Players with the full hardware case

[1989]

This is the sort of engaged passionate conversation that HFBoards could use more of.

But wait until we add politics to it! The entire trophy case of posting repertoire, if you will.

 

[1989]

Here's a (probably incomplete) list of players who have won five or more of these trophies:

• Ovechkin - all seven
• Gretzky - six (missing the Calder due to a technicality about eligibility)
• Lemieux - six (he's actually achieved all seven, but the RR wasn't introduced until late in his career)
• Orr - six (missing the RR - but won the Norris)
• Crosby - six (missing the Calder)
• Malkin - six (missing the RR)
• Kane - six (missing the RR)
• LaFleur - five (it really should be six - he led the NHL in goals before the RR was introduced; but he's missing the Calder)
• McDavid - five (missing the Calder and Stanley Cup)
• Trottier - five (missing the RR and Pearson)

It's tougher with older players (because there were fewer trophies). Gordie Howe almost certainly would have had six of these trophies (everything except the Calder), but neither the Rocket Richard or Pearson trophies existed at the time.

EDIT - Bernie Geoffrion is another example. He won six Stanley Cups, a Hart, two Art Ross trophies, and the Calder. That's four. He led the league in goals twice, but before the Rocket Richard trophy was introduced (Rocket Richard, the player, was his teammate). That's really five, since it's a statistical trophy. He also has a good case for the 1957 Conn Smythe trophy (he decisively led the playoffs in goals and points). Who knows? He could have won the Pearson/Lindsay trophy in 1961 (when he won the Hart - the winners correspond 60-70% of the time). Geoffrion could have won all seven trophies, had they been around back then.

For the reasoning in this post alone, it's only really worth it to judge players' trophy cases as complete when they've won all relevant awards at the time of their retirement, especially where there are multiple subjective non-statistical trophy categories like the Hart, Lindsay, Smythe, Selke, Calder, Masterson, etc. What one fan "believes" should be won "had the award existed at the time" is hardly going to be of any verifiable benefit to another fan's viewpoint.

If anything, I guess people could assign a point system to trophies to help determine the stronger trophy case, which would then also then include the value of multiple wins of the same award.

 

[Run the Gauntlet]

What Dman matches Leetch's resume? besides orr are there any?

Calder
Norris 2x (Hart Substitute?)
Cup
Conn Smythe
102 pts to lead all Dmen in 1992 (AR/Rocket substitute?)

I guess he could technically win the rocket...
Could win the Lindsey award too I suppose although I cant remember last time a Defenseman won that.

Only Cale Makar comes close.

 

[Voight]

Sakic in 2001 came really close to doing all of this in one year.

Hart - check
Pearson - check
Cup - check
Selke - narrowly lost to John Madden
Art Ross - finished three points behind Jagr
Richard - finished five goals behind Bure
Smythe - Roy won it that year (I dont know if voting data is available for that year, but he probably finished 2nd)

 

[Hockey Outsider]

For the reasoning in this post alone, it's only really worth it to judge players' trophy cases as complete when they've won all relevant awards at the time of their retirement, especially where there are multiple subjective non-statistical trophy categories like the Hart, Lindsay, Smythe, Selke, Calder, Masterson, etc. What one fan "believes" should be won "had the award existed at the time" is hardly going to be of any verifiable benefit to another fan's viewpoint.

If anything, I guess people could assign a point system to trophies to help determine the stronger trophy case, which would then also then include the value of multiple wins of the same award.

I prefer to take it one step further and look at how many times a player was a finalist for a trophy (and/or how many votes they earned over the course of their career - normalized so that each year is worth the same amount).

I don't like the binary approach that's often used on HFBoards (where a player who received 396 voting points is a trophy winner, and a player who received 395 voting points walks away with nothing).

A player who repeatedly comes close to winning an award is almost certainly better than a player who wins once, and never comes close again. As an example - there are lots of great defensemen who never won a Norris trophy, but were a finalist many times - Brad Park, Scott Stevens, Borje Salming, etc. They're generally considered better than players who won the Norris trophy once, and never came close again - Mark Giordano, Randy Carlyle, Tom Johnson, etc. The same thing is true with the Hart trophy - Jaromir Jagr "only" won one Hart, which ties him with Jose Theodore, Taylor Hall, and Al Rollins. It's surely more meaningful to say that he was a six time finalist, and compare him to players like Hasek, Ovechkin, and Beliveau. Or the Conn Smythe - Pronger, Fedorov, Forsberg and Potvin never won the award, but surely they were close on multiple occasions. That's much more impressive than a one-time winner who never came close again - ie Justin Williams, Cam Ward, Butch Goring, etc.

