Around the League Thread | The Conference Finals Begin!

[VanJack]

Kotkaniemi scratched. Stock falling. Great for Van trading for him.

Kotkaniemi offers a cautionary tale for anyone considering an offer sheet for an up and coming young center. Carolina off-sheeted him when he was still a member of the Canadians, and signed him to seven-year contract at $4.820m a season.

Montreal weighted matching the offer for all of five minutes--and then happily accepted the draft picks as compensation. And as of this writing, Kotkaniemi has one goal in 36 games and as has been pointed out was a 'healthy scratch' last night.

The notion that somehow if the Canucks acquired him--he'd magically recover his scoring prowess which he never really had in the first place--is the stuff of sheer fantasy. Even if the 'Canes offered to retain half his contract, I'm still not sure the Canucks would or should bite.

But it really underscores the risk of acquiring young guys like Kotkaniemi, Zegras or Turcotte. There's no guarantee that at this point in their careers, there's anything more in the tank.

I'm even becoming concerned about Stankoven, who's looking pretty ordinary in the 'Canes lineup, after a strong rookie season last year in Dallas. Sometimes their rookie years are as good as it gets--and it's slowly downhill after that.

 

[Breakers]

So the cap is going to massively “rise”?????

Yet the NHL can’t find a damn soul to watch the NHL playoffs in the states

Down 38% in viewership

 

[andora]

No. Kotkaniemi sucks.

Actually he'd be on his way to half decent if he didn't handle the puck like a grenade

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

So the cap is going to massively “rise”?????

Yet the NHL can’t find a damn soul to watch the NHL playoffs in the states

Down 38% in viewership

Not surprised.

It’s mostly been not great viewing.

NBA playoffs however has been insane.

 

[the big nobody]

I don't care if Beach gave it his blessing, Joel Quenneville shouldn't have been allowed back in the league.

 

[arttk]

They got no gamebreakers.
Staal and Burns are expired bums.
Biggest reason is goaltending sucks. Andersen has folded in the playoffs his entire career.

Woodley talked about it yesterday, Andersen’s body can’t hold up and his play drops if he plays more than like 6 games in a row.
Didn’t even know he was already 35.

 

[Attack Vector]

Carolina will likely bounce back,

Also explains why San Jose and Buffalo are perennial cup contenders.

Also explains why the 90th percentile of teams that won the Stanley Cup have a practice facility while the team that doesn’t have a cup is in the 10th percentile. I wonder which path is the logical one?

The only two teams in the NHL that doesn’t have a practice facility is the Canucks and Flames. Calgary has at least committed to one.

 

[VanJack]

Unless something dramatic happens for the 'Canes in Florida, this series might be sweep, or go no more than five games.

'Canes have to be demoralized after two consecutive beat-downs on home ice. Before the third period even started, the building looked half-empty as fans streamed for the exits.

Carolina tried to squeeze another season out of Freddie Andersson in goal, but it looks like it'll bite them in the butt. Too many injuries and just not up to playing every night.

They're definitely in the market for goaltending help next season, and if they don't pick up the phone and at least enquire about Demko--then they're not doing their jobs. And the 'Canes have a lot of assets that might intrigue Vancouver.

I've also focused on the play of Roslovic in this series--since he's one of the few impending UFA centers with any kind of pedigree. Count me as 'underwhelmed'. He'll get his money somewhere in the off-season,....just not convinced it should be Vancouver.

 

[DFAC]

The East sucks. What a pathetic display by Carolina

 

[thecupismine]

So the cap is going to massively “rise”?????

Yet the NHL can’t find a damn soul to watch the NHL playoffs in the states

Down 38% in viewership

Rangers out, Carolina in does a lot to that. Bandwagons are bigger when its a first in a long time run, so I can't imagine Florida or Dallas are pulling in big numbers either (they definitely have grown their long-term fan bases though).

NBA playoffs has also been way more entertaining for me personally this year. Tons of crazy comebacks, franchises who haven't won rings since the 70s, random secondary players popping off, star level guys getting knocked out by a scrappy deep team, two MVPs going at it, good storylines/trash talk, etc.

It's basically been what peak hockey is like.

 

[F A N]

A lot of those moves fall onto the GM though, at least that's my opinion. The more macro level moves involved him and the micro level ones fall on the GM, and I believe that to be true for a lot of POHO/GM tandems. I think Treliving did a good job this year.

I think the POHO job is what one makes of it. The POHO can hire a GM and let him supply the blueprint or carry out his vision. I'm not sure what you classify as "micro level" moves, but certainly in terms of things like hiring the head coach, trades, and free agent signings the POHO can be as involved as he wants. Like Burke in Calgary took the position that he was going to mentor Treliving but ultimately let him GM. I think Rutherford is clearly involved in the decision making process that we associate with GMs including hiring of AGMs, the head coach, trades, free agent signings etc.

