WC: Poland 2024 roster talk.

[legionista]

You might be confusing AHL with ECHL here.

PHL consists of 9 teams, 8 of them are more or less on par with ECHL level so it's not far fetched to think the top few players in the PHL can't play in the AHL. Would they be superstars in the AHL? No way, probably 3rd or 4th liners and in that role they'd be making much less than in PHL these days.

 

[S E P H]

I wouldn't say 3 tiers below NHL level, a few players in the Polish League which has gotten much stronger in the last few years, could easily play in the AHL. Unfortunately, for many of our players being a top tier player in a weaker league is more important than being a mid to lower tier player in a stronger league.

The problem with the Polish league is that it is way too concentrated in the mountains. No sport will ever be able to get good if it is so regionalised as it is in Italy (another example).

So why are there no poles in top euro leagues such as SHL, NLA, Liiga

There are many Polish players in Slovakia and Czech, which are very good leagues in their own right (likewise with some in the DEL). Czech isn't SHL-level good, but is still top 10 in the world.

 

[Namejs]

PHL consists of 9 teams, 8 of them are more or less on par with ECHL level so it's not far fetched to think the top few players in the PHL can't play in the AHL. Would they be superstars in the AHL? No way, probably 3rd or 4th liners and in that role they'd be making much less than in PHL these days.

With all due respect to the Polish league, it's really not on par with ECHL. It's just not. The Slovakian league is almost exactly on par with ECHL.

The Polish league is closer to the semi-pro Latvian league than to ECHL, with plenty of Latvian players being productive in both Latvia and Poland.

A lot of players 'could play' in the AHL and you are technically correct in that sense, but you could make the same argument about the NHL and a couple of thousand hockey players who have not stepped foot on NHL ice. So I would question the usefulness of the point being made.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I'm convinced a guy like Alan Lyszczarczyk could play in the AHL at the moment, he's said himself he prefers to be closer to home and the money in PHL is better than AHL level.

So this is the same Alan Lyszczarczyk who tried to force his way into the Czech league last season, scored 0 points in 14 games and was forced to choose between playing in the 2nd Czech league or coming back? Sorry but your conviction, in light of these facts, doesn't mean a whole lot.

Same goes with Wronka, you answered it yourself, he tried his luck in some of the weakest pro leagues in Europe and still couldn't really be a top-tier player outside of Poland. You mention same factors, being close to home and money, but how are those arguments any good when he did try playing abroad for 2 seasons in 3 different leagues?

 

[SoundAndFury]

There are many Polish players in Slovakia and Czech

Nothing beats throwing a blanket [statement] on fire, huh? There are 3 Poles in the Czech Extraliga who have collectively scored 8 points in 65 games and there is none in the Slovak Extraliga. Soo...

Furthermore, Pas, Tyczynski, Walega have recently tried their luck in the Slovak league and only Walega was successful. Walega, Lyszczarczyk, Komorski, Ciura tried to get into the Czech league and none was successful (although in Walega's case he has at least one more year).

You threw the DEL there as well which has 0 Poles who do actually play in the 2nd tier German league, just like all the guys listed above played in the 2nd tier leagues in those respective countries.

It's difficult to discuss with people who use the "facts" they simply made up.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The Polish league is closer to the semi-pro Latvian league than to ECHL, with plenty of Latvian players being productive in both Latvia and Poland.

That's a bridge too far because 8th team in the Polish league would be fighting for the championship in the Latvian one and the 8th Latvian league team would be losing by double digits to everyone in the Polish league. But the quality of the top players is much closer than people on the Polish side seem to think.

 

[S E P H]

You threw the DEL there as well which has 0 Poles who do actually play in the 2nd tier German league, just like all the guys listed above played in the 2nd tier leagues in those respective countries.

Wrong, the best Polska players tend to go to DEL, get German citizenship, and decide to play for Germany.

 

[Namejs]

Wrong, the best Polska players tend to go to DEL, get German citizenship, and decide to play for Germany.

You missed a step. The one where they move to Germany as kids and develop as players in Germany. Not PHL. No connection between PHL and them playing in DEL.

 

[Vikz]

Unfortunately, for many of our players being a top tier player in a weaker league is more important than being a mid to lower tier player in a stronger league.

