POLL — Who should have their number retired first - Toe Blake or Carey Price?

[Lafleurs Guy]

He was a non factor against the jets. The series just wasn’t competitive. We were better start to finish. Against Vegas, he nearly cost is the series. The only thing that saved us there was Fleury was worse. Against tampa he didn’t give us a chance to win, he sucked.

Price was .933 against Vegas.

Yeah... he sucked.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That’s because all you is deflect, spin and shift goalposts.

I answered every one of your points. And I presented my own.

Again your post mainly consisted of:

1. LG is a homer
2. But the "experts" say...

That's not argument. It's not a case for or against anything.

Again, nobody including me would deny that Roy had the better career over Price. Of course he did. Over Dryden? I don't think so.

But then we get into the case of ability and it's much more murky. On the one hand you argue that Dryden should be discounted because of his teams but on the other totally disregard the discrepancy in teams between Price and Roy... seriously man, that is hilarious. Which is it? Do teams matter or don't they? If they don't, then Roy has zero case against Dryden. If they do, then it opens the door to a lot of other goalies including Lundqvist and Price to make cases that they were a lot better than given credit for.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I answered every one of your points. And I presented my own.

Again your post mainly consisted of:

1. LG is a homer
2. But the "experts" say...

That's not argument. It's not a case for or against anything.

Again, nobody including me would deny that Roy had the better career over Price. Of course he did. Over Dryden? I don't think so.

But then we get into the case of ability and it's much more murky. On the one hand you argue that Dryden should be discounted because of his teams but on the other totally disregard the discrpenancy in teams between Price and Roy... seriously man, that is hilarious.

Hey if everything was different Price would have actually done something, but it wasn’t, so all we can do is make up arguments. He almost cost is the Vegas series. He let in softie after softie. Sv % is largely a team stat, one that I like to use in your favour when it suits and ignore/discredit when it doesn’t.

 

[FF de Mars]

Number 9 is a synonym of hatred? That’s weird man.

Yeah everytime I see 9 I think of Ovy.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Hey if everything was different Price would have actually done something, but it wasn’t, so all we can do is make up arguments. He almost cost is the Vegas series. He let in softie after softie. Sv % is largely a team stat, one that I like to use in your favour when it suits and ignore/discredit when it doesn’t.

Nice sidestep.

Let me know when you want to actually make a case for something. I'll be here.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Nice sidestep.

Let me know when you want to actually make a case for something. I'll be here.

I don’t need to make a case. Price’s number is not retired and it’s doubtful it will ever be.

BTW: How many times did Price lead the league in SV %?

 

[peate]

Yeah everytime I see 9 I think of Ovy.

What about 8?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don’t need to make a case. Price’s number is not retired and it’s doubtful it will ever be.

BTW: How many times did Price lead the league in SV %?

If you don’t need to make a case I guess we’re done.

I’ll just add it to the win column.

 

[FF de Mars]

What about 8?

I think of Komisarek when I see 8, LOL I see your point and my mistake, I replied too fast, but you know what I mean: when you retire numbers, a couple generations later, those numbers become associated with the ennemy! It's just not a good way to honour them, imho.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

If you don’t need to make a case I guess we’re done.

I’ll just add it to the win column.

How many times??

 

[Chili]

Toe Blake was honoured after he retired as the greatest coach in team history. The Habs held a banquet and invited 319 guests. No one failed to show up. That's respeck!

 

[the valiant effort]

How many times??

As the league leader in save% between 2010-2011 and 2016-2017, the answer is technically 7.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Toe Blake was honoured after he retired as the greatest coach in team history. The Habs held a banquet and invited 319 guests. No one failed to show up. That's respeck!

Should’ve been retired long ago.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

None. Imo, this team should only have few retired numbers. There is Guy Lafleur as retired numbers and Boutch Bouchard. I mean, following this logic, shutt, lemaire, chelios, price should be retiring too…

There would be too many of them. Newsly Lalonde, Aurèle Joliat, Toe Blake, Shutt, Lemaire, Naslund, Bobby Smith, Carbonneau, Chelios, Koivu, Markov, Price and Kovalev. I know Price was an excellent goalie but most names mentioned are History and Cups Wins. We should be more traditional and wait a bit with the Price retiring jersey. It looks premature right now.

