POLL — Who should have their number retired first - Toe Blake or Carey Price?

[Lafleurs Guy]

Subban
Pleka
Markov
Patioready
Eller
Gallagher
Petry
Weise

It's not as bad as you're making it sound considering he was playing in a cap era and the habs were always spending what ever they were allowed.

Price was supposed to be the difference maker. You can't expect them to have the full Team Canada squad. Its doesn't work that way.

And yes i know for DD but who would you have sacrificed from this list to acquire a legit no1 Center ?

Stamkos was a possibility at some point and they were talking about trading Subban for Stamkos, would you have done it? I know i wouldn't.

My point is in a cap era, no team has the best team. They're all missing something, thats why they say there's a parity in the league and that is done by design.

They had the makings of a contender. It should’ve been better than it was.

But… we played Desharnais as our first line. We added guys like Douglas Murray and Bouillion while turning down Jagr.

We shot ourselves in the foot for no reason. We should have won cups but our coach told PO Subban to dump and chase. He played Galchenyuk on the third line… needlessly stupid moves.

And NO you will never win the cup with Desharnais as your first line center. No way.

 

[Bombshell11]

They had the makings of a contender. It should’ve been better than it was.

But… we played Desharnais as our first line. We added guys like Douglas Murray and Bouillion while turning down Jagr.

We shot ourselves in the foot for no reason. We should have won cups but our coach told PO Subban to dump and chase. He played Galchenyuk on the third line… needlessly stupid moves.

And NO you will never win the cup with Desharnais as your first line center. No way.

Dude you dint read the other points i made. All good

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Most people would call him generational. Personally I apply a more rigid definition than I guess what others would. We agree he’s a fantastic goalie, one of the all time greats.

Where I think it gets crazy is when people (and there are a lot of them) cite him as the best ever. They don’t remember that he beat inferior clubs for two cups. They don’t remember how inconsistent he could be. They also don’t factor in the teams he was on. In short, he has warts and people overlook them too much.

In my view, Gretzky Lemieux are generational players. Yzerman and Sakic aren’t. And I think Roy is a lot closer to Yzerman than he is to Gretzky. Make sense?

...so how many other goalies do you put over Roy??...if you yourself consider him one of the all time greats, doesn't that make him Generational, in your opinion??...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Oh come on this is such a bunch of bull.... its a team sport man. Obviously people on the jersey devils were ready to die for Brodeur. They were the best because they wanted to be the best. Brodeur made some crazy saves in his career. The Defense of Jersey had full confidence on brodeur thats also why he was playing 70+ games a year.

Like its so disgusting to be knocking down players who achieved THINGS through sweat and blood.

...how is this "knocking down" Brodeur by me stating my opinion that Roy was better when it counted (playoffs)??...Brodeur is still one of the all time greats; I just personally would choose Roy over him when the money is on the line...don't jump soo hard to a conclusion that my posts don't make...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dude you dint read the other points i made. All good

I read them and I commented on them.

Having PK Subban doesn’t mitigate using DD. You aren’t going to win with him as your numbe one. Never going to happen.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

...so how many other goalies do you put over Roy??...if you yourself consider him one of the all time greats, doesn't that make him Generational, in your opinion??...

There’s career vs ability. Ability is how good a goalie I think they actually were. If the goalie was on a better team, would they have the same accomplishments? Career is measurable accomplishment.

Ability wise I think guys like Price and Lundqvist are just as good as Roy. They were incredible but played on terrible clubs. I will be in the minority but I think Price was a better goalie than Roy, esp when you factor in puck handling.

Career wise though, Roy is in the top ten at a minimum. Likely top five. Lundqvist and Price are probably outside the top 20.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

There’s career vs ability. Ability is how good a goalie I think they actually were. If the goalie was on a better team, would they have the same accomplishments? Career is measurable accomplishment.

Ability wise I think guys like Price and Lundqvist are just as good as Roy. They were incredible but played on terrible clubs. I will be in the minority but I think Price was a better goalie than Roy, esp when you factor in puck handling.

Career wise though, Roy is in the top ten at a minimum. Likely top five. Lundqvist and Price are probably outside the top 20.

...I agree with what you are saying for the most part, I just think you're selling Roy short in the Ability department, although I will admit to being somewhat biased on the subject, as Saint Patrick does happen to be my favorite player...that said, I think Price & Lundqvist are both worthy of at least Top 15 spots on any list; they CARRIED crap teams to heights that said teams had no right reaching...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

...I agree with what you are saying for the most part, I just think you're selling Roy short in the Ability department, although I will admit to being somewhat biased on the subject, as Saint Patrick does happen to be my favorite player...that said, I think Price & Lundqvist are both worthy of at least Top 15 spots on any list; they CARRIED crap teams to heights that said teams had no right reaching...

