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Players you would like to trade this off-season ranked - pick 3

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Who is the player you most want to see traded? Pick 3!

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    205
LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
Okay but Lou screwed the rebuild with terrible drafts, trading 2nd's for 4th line C's and signing over the hill vets to play bigger roles than they should have.

Dubas signing a PPG center is definitely much better than that.
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I thought Hunter screwed the drafts?

The 2nd round picks would have looked nice if we'd have closed out the caps or bruins (could have won either series but didn't)

We didn't trade any major assets under Lou. No top prospect, no 1st rounder (outside of the Andersen deal).

Lou was probably too patient. He had a chance to grab Mcdonough in 2018 but didn't deal with Lilijgren + Kapanen or whatever it was.

We would have been a better team had he made the move in a sign and trade for McDonough but he held his assets which cost us.

Lou was too defensive in 2018 (the only year he should/could begin to go for it).

Dubas started off too aggressive with the big JT signing, and the Kadri for Barrie deal a year later.

He seems more conservative now with Giordano not costing a lot, and him holding off on dealing Hyman/Andersen in their final years.

We need a blend of Lou and Dubas. Both have/had misplaced their bets on players who underperformed (Marleau, JT).

Dubas is committed to the JT Era and that is worrisome. JT has never been a strong playoff player and with the leafs he consistently underperforms while taking close to 13.33% of our cap.

JT can't just be a solid 1C in the playoffs. He's got to be breaking the other teams defenses down and taking advantage of 2nd line competition. He's only in his early 30s so he needs to find a way to become relevant again
 
Mess said:
Mitch Marner ($10.9 mil) + Petr Mrazek $3.8 mil to NYI for Matty Barzal ($7 mil) + Ilya Sorokin ($4.0 mil)

- Leafs get a elite center and starting goalie for the price of Marner for the same $11 mil cap and get to dump Mrazek bad contract in the process.

Justin Holl ($2 mil) + Kyle Dubas to Seattle for Jared McCann ($5 mil) + Ron Francis

- Leafs get to undo the expansion draft, and add a potential 30 goal scoring winger for the Mrazek cap space recovered.

Notes:
- Tavares contract immovable due to NMC so another #11 mil contract OUT, because when Matthews is getting his $16 mil new contract we can't afford another $15 mil mistake to Marner shortly thereafter.
- Ron Francis GM promoted to President/GM who hires Barry Trotz as coach. To remove top heavy unsuccessful management clutter and install the *** Fran-A-Plan ***
- Jack Campbell re-signed as #1B
- "Play the Kids"

I love it when a plan comes together. :)
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Once again, Mess is obsessed with fixing what he sees as the biggest "mistake" the Leafs made; not blowing their #4 overall in 2015 on an injured Matthew Barzal.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
Okay but Lou screwed the rebuild with terrible drafts, trading 2nd's for 4th line C's and signing over the hill vets to play bigger roles than they should have.

Dubas signing a PPG center is definitely much better than that.
Click to expand...
There's some truth to what you're saying. Tavares is good NHLer. It's just that his cap hit makes everything so difficult. What would have happened if Toronto went with Bozak, Kadri, Matthews at center? It's so hard to speculate, but it's hard to stomach watching Bozak win a cup, and Kadri 3 wins away from raising the cup. Meanwhile Tavares and company can't win a single playoff round.

I don't mind JT, but he came here on an 11 million dollar a year deal. It's not so much him. It's what his 11 million dollar a year did to the team, and continues even today.

:leafs
 
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Ianturnedbull said:
Pretty interesting topic. It's a bigger question than most of us can imagine.

I would say that under the cloak of having advanced stats and capologists making objective decisions, Kyle Dubas has made several emotional decisions with this hockey club.

Here is a small list of emotional decisions made by this Shanny/Dubas regime:

1. Acquiring John Tavares. How bad would have TOR been if their top 2 centers were Matthews at number 1 and Kadri at number 2? Paying JT 11 million with 2 elite prospects unsigned was terrible cap management.

2. Trading Nazem Kadri. This was an emotional decision. There was no way this was decided by production/cap hit. Kadri lived on the edge and made judgement errors, but who support him when other teams were getting chippy?

3. Trading Patrick Marleau to CAR for a 1st round pick. I can't imagine any other GM doing this. What would have been the harm in keeping Marleau for 1 more season? Even if he had to play on the 4th line, what would have been the harm? It seems to me this was a knee-jerk/emotional move.

4. This was a minor one, but acquiring Clifford for a 2nd time/using Simmonds for the 1st round of the playoffs against Tampa. I think that Keefe didn't create this on his own. I think that Dubas/Shanny/Keefe drew this up before the playoffs started and it backfired on them. Definitely an emotional decision. Simmonds/Clifford did not contribute in any other way.

I suppose the OP's question can be answered by using this guideline:

What emotional decision would a lame duck GM/Coach/President make this offseason?

:leafs
Click to expand...