You would be surprised, how beneficial it is to the players to play a bigger role in a weaker league. When Dinamo Riga was playing in the KHL, Latvian National team would barely score goals. When these guys moved to Europe, suddenly the quality of the players and of the National team rose. Our best scorer in the last years bronze team played in Austria. Zemgus Girgensons, who is playing in his 11th NHL season, would not play higher than the 3rd line in the National team. Because 11 seasons of defensive face offs, penalty kill, subpar linemates and 11 minutes per game does not contribute to improving offensive production.

The fact that most Poles play at home contributed significantly to their success last year. Because instead of warming the bench in Czechia, they scored points, played powerplay and won championships. And it translated to the National team.

 

[Eye of Ra]

The problem with the Polish league is that it is way too concentrated in the mountains. No sport will ever be able to get good if it is so regionalised as it is in Italy (another example).

There are many Polish players in Slovakia and Czech, which are very good leagues in their own right (likewise with some in the DEL). Czech isn't SHL-level good, but is still top 10 in the world.

There is no poles in DEL, there are some with polish roots, but they play for German NT.

In Slovak League there is 1 pole. In Czech League there is 4.

 

[legionista]

So this is the same Alan Lyszczarczyk who tried to force his way into the Czech league last season, scored 0 points in 14 games and was forced to choose between playing in the 2nd Czech league or coming back? Sorry but your conviction, in light of these facts, doesn't mean a whole lot.

Same goes with Wronka, you answered it yourself, he tried his luck in some of the weakest pro leagues in Europe and still couldn't really be a top-tier player outside of Poland. You mention same factors, being close to home and money, but how are those arguments any good when he did try playing abroad for 2 seasons in 3 different leagues?

I mean you can think what you want buddy, but I've been involved and following the Polish league and national team for 30 years and I know what I'm talking about, I think you're maybe Lithuanian or Ukrainian and I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on those leagues.

While it's true the main reason the PHL has gotten stronger is due to imported talent from Czechia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Canada, USA, etc., this has made the league stronger and consequentially has made Polish players stronger, unless you think it's pure coincidence Poland got to the Elite level this year, but I hope you would know better than that. I stand by my point that the top Polish players in the Polish league could play in the AHL, although probably not as impactful players.

 

[legionista]

Nothing beats throwing a blanket [statement] on fire, huh? There are 3 Poles in the Czech Extraliga who have collectively scored 8 points in 65 games and there is none in the Slovak Extraliga. Soo...

Furthermore, Pas, Tyczynski, Walega have recently tried their luck in the Slovak league and only Walega was successful. Walega, Lyszczarczyk, Komorski, Ciura tried to get into the Czech league and none was successful (although in Walega's case he has at least one more year).

You threw the DEL there as well which has 0 Poles who do actually play in the 2nd tier German league, just like all the guys listed above played in the 2nd tier leagues in those respective countries.

It's difficult to discuss with people who use the "facts" they simply made up.

Pas never "tried his luck" in the Slovak league, not sure what you're on about there. He played about 20 games for AZ Havirov in Czechia 2 a few years ago, that's about it.

 

[Namejs]

I mean you can think what you want buddy, but I've been involved and following the Polish league and national team for 30 years and I know what I'm talking about, I think you're maybe Lithuanian or Ukrainian and I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on those leagues.

While it's true the main reason the PHL has gotten stronger is due to imported talent from Czechia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Canada, USA, etc., this has made the league stronger and consequentially has made Polish players stronger, unless you think it's pure coincidence Poland got to the Elite level this year, but I hope you would know better than that. I stand by my point that the top Polish players in the Polish league could play in the AHL, although probably not as impactful players.

With Russia and Belarus in the picture, Poland would have ranked 20th last year. They have ranked 19th or 20th six times since 2003.

It's not a coincidence, but it doesn't really prove any kind of substantial improvement.

Hopefully it will boost the sport in Poland, but it's not likely Poland will stay in the Elite tier.

 

[Eye of Ra]

With all due respect to the Polish league, it's really not on par with ECHL. It's just not. The Slovakian league is almost exactly on par with ECHL.

The Polish league is closer to the semi-pro Latvian league than to ECHL, with plenty of Latvian players being productive in both Latvia and Poland.

Indeed, thats how it was before but the polish league have gotten much stronger.