I think Roy was amazing. Best ever? No, but he’s in that top tier for sure. If anything it’s a huge compliment to Price that I’d include him in that class ability wise. If he’s just had a little more support I have no doubt we’d have won some cups with him.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I think Roy was amazing. Best ever? No, but he’s in that top tier for sure. If anything it’s a huge compliment to Price that I’d include him in that class ability wise. If he’s just had a little more support I have no doubt we’d have won some cups with him.

...as per usual when the Offseason comes, I can't use the normal way of "appreciating posts" right now for...reasons...mostly to do with leaving the Habs Boards and possibly making comments I shouldn't have made...

 

[peate]

Price doesn’t even care about this franchise, he wanted to go to Seattle. This love affair fans have for him is one sided. He doesn’t even like living in Montreal, he said he feels like a hermit and can’t go anywhere.

Fake news from 10 years ago. Take a break, dude, you need it.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Fake news from 10 years ago. Take a break, dude, you need it.

He wanted to go to Seattle 1 year ago. All I’m saying is that he doesn’t seem to care much about his legacy here.

 

[BLONG7]

...amigo, I remember how bad Roy could be as well as how good he could be...and that's the case with every goaltender who ever played...what made Roy, imo, a Generational goaltender was just how on he was when he was on & how he could literally carry a team...few goaltenders in the history of Hockey could do it and Roy was one of them...at least that's how I personally see it...

Yes, agreed............................but let's be very honest here, the run support he got when playing for the habs was just a little better, than Price. The quality of players in front of Roy, destroys what played in front of Price.
True? At least that;s the way I see it.....

 

[BLONG7]

Subban
Pleka
Markov
Patioready
Eller
Gallagher
Petry
Weise

It's not as bad as you're making it sound considering he was playing in a cap era and the habs were always spending what ever they were allowed.

Price was supposed to be the difference maker. You can't expect them to have the full Team Canada squad. Its doesn't work that way.

And yes i know for DD but who would you have sacrificed from this list to acquire a legit no1 Center ?

Stamkos was a possibility at some point and they were talking about trading Subban for Stamkos, would you have done it? I know i wouldn't.

My point is in a cap era, no team has the best team. They're all missing something, thats why they say there's a parity in the league and that is done by design.

And it's not as close as you make it out to be either....................early in the thread it was said Price had one 80 pt player in his entire career out in front of him..............
Roy had hall of famers out in front of him.........
I would think we will agree to disagree here....

He wanted to go to Seattle 1 year ago. All I’m saying is that he doesn’t seem to care much about his legacy here.

Nope.........injured, and they knew no one would take him. Calculated risk. And it worked for all. No way Seattle was going to bite. Had nothing to do with Price, it was MB.

 

[the valiant effort]

Lol the guy listed Dale Weise and some are still taking the bait.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol the guy listed Dale Weise and some are still taking the bait.

He also calls Pacioretty Patioready and tries to tell us hes so great, lol.

 

[Belloco]

Price will probably have his number retired.

I am against the policy of withdrawing numbers. There are already 15 numbers retired for Montreal and this franchise has had so many legends.

I think the jerseys should only be celebrated in the arena.

What does it mean for legends to know that no player will be able to wear their number? Nothing.

I think it would add more if a player wore the same number when referring to a former player.

If a young player wants to wear his lucky number, I find it unfortunate that he can't do it because it's impossible.

 

[MaynardJames]

Btw winning many cups in a 6 teams league is not something we should brag too much about. I think numbers should be only retired when it's obvious for everyone. Like Gretzky, Orr, Roy or Brodeur. When the impact of that player is game changing.

 

[Bombshell11]

Lol the guy listed Dale Weise and some are still taking the bait.

literally the last option and weise played great for us i have no idea what ur point is.

 

[Natey]

Durnan is an interesting case. Short career, amazing regular seasons but losing records in cup finals with really good teams. Harvey, Reardon, Bouchard… those were great teams. Personally I wouldn’t retire him.

I would retire Toe Blake though. I agree with the OP that it’s long overdue.

You've said this multiple times. And it's not true. Not even close, actually.

In the playoffs, Durnan was 27-18, with a 2.07 GAA. In the Stanley Cup finals, he was 10-5 with a 2.11 GAA.

In fact, the only Stanley Cup Final he lost, he gave up just 13 goals in 377 minutes (6 games), which is a 2.07 GAA.

So he won the Vezina in 6 of 7 seasons. He won 2 Stanley Cups. He had a winning record in the Stanley Cup Playoffs and the Stanley Cup Finals. 3-time All-Star. Named the 34th greatest player of all-time by The Hockey News in 1998. Named to the 100 Greatest NHL players by the NHL in 2017. Inducted to the Hockey Hall of Fame. Oh, and he was captain of the Montreal Canadiens.

He doesn't deserve his jersey retried but Carey Price does?!