 

[BLONG7]

He had teams he could only dream of according to you without factoring in that Roy was the most important part of those teams. You do the same thing the media has been doing for years, over value the goaltending position while completely dogging the team. This narrative the Price drug teams to the playoffs all his lonesome is mostly bullshit. No player can do that, when the team stunk, Price stunk even worse. It's time we call a spade a spade here and put this made of narrative to rest. It isn't true and it's never been. There isn't a single player in NHL history that has this type of impact. Not Hasek, Gretzky, Lemieux and certainly not Price. You and and the worshippers invented it, it isn't true. With that out of the way, can we actually discuss accomplishments, or we just going to discuss made up narratives invented to demonize the team and inflate PRice's worth?

Dryden played on dynasties ffs, what are you even talking about here? I would have won cups on those teams. Don't tell me you think the 86/93 teams were better teams than those 70's teams. Dryden's career fails in comparison to Roy's, it's not even close tbh and Dryden's was only 7 years long. There is no debate or sound argument for Dryden over Roy, but lets stop with the smokescreens, no one is talking about Dryden except you.

Nope, you invented a narrative. Roy changed how the position was played, led the league in SV% for many years and was in mix in years he didn't. He just so happens to have 3 conn Smythe trophies and and 3 Vezina's to go along with it. At some point accomplishments matter and feelings don't.

There is no one who agrees with you. Maybe you should make a case for your argument. It's sounding pretty flat atm. This has been debated for months/years even on HF's own history of hockey section. No one credible has Roy outside the top 2 or 3. You're a PRice homer and always have been, that won't change the facts. His trophy case has slightly more in it than Jose Theodore. Yippee.

The 70's teams were amazing, but Dryden was a huge part of them.
He took a year off, in a contract dispute, and they missed the playoffs if I remember correctly. The year after he retired, they lost in the first round..........
Dryden got 6 cups in 8 years......on amazing teams, but they relied on him, as much as he did they.........

Roy was amazing in 86 and 93, but always struck me as a me me guy first, and proved me right in 95.

Give me Dryden any day over Roy. Dryden dominated the Bruins, Roy, was dominated by the Bruins....

I watched it all unfold over the years, and as one of the elder statemen on this forum......

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Btw for those who are curious, Hockey News ranked Bill Durnan as the 8th best goalie. Here's an interesting look at his career: good, bad and the ugly.

Top 100 Goalies: No. 8 — Bill Durnan

Durnan survived seven glorious seasons in the NHL before retiring due to fried nerves.

thehockeynews.com

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

The 70's teams were amazing, but Dryden was a huge part of them.
He took a year off, in a contract dispute, and they missed the playoffs if I remember correctly. The year after he retired, they lost in the first round..........
Dryden got 6 cups in 8 years......on amazing teams, but they relied on him, as much as he did they.........

Roy was amazing in 86 and 93, but always struck me as a me me guy first, and proved me right in 95.

Give me Dryden any day over Roy. Dryden dominated the Bruins, Roy, was dominated by the Bruins....

I watched it all unfold over the years, and as one of the elder statemen on this forum......

Just my 2 cents.

But Roy won two Cups after the Habs. In '86 he was phenomenal vs the Rangers. One 3rd period NY Rangers outshot Habs by 23-2 almost all dangerous shots on Roy and Roy stopped everything. Lemieux scored the winning goal on a rare breakaway.
In '93 vs the Nords when Nords were leading serie 2-0, Roy was amazing. A Wall.

 

[MasterD]

Legitimately the best goalie of his generation. Not sure what else counts as generational for goalies if Price isn't it. His statistics and advanced metrics put him above legends like Roy or Brodeur.

Frederick Anderson? Halak? Schneider? This list means nothing lmao

 

[BLONG7]

But Roy won two Cups after the Habs. In '86 he was phenomenal vs the Rangers. One 3rd period NY Rangers outshot Habs by 23-2 almost all dangerous shots on Roy and Roy stopped everything. Lemieux scored the winning goal on a rare breakaway.
In '93 vs the Nords when Nords were leading serie 2-0, Roy was amazing. A Wall.

All very true..................but when he stunk, he stunk.................just my opinion here, give me Dryden anyday....

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

All very true..................but when he stunk, he stunk.................just my opinion here, give me Dryden anyday....