You're seriously underselling Stolarz - he was 4th in the league in goals saved above expected in just 34 games.

Stolarz was/is a stud for the past two seasons but it's not like they planned for him to be the #1 goalie. In fact they planned for him to be a premium backup with Woll as the #1.

It came down to Matthews (and to a less extent Marner) being disappointments, from that perspective you're right I guess about the same script, but I don't think any GM in the league would willingly trade either of those 2 players.

No. Most GMs wouldnt't willingly trade either of those 2 but most GMs don't get 8 or so years to fix the problem either. Colorado traded Duchene and O'Reilly before they won a Cup. Bruins traded Kessel for picks.

I think the issue is they made the wrong forecast, which is that the cap will continue to go up and locking the core4 down was not going to be such a hinderance cap wise because the cap will continue to go up. I't not like a bad forecast, nobody saw Covid coming and that basically created the flat cap environment.

I don't disagree with this but the COVID year was 4 seasons ago and 2 of the 4 were locked up again post COVID.

They probably should've traded one of the core4 like 2-3 years ago though but the GM that trades away a 90-100+ point player will always be crucified unless the end result is them going to the SCF.

Well we traded JT Miller and there was certainly some fan support behind trading a player like Marner (and before him Nylander), particularly if the cap room is used to shore up the blueline and in goal.

 

[arttk]

I think the POHO job is what one makes of it. The POHO can hire a GM and let him supply the blueprint or carry out his vision. I'm not sure what you classify as "micro level" moves, but certainly in terms of things like hiring the head coach, trades, and free agent signings the POHO can be as involved as he wants. Like Burke in Calgary took the position that he was going to mentor Treliving but ultimately let him GM. I think Rutherford is clearly involved in the decision making process that we associate with GMs including hiring of AGMs, the head coach, trades, free agent signings etc.


Stolarz was/is a stud for the past two seasons but it's not like they planned for him to be the #1 goalie. In fact they planned for him to be a premium backup with Woll as the #1.


No. Most GMs wouldnt't willingly trade either of those 2 but most GMs don't get 8 or so years to fix the problem either. Colorado traded Duchene and O'Reilly before they won a Cup. Bruins traded Kessel for picks.


I don't disagree with this but the COVID year was 4 seasons ago and 2 of the 4 were locked up again post COVID.

Well we traded JT Miller and there was certainly some fan support behind trading a player like Marner (and before him Nylander), particularly if the cap room is used to shore up the blueline and in goal.

Well the 2 they extended are Matthews and Nylander. 1 is the best goal scoring forward since Ovy and the 2nd one is the only 1 out of the core 4 that doesn’t disappear during the playoffs. I feel like the mistake is not forcing Tavares out.

Miller is a different case, he nuked the room and the communication is pretty much, we don’t have a choice but to trade him because he nuked the room to the point of no return and we really don’t want to do this but it has to be done and this is a giant step back.

I think trading any of the Marner, Nylander, Matthews would be seen as a, we are making this trade to make the team better and it’s not because there is some internal problems. So if you make that move, you need to deliver (win more than 2 rounds) or else the fans will run you out of town. Kudos to any GM that has the guts to do that and pull it off but it’s obvious that Dubas and Treliving is not that guy.

 

[Jack Burton]

Blam!

Panthers keep rolling and Carolina can’t win a conference final

I was hoping this would change

 

[Vector]

Carolina might be cursed in the 3rd round

If by cursed you mean, they are committed to being good but not great then absolutely.

 

[Jack Burton]

If by cursed you mean, they are committed to being good but not great then absolutely.

It’s getting weird.(like the Canucks)

They are a really good team with excellent coaching but just can’t get over the “hump”

If they get swept again then all bets are off and a lot of people will get fired.

Terrible to do but it is 2025 and we all want results.

 

[Jyrki]

Rod should just put in Kochektov for the rest of the series, he'll probably get lit up too and do nothing for the scoring but we might get a crazy scorpion save or some shit. Maybe some post-game interview memes too. Embrace the suck!

 

[VanJack]

It’s getting weird.(like the Canucks)

They are a really good team with excellent coaching but just can’t get over the “hump”

If they get swept again then all bets are off and a lot of people will get fired.

Terrible to do but it is 2025 and we all want results.

I actually think this Carolina team isn't nearly as good as the one a year ago. Andersson, Stahl and Burns appear to be aging out fast; and that Rantanen trade blew up in their face. They really never replaced Marty Necas; and Brett Pesce was never replaced on the blueline either.

And if the 'Canes crash out in four, which seems likely.....big changes could be on the horizon.

