Please Grade Dubas on today's Free Agent Pickups.

[IPS]

What do the words "less consequential" mean to you?

So do you or do you not believe the Oilers are a "rival" to the Leafs?

"HOLY GOD!"

I think it's adequate for anyone who tries referring to the Oilers as a rival to the Leafs.

 

[4thline]

So do you or do you not believe the Oilers are a "rival" to the Leafs?

I think it's adequate for anyone who tries referring to the Oilers as a rival to the Leafs.

In a business sense all teams are rivals competing for scarce resources. In the off-season the Canadian teams are a little closer than most because of there being a non-trivial number of players that won't sign up North of the border.

 

[IPS]

In a business sense all teams are rivals competing for scarce resources. In the off-season the Canadian teams are a little closer than most because of there being a non-trivial number of players that won't sign up North of the border.

I don't buy this one bit. I think all 32 GM's in the league would value the draft pick over being paranoid of a "rival" in another conference potentially going after any C grade free agents they may be interested in.

 

[4thline]

I don't buy this one bit. I think all 32 GM's in the league would value the cap space over being paranoid of a "rival" in another conference potentially going after any C grade free agents they may be interested in.

We didn't have cap space in the game. They did. They stood to benefit a whole lot more than a 6th round picks worth from the deal, but thought they should get it cheap because it didn't cost us anything.

A single 6th round pick for 500k cap space for the next several years would be like a thank-you plaque for a major charitable donation. A token.

 

[IPS]

We didn't have cap space in the game. They did. They stood to benefit a whole lot more than a 6th round picks worth from the deal, but thought they should get it cheap because it didn't cost us anything.

A single 6th round pick for 500k cap space for the next several years would be like a thank-you plaque for a major charitable donation. A token.

I mistakenly typed cap space for draft pick.

In the context of this argument - I think the team you're dealing with means a lot. If it's a divisional rival like the Habs, by all means don't do them any favors unless they pay up. But a team like the Oilers? Shouldn't give 2 shits about them, you only face them twice a year. Take that draft pick all day. Especially with the scarcity of draft picks in the organization.

 

[4thline]

I mistakenly typed cap space for draft pick.

In the context of this argument - I think the team you're dealing with means a lot. If it's a divisional rival like the Habs, by all means don't do them any favors unless they pay up. But a team like the Oilers? Shouldn't give 2 shits about them, you only face them twice a year. Take that draft pick all day. Especially with the scarcity of draft picks in the organization.

I actually think the "harm" aspect is almost inconsequential, so it doesn't really matter who it is. I wrote that paragraph almost as an afterthought and only because the quoted poster referred to it directly. As a concept it's really only about not helping other teams unless it's worth your while. But- it would be the Leafiest thing ever for the Oilers to win the cup aided by a deadline add made possible by what amounted to goodfaith charity.

The only reason to do a favour like that (so little reward vs. what the other team is getting) is to strengthen a working relationship, if the other party appreciates what you're doing for them and will pay it back. But if the guy wanting the favour is being a dink about it and trying to screw you over, acting like the free pick is being generous: f*** em. It's not worth the precedent.

 

[redgrant]

Why would Dubas want a team with a similarly aged core to be slightly less competitive? No clue

Agree no clue when you'll play Columbus 5x as much over the next decade as Edmonton and edmontoj never offersheeted leafs. He should be about as concerned regarding a KHL team trying to poach some of his euros.

 

[redgrant]

For me it's two fold.
A. the principle of the thing. one year of 400-500k cap space has been shown fairly repeatedly to be worth a 4th-6th round pick. This deal enable 7 years of that. a standalone 6th was a lowball on that front. Second front, a 5th-7th is a pretty standard price to just *talk* to a UFA early. The 8th year for holding rights is that much more valuable. Kyle did Holland a favour by waiving the *talk* price in the hopes of realizing that extra value, Holland refused to pay for it. in a closed business environment there's value in standing your ground. With the stakes so low, why not.

Of course, the counterargument is that it cost the leafs nothing to do the Oil a massive favour and that goodwill could be beneficial down the line, but I don't think it's hard to infer that Holland tried to spin it the pick as "take it or leave it, I'm doing YOU the favour" and that there was a certain amount of screw you in the Leafs decision to decline.

