafs had had playoff success threads like this would not even exist
2) If Leafs had had playoff success there wouldn't be an outcry from fans regarding AAVs and what not
3) If the claim is that at least 3 out of 5 performed or outperformed their contract then whats the justification for not having playoff success?

One can "claim" whatever they want; but claim has to be supported by objective results. There is a post where someone was claiming that all 5 have outperformed their contracts; if true; what are the results?

making a claim is one thing; but supporting the claim with meaningful objective analysis/results is another thing.

 

[Sypher04]

How is it that I inserted my opinion into the poll structure? because I restricted it to only have 2 options at max?

Here is the logic:

1) If Leafs had had playoff success threads like this would not even exist
2) If Leafs had had playoff success there wouldn't be an outcry from fans regarding AAVs and what not
3) If the claim is that at least 3 out of 5 performed or outperformed their contract then whats the justification for not having playoff success?

One can "claim" whatever they want; but claim has to be supported by objective results. There is a post where someone was claiming that all 5 have outperformed their contracts; if true; what are the results?

making a claim is one thing; but supporting the claim with meaningful objective analysis/results is another thing.

You’ve made the claim they haven’t out performed them and provided no real supporting evidence either. How is that different. And yes, by limiting it to two choices and clearly stating you did so because you believe that 3 cannot have done so with our lack of playoff success, you have by definition inserted your opinion into the poll structure.

And I can support all 3 cases. I’m not seeing a lot of point in doing so however, as I know I’m not going to change your opinion

 

[PromisedLand]

You’ve made the claim they haven’t out performed them and provided no real supporting evidence either. How is that different. And yes, by limiting it to two choices and clearly stating you did so because you believe that 3 cannot have done so with our lack of playoff success, you have by definition inserted your opinion into the poll structure.

And I can support all 3 cases. I’m not seeing a lot of point in doing so however, as I know I’m not going to change your opinion

Leafs have won only 1 round "once"; I think that is sufficient evidence without even looking at other league comparables to how salary and roster is structured in comparison to the Leafs.

The poll structure is by design structured to avoid having people voting yes to everyone. People are free to choose who they think are the players.

If 3+ out of 5 on the poll have outperformed their contracts then where are the playoff results?

 

[Sypher04]

Leafs have one only 1 round "once"; I think that is sufficient evidence without even looking at other league comparables to how salary and roster is structured in comparison to the Leafs.

It’s not sufficient at all as round wins are team accomplishments. It’s incredibly flimsy to base your judgement of individual players performance vs contract on team accomplishments.

 

[PromisedLand]

It’s not sufficient at all as round wins are team accomplishments. It’s incredibly flimsy to base your judgement of individual players performance vs contract on team accomplishments.

Team results are direct result of "quality" of the team assembled; and the "quality" of the team assembled has direct impact on the "quality depth" available to play hard minutes when top players are shut down.; and "quality depth" can only be afforded if there is "cap left" to get quality depth instead of dumpster diving and doing a hail mary on the season and playoffs

 

[Sypher04]

Team results are direct result of "quality" of the team assembled; and the "quality" of the team assembled has direct impact on the "quality depth" available to play hard minutes when top players are shut down.; and "quality depth" can only be afforded if there is "cap left" to get quality depth instead of dumpster diving and doing a hail mary on the season and playoffs

Agreed, but it’s your opinion that cap issues are what sunk us. Do I think more cap would help, yes, but I think our depth money could have been used more wisely and our coaching has let us down too at times. You’re taking a leap from our top guys making this much hasn’t worked to can’t work. That said, I’m not saying we’ve gotten enough in the playoffs out of our studs. Unlike you however, I am not basing my entire assessment seemingly on playoffs.

This team has done a lot of regular season winning which I think matters despite us all agreeing that the playoff results have not been sufficient

 

[PromisedLand]

Agreed, but it’s your opinion that cap issues are what sunk us. Do I think more cap would help, yes, but I think our depth money could have been used more wisely and our coaching has let us down too at times. You’re taking a leap from our top guys making this much hasn’t worked to can’t work. That said, I’m not saying we’ve gotten enough in the playoffs out of our studs. Unlike you however, I am not basing my entire assessment seemingly on playoffs.

This team has done a lot of regular season winning which I think matters despite us all agreeing that the playoff results have not been sufficient

Cap issues definitely sunk us because we couldn't afford quality depth as 4 guys were taking a bunch of cap.