I agree 100%. Signing JT was wrong for a few reasons. They got too good, too fast. It allowed Marner and Matthews to inflate their stats. Marner suddenly had a 47 goal scorer to pass to, and Matthews got easier minutes by not being a clear cut 1C.

The magical number of $11 was also a factor. No way was Matthews going to sign a new deal that didn't make him the highest paid player. He had to sign for just over 11.

I think we might have been able to get Matthews at $10 million, Marner closer to 7-7.5, and Nylander around 6. That's around 5 million cheaper, plus the extra 11 million saved.

Kadri was a great #2 centre and was forced into a more physical role than he should have been. When he got his playoff suspensions, be was playing on the softest playoff roster every assembled- he was about the only guy pushing back.

Marleau at 6 was a fine signing. He provided great leadership and showed the young lads a tremendous level of maturity and professionalism.
 
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socko said:
Tavares - No Brainer
Mrazek - No Brainer
Sandin - Too slow and terrible in his own end.
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Sandin dominated his matchups and never got scored on.. how exactly was he terrible in his own end?

and while he doesn't have burner speed he isn't slow. not sure where that comes from as he rarely gets beat.
 
I can't see anyone would want to trade Nylander.
Sure, he is the best piece to trade for value, but I would prefer to have good players than trade them away.

However, Kerfoot, Mrazek, Engvall could all go away and make the team better. That's $9 million right there.
Mikheyev can follow for another 1.5

I'd rather have 1 Nylander than Engvall, Kerfoot and Mikheyev, even with adding a couple of ELC.
They're just completely banal players.
 
TheRumble said:
If you trade Tavares this team has no 2C. Hes overpaid now but he's still effective as a 2C, y'all acting like he's James Neal or something.
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With the exception of faceoffs, Tavares isn't a 2C anymore. 3C or 2W (and PP) is where he belongs. Kampf, Kerfoot and Nylander would likely all be at least as effective at 2C.
 
Lightsol said:
Once again, Mess is obsessed with fixing what he sees as the biggest "mistake" the Leafs made; not blowing their #4 overall in 2015 on an injured Matthew Barzal.
Click to expand...

Showing you could have had an 83 point Calder winning #1 C Barzal ($7 mil) + Sorokin level #1G ($4 mil) for the same cap cost as Marner for $11 mil.

A #1C +#1G for the same cap hit >>>> #1Winger which is far great cap management and team building techniques. IMO

If you have Barzal and Matthews & Kadri as your top 3 centers (strength down the middle) then you don't need to sign Tavares for $11 mil either, nor remove Kadri for cap costs.

Perhaps instead of spending that $11 cap on another center Tavares, you could have brought Norris level Dman Alex Pietrangelo home for $8.8 mil, and still had another $2.2 mil to invest in the team elsewhere.

"Good teams are built from the goalies out, through strong defense and strength down the middle"

Point being with better drafting, and better management Leafs could have had a #1C Barzal ($7mil) signed UFA #1D Alex Pietrangelo ($8.8 mil) instead of Tavares for $11 mil, and used the Marner $10.9 mil + Tavares $11 mil much better to say also signed UFA #1G like Jacob Markstrom ($6.0 mil)

#1C Barzal + #1D Pietrangelo + #1G Markstrom = $21.8 mil vs Tavares + Marner = $21.9 mil

Maybe the Leafs wouldn't be 0-4 in the last 4 playoffs, if only our GM had made better decisions? That is what I'm obsessed with fixing. :wg:
 
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Jamason said:
With the exception of faceoffs, Tavares isn't a 2C anymore. 3C or 2W (and PP) is where he belongs. Kampf, Kerfoot and Nylander would likely all be at least as effective at 2C.
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I don't disagree. Tavares on the wing might be the way to go forward. My issue is that TORONO'S top 6 is it's too small with not enough jam. Matthews is finally imposing his size, but we are left with Nylander, Marner, Tavares, and Bunting on the wing. I know that Tavares and Nylander are gym rats, but they still don't impose their size on defenders. Honestly, I know Bunting is cost effective, but I'd rather have him contributing on the 3rd line.:leafs
 
ACC1224 said:
Tavares isn't a realistic option.
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If the poll was "who will be traded", you're right.

Even without the NMC, he'd be virtually impossible to trade for anything worthwhile.

But this is "who would you like to trade", so he's an option.
 
Mess said:
Mitch Marner ($10.9 mil) + Petr Mrazek $3.8 mil to NYI for Matty Barzal ($7 mil) + Ilya Sorokin ($4.0 mil)

- Leafs get a elite center and starting goalie for the price of Marner for the same $11 mil cap and get to dump Mrazek bad contract in the process.

Justin Holl ($2 mil) + Kyle Dubas to Seattle for Jared McCann ($5 mil) + Ron Francis

- Leafs get to undo the expansion draft, and add a potential 30 goal scoring winger for the Mrazek cap space recovered.