B. (less consequential) Yeah it hurts a rival. Maybe that 5ook takes them out of the running on a player the Leafs like. Maybe they do need that space year after year and bleed picks in retention deals.

I think another key issue is dubas now realizes he made a big mistake signing 3 players to 11m each and is trying to act like 500k is a big amount. It's almost feels like he's trying to compensate from previous errors and show yes cap does matter to him.

 

[TheBigFour]

kase has been really good. very noticeable and would probably have more points if he wasn't playing on a shut down checking line.

ritchie is basically what he has always been. people overrated him because of the size and grit.

 

[notbias]

Agree no clue when you'll play Columbus 5x as much over the next decade as Edmonton and edmontoj never offersheeted leafs. He should be about as concerned regarding a KHL team trying to poach some of his euros.

Playoffs are a thing? Maybe Dubas sees Edmonton as a potential Stanley Cup challenge if the Leafs make it there, it is alright if you don't, I think Edmonton is constructed terribly so I can't see them making it, but maybe he does, so why not make them a slightly worse team unless your asking price is met?

 

[Face Of Bear]

We got a trio of duds in Kase-Kampf-Ritchie. Kase and Ritchie might be able to turn it around but that wont happen if they're stapled to Kampf. Guy is a blackhole offensively.

 

[4thline]

I think another key issue is dubas now realizes he made a big mistake signing 3 players to 11m each and is trying to act like 500k is a big amount. It's almost feels like he's trying to compensate from previous errors and show yes cap does matter to him.

Nah, 500k isnt that big, 4th-6th round pick. But everyyear for 5-6 years... more than a single 6th

 

[The Podium]

Choking a 3-1 lead to Montreal unfortunately destroyed a lot of this fanbase's faith in the GM. I think it would have been more palatable if they didn't also lose out to a scrub team like Columbus the year before.

The fact that you believe this team should’ve won both those series means you also believe this team was competitive and should have won with the roster the GM constructed. Because you hold that opinion, it means you also support what Dubas has built but are disappointed that the players have failed the fans and the GM.

 

[The Podium]

1. Kampf - A
2. Bunting - B
3. Kase - B-
4. Mrazek - C
5. Ritchie - C-/D

Overall: B

 

[The Podium]

We got a trio of duds in Kase-Kampf-Ritchie. Kase and Ritchie might be able to turn it around but that wont happen if they're stapled to Kampf. Guy is a blackhole offensively.

Anyone who is critical of Kampf doesn’t know how to hockey as far as I’m concerned.

No surprise our PK has been significantly better and we finally have a true shutdown line.

 

[Zybalto]

Anyone who is critical of Kampf doesn’t know how to hockey as far as I’m concerned.

No surprise our PK has been significantly better and we finally have a true shutdown line.

Kampf has been a perfect Hyman replacement in that area for sure.

The PK was actually excellent last year as long as Andersen wasnt in the net....like top 5 without him and 30th in the league with him bad.

 

[IPS]

The fact that you believe this team should’ve won both those series means you also believe this team was competitive and should have won with the roster the GM constructed. Because you hold that opinion, it means you also support what Dubas has built but are disappointed that the players have failed the fans and the GM.

Ofc i believe they should have. Look at our talent and look at theirs.

 

[The Podium]

Ofc i believe they should have. Look at our talent and look at theirs.

So why are you so critical of the GM who built a team with talent? He didnt lose the series.

 

[redgrant]

Playoffs are a thing? Maybe Dubas sees Edmonton as a potential Stanley Cup challenge if the Leafs make it there, it is alright if you don't, I think Edmonton is constructed terribly so I can't see them making it, but maybe he does, so why not make them a slightly worse team unless your asking price is met?

I'd say the odds of Edmonton and Toronto with the current groups meeting in the Stanley cup final is much lower than a draft pick materializing.

This is why I find dubas irrational decision so bizarre. He's supposed to be this analytics stats guy and best case scenario he's concerned about a hypothetical cup matchup more than a draft pick that he can trust his large scouting staff on.

Suspect part of it is outright frustration he could not retain hyman based on cap errors he made.