You know who does have a losing record in the finals though? Carey Price. Not only a losing record but combined with terrible statistics. 3.20 GAA, .888 SV%. Woof.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You've said this multiple times. And it's not true. Not even close, actually.

In the playoffs, Durnan was 27-18, with a 2.07 GAA. In the Stanley Cup finals, he was 10-5 with a 2.11 GAA.

And how does it compare to his contemporaries? Raw numbers don’t mean much without the context of eras.

In fact, the only Stanley Cup Final he lost, he gave up just 13 goals in 377 minutes (6 games), which is a 2.07 GAA.

So he won the Vezina in 6 of 7 seasons.

In a six team league with some of the best players of all time in front of him including Doug Harvey. The Vezina btw went to the guy with the lowest GAA not save percentage.

He won 2 Stanley Cups. He had a winning record in the Stanley Cup Playoffs and the Stanley Cup Finals. 3-time All-Star. Named the 34th greatest player of all-time by The Hockey News in 1998. Named to the 100 Greatest NHL players by the NHL in 2017. Inducted to the Hockey Hall of Fame.

He doesn't deserve his jersey retried but Carey Price does?!

I wouldn’t retire him no.

How many more Vezinas do you think Price would’ve won playing behind Rocket Richard and Doug Harvey?

 

[Natey]

And how does it compare to his contemporaries? Raw numbers don’t mean much without the context of eras.

In a six team league with some of the best players of all time in front of him including Doug Harvey. The Vezina btw went to the guy with the lowest GAA not save percentage.

I wouldn’t retire him no.

How many more Vezinas do you think Price would’ve won playing behind Rocket Richard and Doug Harvey?

Lol so your point was "BUT HE HAS A LOSING RECORD IN THE FINALS."

I prove that wrong, with a simple 3 second Google search, you don't admit your error, and then you make up some other crap discounting him having A winning record. Amazing.

None. Price playing goalie without a mask? Not to mention goalie gloves in Durnan's era were glorified mittens. You had to be a special kind of nuts to play goalie back then. Price is not that guy.

 

[Mrb1p]

Btw winning many cups in a 6 teams league is not something we should brag too much about. I think numbers should be only retired when it's obvious for everyone. Like Gretzky, Orr, Roy or Brodeur. When the impact of that player is game changing.

Price was a better goaltender than Brodeur and was just as influencial for the big goaltenders we see today. He revolutionized goaltending and was/is the blue print for every goaltenders.

Swap Price and Brodeur, what do you think happens? (And Im one of Brodeurs biggest fan, he was my idol growing up.)

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol so your point was "BUT HE HAS A LOSING RECORD IN THE FINALS."

I prove that wrong, with a simple 3 second Google search, you don't admit your error, and then you make up some other crap discounting him having A winning record. Amazing.

None. Price playing goalie without a mask? Not to mention goalie gloves in Durnan's era were glorified mittens. You had to be a special kind of nuts to play goalie back then. Price is not that guy.

He also faced players that worked at the coal factory during the day with pucks that rarely ever left the ice.

Price plays literal thunderdome with genetically enhanced athletes with the dedication of a priest. Pucks are flying by at 140 kmh on average and 200 pounds dudes are flying towards him at 30 kmh, its hardly an easy task. All eras of hockey are insane, no matter how you cut it.

 

[Natey]

He also faced players that worked at the coal factory during the day with pucks that rarely ever left the ice.

Price plays literal thunderdome with genetically enhanced athletes with the dedication of a priest. Pucks are flying by at 140 kmh on average and 200 pounds dudes are flying towards him at 30 kmh, its hardly an easy task. All eras of hockey are insane, no matter how you cut it.

I agree with this.

Durnan would be shit in this era. But acting like Price could go to that era and dominate is just as hilarious.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lol so your point was "BUT HE HAS A LOSING RECORD IN THE FINALS."

I prove that wrong, with a simple 3 second Google search, you don't admit your error,

Fair enough, I had thought he’d made the finals a lot more than he did. My mistake.

The fact that he didn’t though doesn’t really help what you’re arguing…

and then you make up some other crap discounting him having A winning record. Amazing.

My overall point still stands. He played on powerhouses and only won two cups in a six team league.

The fact that he lost earlier in the playoffs than I thought he did makes his resume worse than I thought it was, not stronger.

None. Price playing goalie without a mask? Not to mention goalie gloves in Durnan's era were glorified mittens. You had to be a special kind of nuts to play goalie back then. Price is not that guy.

So what?

I mean, props to these guys for being brave/crazy enough to not wear a mask but that was the era. NOBODY in this day and age would go without a helmet now. And think about the invention of the slapshot, the new sticks.. guys would die today if they didn’t have a mask. And it’s meaningless in terms of jersey retirement.

I don’t think Durnan is a terrible candidate for retirement but I wouldn’t do it.