Notes:
- Tavares contract immovable due to NMC so another #11 mil contract OUT, because when Matthews is getting his $16 mil new contract we can't afford another $15 mil mistake to Marner shortly thereafter.
- Ron Francis GM promoted to President/GM who hires Barry Trotz as coach. To remove top heavy unsuccessful management clutter and install the *** Fran-A-Plan ***
- Jack Campbell re-signed as #1B
- "Play the Kids"

I love it when a plan comes together. :)
Click to expand...
I'd love to get Sorokin and Barzal, but why would they trade their #1 goalie and 1C for a winger who doesn't play their style, and also accept a cap dump/bad contract? They add 3.7M plus become a worse team.
 
Jamason said:
I'd love to get Sorokin and Barzal, but why would they trade their #1 goalie and 1C for a winger who doesn't play their style, and also accept a cap dump/bad contract? They add 3.7M plus become a worse team.
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They wouldn't in reality, nor would I expect a 2 X Exec of the year GM to make such a move.

However, if you're trading Marner (as 1 of the 3 players in this poll), because of his massive contract, you could see how cap management could be so much better by investing it in more players to build a team around and also higher priority ones like a #1C and #1G instead of a #1winger for what you're currently investing that much cap % in.

So my decision was based on picking the 3 worst Leafs worst contracts. It would be Marner for overpaid contract, Mrazek for overpaid and bad contract, and Holl $2 mil for just be bad overall and needs to go, particularly after than embarasing protecting him the expansion draft and let Seattle have their 27 goal and team leading scorer McCann instead for nearly the same cap $2.9 mil.

PS. Tavares NMC is unmovable, so picking him wouldn't be any more realistic then the point I was attempting to make. :)
 
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When a team is 0-6 trying to get out of the first round, the answer is any of them (if the deal is right). Not give me a list of 3 who cares and change them for 3 who cares.

If there is a deal, a coach, a chance of doing something that makes your team 1 game better each time, you do it. And if you aren’t looking/considering, you shouldn’t be GM.
 
Ianturnedbull said:
Pretty interesting topic. It's a bigger question than most of us can imagine.

I would say that under the cloak of having advanced stats and capologists making objective decisions, Kyle Dubas has made several emotional decisions with this hockey club.

Here is a small list of emotional decisions made by this Shanny/Dubas regime:

1. Acquiring John Tavares. How bad would have TOR been if their top 2 centers were Matthews at number 1 and Kadri at number 2? Paying JT 11 million with 2 elite prospects unsigned was terrible cap management.

2. Trading Nazem Kadri. This was an emotional decision. There was no way this was decided by production/cap hit. Kadri lived on the edge and made judgement errors, but who support him when other teams were getting chippy?

3. Trading Patrick Marleau to CAR for a 1st round pick. I can't imagine any other GM doing this. What would have been the harm in keeping Marleau for 1 more season? Even if he had to play on the 4th line, what would have been the harm? It seems to me this was a knee-jerk/emotional move.

4. This was a minor one, but acquiring Clifford for a 2nd time/using Simmonds for the 1st round of the playoffs against Tampa. I think that Keefe didn't create this on his own. I think that Dubas/Shanny/Keefe drew this up before the playoffs started and it backfired on them. Definitely an emotional decision. Simmonds/Clifford did not contribute in any other way.

I suppose the OP's question can be answered by using this guideline:

What emotional decision would a lame duck GM/Coach/President make this offseason?

:leafs
Click to expand...
The amazing power of hindsight!
 
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Mess said:
Showing you could have had an 83 point Calder winning #1 C Barzal ($7 mil) + Sorokin level #1G ($4 mil) for the same cap cost as Marner for $11 mil.

A #1C +#1G for the same cap hit >>>> #1Winger which is far great cap management and team building techniques. IMO

If you have Barzal and Matthews & Kadri as your top 3 centers (strength down the middle) then you don't need to sign Tavares for $11 mil either, nor remove Kadri for cap costs.

Perhaps instead of spending that $11 cap on another center Tavares, you could have brought Norris level Dman Alex Pietrangelo home for $8.8 mil, and still had another $2.2 mil to invest in the team elsewhere.

"Good teams are built from the goalies out, through strong defense and strength down the middle"

Point being with better drafting, and better management Leafs could have had a #1C Barzal ($7mil) signed UFA #1D Alex Pietrangelo ($8.8 mil) instead of Tavares for $11 mil, and used the Marner $10.9 mil + Tavares $11 mil much better to say also signed UFA #1G like Jacob Markstrom ($6.0 mil)

#1C Barzal + #1D Pietrangelo + #1G Markstrom = $21.8 mil vs Tavares + Marner = $21.9 mil

Maybe the Leafs wouldn't be 0-4 in the last 4 playoffs, if only our GM had made better decisions? That is what I'm obsessed with fixing. :wg:
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Absolutely would rather have Barzal and Sorokin than Tavares, but that's all gone.

Right now, the Islanders have them, and I'm not sure they would trade those two for Matthews, let along Marner.
 
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