The same 4 guys who keep playing the same way i.e. perimeter hockey. They keep playing regular season hockey in the playoffs. If you want them to pay them the premium then they need to have that additional playoff gear which they don't!

If they don't have that additional playoff gear then we need to insulate them with quality depth. Quality depth can only be acquired if we have cap space; in free market every team is competing for quality depth and Leafs always fall short because of lack of cap space.

You can blame coaching if you want; I will give you that; but coaches can only do so much. Simple example: Why is it that Matthews and Marner were separated against the bolts but they were not once sperated against panthers? Same in the habs series and CBJ series? Is it the coach? The GM? The players? Combination of all?

Bottom line is that this is a results driven business. I just don't see any results for the claims that are being made all over the Leafs forum.

 

[francis246]

Team results are direct result of "quality" of the team assembled; and the "quality" of the team assembled has direct impact on the "quality depth" available to play hard minutes when top players are shut down.; and "quality depth" can only be afforded if there is "cap left" to get quality depth instead of dumpster diving and doing a hail mary on the season and playoffs

Pretty sure Toronto out scored the opposition in most of those series losses or were out scored by less than 2 goals. To me that screams a goaltending quality issues in key games as opposed to a goal scoring issue.

 

[PromisedLand]

Pretty sure Toronto out scored the opposition in most of those series losses or were out scored by less than 2 goals. To me that screams a goaltending quality issues in key games as opposed to a goal scoring issue.

@Mess posted a chart where he showed how the core 4 performs in a series deciding games. We have 7 years worth of evidence for it. Are you going to blame "goal tending" in series deciding games?

If the answer is always "we got goalied" then whats the point of paying premium to the offensive players? Might as well round out the team to have more looks from all 4 lines instead of relying on only 4 players because it seems Leafs always get "goalied"

 

[Ianturnedbull]

POLL:

Which ex General Manager outperformed their contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs Organization?

1. Kyle Dubas

2. Floyd Smith

3. Gerry McNamara

4. John Ferguson Jr.

5. Gord Stellick

 

[francis246]

@Mess posted a chart where he showed how the core 4 performs in a series deciding games. We have 7 years worth of evidence for it. Are you going to blame "goal tending" in series deciding games?

If the answer is always "we got goalied" then whats the point of paying premium to the offensive players? Might as well round out the team to have more looks from all 4 lines instead of relying on only 4 players because it seems Leafs always get "goalied"

I don’t think we got goalied, I think in general goal scoring hasn’t been the issue. I think outside of Boston 2019 and Columbus 2020 where we got blown out in the deciding game. We’ve scored enough to win, whether that was from depth guys or our star guys. But goaltending shits the bed. Montreal is a prime example of that. Jack Campbell let’s in a few shitty goals in games 5 & 6. Games that had no business going to OT.

Honestly I don’t give a shit what Mess posts either. It’s always lacking context.

 

[ShaneFalco]

POLL:

Which ex General Manager outperformed their contract with the Toronto Maple Leafs Organization?

1. Kyle Dubas

2. Floyd Smith

3. Gerry McNamara

4. John Ferguson Jr.

5. Gord Stellick

if you mean wasted years yeah Dubas is #1

I talked to 5 people and they agree on the poll results

 

[notbias]

Damn I miss Hyman.

It is shocking that people miss this.

None of the above ..

My answer is Zach Hyman .... Leafs refused to pay him $5.5 mil and now the Oilers are reaping the rewards.

View attachment 739632

Hyman during the regular season last year produced similar regular season stats to Nylander, Matthews and Tavares for much less cap ...

Look at Hyman playoff numbers 14 goals 27 points in the past 2 playoffs.

View attachment 739634

Hyman at 1/2 the cap hit would have been the best bang for your cap buck.

"Playoffs don't matter anymore."

You should have said Bunting if you wanted bang for your buck.

I will never understand how you are a mod.

 

[Nineteen67]

No one. Nylander under performed the least, if that helps.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

View attachment 739689

It is shocking that people miss this.





"Playoffs don't matter anymore."

You should have said Bunting if you wanted bang for your buck.

I will never understand how you are a mod.

You'll be shocked to know that some people don't cheer for stats. They like players based on so many other variables. Why exactly can't I like Zack Hyman?