The point is - trivia like this can be interesting. But it's just trivia, and it misses important context. So nobody should argue that Ovechkin > Gretzky because 7>6 (and, in fairness, nobody has done that).

 

[kugelbahn]

I would add Presidents Trophy to that list, first five trophies are awarded in regular season. If we have SC to go with Conn Smythe, it makes sense to have Presidents Trophy included as well.

 

[behemolari]

How many players have won the most important awards at least once in their career ?

Calder Trophy
Hart Memorial Trophy
Art Ross Trophy
Rocket Richard Trophy
Ted Lindsay Award
Stanley Cup
Conn Smythe Trophy

Is Ovechkin really the only one who won all of the above?

Lemieux obviously won all as well but Rocket was first awarded in 99.

Sid missed Calder.

Geno never won a Rocket.

McDavid missed Calder and a SC

in my books selke is the most important

 

[ozzie]

Poor Wayne and the owner's hatred of the WHA. Bush league they said, but feared it so much they then said Gretzky had played in a professional league. Years later Makarov rolls in after Russian League experience and wins. I'm not bitter. Retroactively won Rockets too of course.

 

[JackSlater]

No one has won them all, as strategically leaving the Selke out in order to declare that Ovechkin did it while no one else has doesn't fly. I guess the same applies to the Byng, but I'd be more willing to leave that out since it is not based on quality by criteria. Exempting the Byng, Ovechkin got everything he could except the Selke. Orr got every trophy that was available to him during his career, though he would not have gotten a Richard had the trophy existed.

So, I'd say that no one has the "full trophy case" but Ovechkin, Lemieux, and Orr come the closest.

 

[Summer Rose]

No one has won them all, as strategically leaving the Selke out in order to declare that Ovechkin did it while no one else has doesn't fly. I guess the same applies to the Byng, but I'd be more willing to leave that out since it is not based on quality by criteria. Exempting the Byng, Ovechkin got everything he could except the Selke. Orr got every trophy that was available to him during his career, though he would not have gotten a Richard had the trophy existed.

So, I'd say that no one has the "full trophy case" but Ovechkin, Lemieux, and Orr come the closest.

Gretzky too, no? He's just missing the Selke I think, and was ineligible for the Calder on a technicality. He even has several times won the Lady Byng for that matter.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

MacKinnon needs Ross/Rocket/Smythe. Probably the one with the best odds to join that club.

I higly doubt Mack wins a Rocket. Just an inconsistent shooter especially in the regular season.

Smythe maybe. Makar has lately been the Avs big boy in the playoffs and winning a cup is damn difficult.

Ross is the most likely award.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Calder is a nothing trophy IMO, Sid has the full hardware case as far as I'm concerned.

And he has it all twice lol.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Calder is a nothing trophy IMO, Sid has the full hardware case as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah. If players like Crosby and McDavid don’t have a calder and players like mason and raycroft do.. it’s kind of meaningless.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Well, I consider Calder an important and unique trophy as you can only win it once

It’s not a serious trophy.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It’s not a serious trophy.

Lane Hutson disagrees.

Oh wait, is this not the Calder race thread? My mistake.

 

[Drake1588]

The combination of not having multiple shots at the Calder, and the fact that the Rocket is new, is what makes this so short a list.

Then there is the reality that certain categories are monopolized by just a few players.

The list is cherry picked, too. Try adding the Selke now.

 

[toddkaz]

Good god it’s literally anything to discredit Ovechkin

Insecure, Calder is meaningless.

Tyler Myers won the Calder...how did that work out for him?

Olex Ovechkin has never won a Selke.

 

[toddkaz]

Before reading the thread; "What's a full hardware case?" After reading who's the OP: "Probably defined so that a Russian player is the only one" After reading the OP: "What a shocking development."


Translation: "This definition allows a Russian to be the only one to fit the definition."

I guess a full hardware case doesn't include a Selke even though Ovechkin is eligible every year to win it.