1: KHL
2: NLA
3: SHL
4: Liiga
5: DEL
6: czech league
7: Slovak League
8: EBEL
9, Polish league

if we rank the euro leagues right now

 

[legionista]

With Russia and Belarus in the picture, Poland would have ranked 20th last year. They have ranked 19th or 20th six times since 2003.

It's not a coincidence, but it doesn't really prove any kind of substantial improvement.

Hopefully it will boost the sport in Poland, but it's not likely Poland will stay in the Elite tier.

It's true the exclusion of Russia and Belarus helped Poland get to the top division at WC as it did for other teams as well, however the NT has made gradual improvements since 2019 constantly moving up the ranks and divisions (minus the non WC Covid years).

The participation of PHL teams in the CHL, the "open liga" structure for PHL where more foreigners were allowed to play all helped improve the level of play in Poland and contribute to the NT success. That along with the fact most NT players are from the domestic league and advanced to the elite level just solidifies this point. Is it a huge step forward? No, and it will most likely not grow the sport in Poland, but that's not the topic here.

 

[Eye of Ra]

While it's true the main reason the PHL has gotten stronger is due to imported talent from Czechia, Slovakia, Ukraine, Canada, USA, etc

There is 33 finns in PHL and 19 swedes

 

[Namejs]

Indeed, thats how it was before but the polish league have gotten much stronger.

1: KHL
2: NLA
3: SHL
4: Liiga
5: DEL
6: czech league
7: Slovak League
8: EBEL
9, Polish league

if we rank the euro leagues right now

No.

Honestly, I wish all the best to Poland and I wish it were true. I hope they do become more competitive.

But even if you look up the Poles playing in DEL2, it's easy to see that the level of play in Poland is lower. They're not even close to being the 9th best league in Europe.

 

[Eye of Ra]

There is 5 good players in DEL with polish roots. Too bad they dont want to repesent Polska NT, all 5 of them would be good adds.

Simon Sezemsky
Maciej Rutkowski
Josh Samanski
Wojciech Stachowiak
Matthias Plachta

 

[Namejs]

There is 33 finns in PHL and 19 swedes

The Swedes are mainly from HockeyEttan, with short stints in Allsvenskan with limited roles there and poor point production.

 

[legionista]

There is 33 finns in PHL and 19 swedes

Yes, with some coming straight from SHL or Liiga such as Joona Monto or Daniel Trkulja. The "Open League" format has really raised the level of play in the PHL.

 

[legionista]

There is 5 good players in DEL with polish roots. Too bad they dont want to repesent Polska NT, all 5 of them would be good adds.

Simon Sezemsky
Maciej Rutkowski
Josh Samanski
Wojciech Stachowiak
Matthias Plachta

Also Arkadiusz Dziambor and Maksymilian Szuber who is in the AHL currently. The only German based player we have right now that's on the NT is Pawel Dronia in DEL 2.

Matthias Plachta is the son of former Polish NT player and coach Jaceck Plachta, which makes it even a harder pill to swallow. If it wasn't for dumb IIHF nationality rule, Poland would have a significantly stronger squad.

 

[Namejs]

Yes, with some coming straight from SHL or Liiga such as Joona Monto or Daniel Trkulja. The "Open League" format has really raised the level of play in the PHL.

Trkulja came straight from the Danish and previously Norwegian leagues, while Monto is a career Mestis player, showing very similar point production as in PHL over in the Finnish 2nd division.

 

[Eye of Ra]

while Monto is a career Mestis player, showing very similar point production as in PHL over in the Finnish 2nd division.

He had 12 points in 33 Liiga games in 2020

 

[legionista]

Trkulja came straight from the Danish and previously Norwegian leagues, while Monto is a career Mestis player, showing very similar point production as in PHL over in the Finnish 2nd division.

And where did Trkulja play before that? SHL

Moonta came over after playing 57 games in Liiga. Elliteprospects is your friend

 

[Namejs]

And where did Trkulja play before that? SHL

View attachment 835676

Moonta came over after playing 57 games in Liiga. Elliteprospects is your friend

View attachment 835674

Seriously, dude. It's right there in the screenshots.

They are more productive in PHL than in Norway or Denmark or Finland.

That's not proof of PHL being on par with those leagues. That's proof of PHL being an easier league to produce in, i.e., it's a weaker league.

The bulk of Finns and Swedes have mostly played in Mestis and Swedish 3rd division. Which is what the level of play in PHL corresponds to (or is 'on par' with).