 

[Jack Burton]

I actually think this Carolina team isn't nearly as good as the one a year ago. Andersson, Stahl and Burns appear to be aging out fast; and that Rantanen trade blew up in their face. They really never replaced Marty Necas; and Brett Pesce was never replaced on the blueline either.

And if the 'Canes crash out in four, which seems likely.....big changes could be on the horizon.

Its their C position

They have never had a guy who could control the middle of the ice and it’s been the downfall of them every year.

 

[Vector]

It’s getting weird.(like the Canucks)

They are a really good team with excellent coaching but just can’t get over the “hump”

If they get swept again then all bets are off and a lot of people will get fired.

Terrible to do but it is 2025 and we all want results.

It’s because they won’t acquire, and keep, elite talent and don’t believe in paying for goaltending. Their high shot volume strategy also inflates some of their advanced stats but the lack of elite forward talent and inability to rely on goaltending against great teams are far bigger problems.

 

[GranvilleIsland]

It’s because they won’t acquire, and keep, elite talent and don’t believe in paying for goaltending. Their high shot volume strategy also inflates some of their advanced stats but the lack of elite forward talent and inability to rely on goaltending against great teams are far bigger problems.

Also downgrading Rantanen during a contending window is chefs kiss. Well deserved. No doubt the hockey ops in Carolina is smart but being too smart is going to be their demise.

 

[quat]

Every single thing is going the Panther's way, on top of being and incredibly well assembled team.

Off topic, but oddly enough, trading for Horvat makes sense for both teams, providing Willander isn't involved.

 

[Jack Burton]

It’s because they won’t acquire, and keep, elite talent and don’t believe in paying for goaltending. Their high shot volume strategy also inflates some of their advanced stats but the lack of elite forward talent and inability to rely on goaltending against great teams are far bigger problems.

They have never really invested it their C position and I think that is their problem.

It’s 2025 and everything is running through the centre ice

 

[F A N]

Well the 2 they extended are Matthews and Nylander. 1 is the best goal scoring forward since Ovy and the 2nd one is the only 1 out of the core 4 that doesn’t disappear during the playoffs. I feel like the mistake is not forcing Tavares out.

That doesn't mean they wouldn't have extended Marner had his contract been up though. A lot of Leafs fans think the mistake was signing Tavares in the first place and poor negotiations vis a vis Matthews, Nylander, and Marner. Remember that they also went after Stamkos before Tavares. The plan was always to spend that money on a core 4 which at the time anybody could see that that would cause cap issues.

Miller is a different case, he nuked the room and the communication is pretty much, we don’t have a choice but to trade him because he nuked the room to the point of no return and we really don’t want to do this but it has to be done and this is a giant step back.

Well I think he just nuked Petey rather than the room but fair enough.

I think trading any of the Marner, Nylander, Matthews would be seen as a, we are making this trade to make the team better and it’s not because there is some internal problems. So if you make that move, you need to deliver (win more than 2 rounds) or else the fans will run you out of town. Kudos to any GM that has the guts to do that and pull it off but it’s obvious that Dubas and Treliving is not that guy.

I think there was enough fan support for the Leafs to make that move as it clearly wasn't working. Like the Canucks have won as many playoff series as the Leafs during Shanahan's tenure as Leafs POHO. How long did Shanahan and Dubas expect to have before they were run out of town?

 

[JT Milker]

Not surprised.

It’s mostly been not great viewing.

NBA playoffs however has been insane.

Short memories, first round was excellent. Carolina Florida is just a boring matchup.

 

[ManVanFan]

Kotkaniemi offers a cautionary tale for anyone considering an offer sheet for an up and coming young center. Carolina off-sheeted him when he was still a member of the Canadians, and signed him to seven-year contract at $4.820m a season.

Montreal weighted matching the offer for all of five minutes--and then happily accepted the draft picks as compensation. And as of this writing, Kotkaniemi has one goal in 36 games and as has been pointed out was a 'healthy scratch' last night.

The notion that somehow if the Canucks acquired him--he'd magically recover his scoring prowess which he never really had in the first place--is the stuff of sheer fantasy. Even if the 'Canes offered to retain half his contract, I'm still not sure the Canucks would or should bite.

But it really underscores the risk of acquiring young guys like Kotkaniemi, Zegras or Turcotte. There's no guarantee that at this point in their careers, there's anything more in the tank.

I'm even becoming concerned about Stankoven, who's looking pretty ordinary in the 'Canes lineup, after a strong rookie season last year in Dallas. Sometimes their rookie years are as good as it gets--and it's slowly downhill after that.

As I stated the value is low and lowering. Canucks are a pretty desperate team for a player that can play center.