 

[zeke]

The fact that you believe this team should’ve won both those series means you also believe this team was competitive and should have won with the roster the GM constructed. Because you hold that opinion, it means you also support what Dubas has built but are disappointed that the players have failed the fans and the GM.

 

[Mike1]

My thoughts on the Leafs off-season.

Kampf - A solid edition to the PK & good in a defensive checking role. Overplayed as 3rd line centre.

Bunting - He has been ok. Provides some depth offence, goes hard to the net & has a pest quality to him. Best value signing for Dubas of off-season.

Kase - Another solid edition to the PK, good skater but his offensive production has been hurt by not playing with offensive players. I don't mind him at all.

Mrazek - Meh goalie addition. Acquired him to be insurance & find ourselves in the same situation. I question the need to sign a goalie for 3 years when Jack Campbell's contract was coming up.

Ritchie - Dud. He doesn't have the speed to keep up with our better players. He doesn't use his size consistently & lacks offensive instincts/creativity. For the record, I wasn't expecting him to be a Hyman replacement. Ritchie just doesn't bring anything to the table.

Verdict: Dubas got more out of cheap depth signings than he did when he spent more money. The Mrazek & Ritchie signings are very questionable. If I was to give him a grade, it would be a C.

 

[Bomber0104]

So why are you so critical of the GM who built a team with talent? He didnt lose the series.

So why go back to the same crew of losers that can't finish a series against non-playoff teams, let alone 4 rounds?

Does shaking up the depth players inspire faith in the fanbase?

I highly doubt it.

We've been waiting for this team to show us something since 2018.

Not even a sniff yet.

 

[ponder]

1. Kampf - A
2. Bunting - B
3. Kase - B-
4. Mrazek - C
5. Ritchie - C-/D

Overall: B

I’d say:

• Bunting: A - quality player, terrific value
• Kampf: B - brings little offensively, but like him defensively, and he’s cheap
• Kase: C+ - he’s serviceable, though man, rarely have I seen a player get so rocked so often. Even minor hits blow him up
• Mrazek: F - terrible contract, I think we’re gonna regret this one big time
• Ritchie: F - I was hopeful he’d be a good fit, but nope, dude sucks

 

[deprw]

Edm was getting what they wanted regardless , Dubie could have had a free lottery ticket but he f***ed it up .

and when did Dubie become the chosen one to set what's proper value ? lol

Market price for 2/3 of ELC worth of cap space isn't peanuts. We don't get that for 6th, so why we would sell that for 6th. You never get proper price in the trade if you cave in only thinking about short term gain. During deadline you get low balled and your prices are higher, since in the end you prefer bad deal instead of no deal. Normal market dynamics. Sucks for Oilers though.

 

[deprw]

I'd say the odds of Edmonton and Toronto with the current groups meeting in the Stanley cup final is much lower than a draft pick materializing.

This is why I find dubas irrational decision so bizarre. He's supposed to be this analytics stats guy and best case scenario he's concerned about a hypothetical cup matchup more than a draft pick that he can trust his large scouting staff on.

Suspect part of it is outright frustration he could not retain hyman based on cap errors he made.

I don't even understand why you care to argue about this? If it's because of the cap space lost from your team, that tells me that you value it more than that 6th and Holland screwed up in that sense. How much let's say 4th round worth of value would have changed your team in long run, instead of having 500k / 7 years less cap space.

Let's say we meet up in the SC finals, then that pick should materialize way more than being just replacement level player. Top six F or top four D, that has some effect during that season, which is more unlikely than us facing in the SC finals. That would be one time series, which has pretty big difference in outcome, if you're first or second, so in that scenario you likely chip that 500k of cap space from the opponent. At least if the price that was on the table was 6th round pick.

I don't think one second that scenario crossed Dubas mind when he made that decision. It was Holland low balling and trying to fish some value out for peanuts. You could build scenario where he knew there might be shit stirring here for "lost value", so he thought Dubas might bite in.

It was just bad deal for us and easy price to pay for sending message, that if you want something you pay at least market price. 6th for 7 years worth of cap space wasn't market price.

This is stupid argument, since 6th isn't usually worth a shit anyway, so we shouldn't lose sleep over it. Holland will live with his decision. We sign some European UFA instead of that 6th.