If you're like me I have Dryden first, followed by Roy and Price 3rd.

 

[rik schau]

If you're like me I have Dryden first, followed by Roy and Price 3rd.

Imagine Dryden having the equipment Roy and Price had.lol

 

[Chili]

The life of a goaltender before the mask:

Why Big-League Goalies CRACK Up | Maclean's | MARCH 19 1955

The mayhem of modern hockey ruins their sleep; they get ulcers; they fight with their wives; they get cut by bulletlike shots. They also get pampered and paid up to $15,000 a season. But they all agree it’s not worth it

archive.macleans.ca

In Montreal one night Bill Durnan’s mouth was badly cut in a goal-mouth pile-up and he was led away for stitching.

“There was absolutely nothing I feared more than stitches,” he recalls. “That needle scared me to death. To top it off there was no novocaine anaesthetic this night, and the interne kept muttering away about his sutures. ‘These damned dull sutures,’ he’d say, digging another one into my mouth.” Durnan was ready to scream when referee Bill Chadwick walked into the room. “How much longer is this going to take?” he asked.

“Almost finished,” said the interne.

“Well, hurry up,” grumbled Chad-wick, turning to go, “there was a penalty shot on that play and Durnan’s gotta get out there.”

And playing for those powerhouse Habs teams of the late 1940's...

Durnan points out that playing goal involves physical as well as mental strain. “It would be tiring for most people simply to stand all through a game like a goaler does,” he says. “In the spring during the playoffs the temperature in those buildings climbs to the eighties. If a game goes into overtime a goaler might be on his feet under pressure for three hours. I used to lose from five to eight pounds every game. One time, in a playoff, I lost seventeen.”

That game was a Stanley Cup final in 1947 when the Leafs completely outplayed the Canadiens after Buddy O’Connor had put Canadiens ahead in the first minute of play. Toronto finally tied it and in overtime Gus Bodnar scored for the Leafs from a face-off after Durnan had played one of the greatest games in playoff history. Official tabulation showed that he’d stopped seventy-two shots, against a mere twenty-one by Broda.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Imagine Dryden having the equipment Roy and Price had.lol

But scorers didn't have the modern sticks of today in Dryden's years. I guess equipment, training, goalies and skaters are overall the same ratio scorers vs goalies over the eras. Maybe the 80's were more offensive, I'm not sure. When did the goalies equipment became bigger? When did the players had carbon sticks? Was fiberglass sticks of Dryden era so efficient or only Bobby Hull-Guy Lafleur-Bill Barber had that blasting slapshot?

 

[BLONG7]

But scorers didn't have the modern sticks of today in Dryden's years. I guess equipment, training, goalies and skaters are overall the same ratio scorers vs goalies over the eras. Maybe the 80's were more offensive, I'm not sure. When did the goalies equipment became bigger? When did the players had carbon sticks? Was fiberglass sticks of Dryden era so efficient or only Bobby Hull-Guy Lafleur-Bill Barber had that blasting slapshot?

It's all very relative.............equipment for goalies was years behind some of the forwards advantages of skates and sticks.
The habs have been so spoiled with goalies over the years....................
Still think Price would have had a better fate, if we had a GM who could have built a winner, versus a GM who just tried to make the playoffs, always working on self preservation.
Roy and Dryden played for amazing teams, in front of them.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

It's all very relative.............equipment for goalies was years behind some of the forwards advantages of skates and sticks.
The habs have been so spoiled with goalies over the years....................
Still think Price would have had a better fate, if we had a GM who could have built a winner, versus a GM who just tried to make the playoffs, always working on self preservation.
Roy and Dryden played for amazing teams, in front of them.

Dryden had better players in his era. Lafleur was simply the best player, the big 3 at defense was the best of all and we can add Shutt, Lemaire, Cournoyer, Gainey, Risebrought, Lambert, Wilson, Mahovlich, Nyrop, etc. An all star team, like the Oilers have been between '84 to '90.
The two Cups of Roy it wasn't expected. They barely qualified for a PO spot in '86 when Roy was a rookie 18yrs old. Habs in 86-93 were better than the Price era but by a little notch. When Price was 18 yrs, he had a similar team than Roy in '86. Price between 18-22 yrs had Koivu, Markov and Kovalev. Not a total disaster in offence.