Also Crosby has won the Mark Messier leadership award where Ovechkin never has.

Imgine bragging about hardware when you are missing awards.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Insecure, Calder is meaningless.

Tyler Myers won the Calder...how did that work out for him?

Olex Ovechkin has never won a Selke.

Almost none of those guys have won the Selke though. By all means include it if you wish. But if you do, nobody has done it. That’s why ir wasn’t included. It’s still a really interesting topic.

And the cool element about adding in the Calder is that you only have one shot at it. It’s really hard to do this and it’s amazing that OV (and I’d argue Lemieux) seem to be the only ones to have done it. Gretzky’s a technicality somewhat. He had already played in a different league at 18 but I have zero issues including him here as well.

Orr realistically won everything a blueliner could but he didn’t win the Rocket - which I think is impossible for a defender to do.

Another thing you could add in: Olympic or Canada Cup gold.

 

[daver]

I agree with this, also he would have won the calder literally any other year. 2nd best rookie season in the 21th century at worst.

2nd best 18 year old season in NHL history, maybe Orr was better.

 

[toddkaz]

Almost none of those guys have won the Selke though. By all means include it if you wish. But if you do, nobody has done it. That’s why ir wasn’t included. It’s still a really interesting topic.

And the cool element about adding in the Calder is that you only have one shot at it. It’s really hard to do this and it’s amazing that OV (and I’d argue Lemieux) seem to be the only ones to have done it.

Crosby has won the Mark Messier leadership award. Ovechkin has not. How about that award?

Bragging about the Calder is no different than bragging about the Selke. A side note Crosby was a finalist for the Selke. Ovechkin was not.

You only have one opportunity to win the Calder and multiple opportunities to win the Messier and Selke so I find it disingenuous to include the Calder but not others.

 

[BLNY]

How many players have won the most important awards at least once in their career ?

Calder Trophy
Hart Memorial Trophy
Art Ross Trophy
Rocket Richard Trophy
Ted Lindsay Award
Stanley Cup
Conn Smythe Trophy

Is Ovechkin really the only one who won all of the above?

Lemieux obviously won all as well but Rocket was first awarded in 99.

Sid missed Calder.

Geno never won a Rocket.

McDavid missed Calder and a SC

Gretzky.

Calder - Let's be honest. The only reason he didn't get the Calder was because the NHL punished him for having played in the WHA. Plenty of Calder winners since that spent time in other pro leagues first.

Hart - Check

Art Ross - Check

Richard - Check (if it existed)

Lindsay - Check (when referred to as Lester B. Pearson)

Stanley Cup - Check

Conn Smythe - Check

 

[toddkaz]

Gretzky.

Calder - Let's be honest. The only reason he didn't get the Calder was because the NHL punished him for having played in the WHA. Plenty of Calder winners since that spent time in other pro leagues first.

Hart - Check

Art Ross - Check

Richard - Check (if it existed)

Lindsay - Check (when referred to as Lester B. Pearson)

Stanley Cup - Check

Conn Smythe - Check

Gretzky never won the Calder because he was ineligible he played in the WHA that doesn't exist anymore. Another reason the Calder isn't meaningful.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Crosby has won the Mark Messier leadership award. Ovechkin has not. How about that award?

Meh. I don’t even think it’s a real award. Isn’t it sponsored by Rolaids?

Bragging about the Calder is no different than bragging about the Selke. A side note Crosby was a finalist for the Selke. Ovechkin was not.

The Selke would be cool to include as well. Nobody has done it though.

Why the hell are you turning this into a Crosby/Ov thing? Seriously take that shit elsewhere.

You only have one opportunity to win the Calder and multiple opportunities to win the Messier and Selke so I find it disingenuous to include the Calder but not others.

That’s what makes the topic so interesting. Only one guy has done it. Technically Mario did it too.

 

[toddkaz]

Meh. I don’t even think it’s a real award. Isn’t it sponsored by Rolaids?

The Selke would be cool to include as well.

Why the hell are you turning this into a Crosby/Ov thing? Seriously take that shot elsewhere.

That’s what makes the topic so interesting.

You mad bro? Why are you so insecure about Ovechkin?

OP - Players with a full hardware case?

Me - What about Crosby?

LaFleurs Guy - Stop talking about Crosby! Get lost I don't like it! Leave this thread now!

Bizarre.