Players with the full hardware case

[Ace Card Bedard]

Kane would have had them all if not for Ovechkin getting 50 and the Rocket in 2016.
Kane had 46 that year, second place.

 

[Toby91ca]

As dumb as it is that Gretzky was ineligible for the Calder I did rule him out because he didn't get it. Even if all of the trophies had existed since the start of the league I don't think there is anyone who ever would have won each one. Howe and Beliveau would have gotten everything but the Selke as well had all of those trophies existed, barring some kind of bizarre voting.

Beliveau would have had a chance at Calder, but likely not have a won, but Howe would have had 0.0% chance of winning the Calder.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes it's very rare. Even then though, Yzerman and Fedorov didn't get the Calder. I was also wrong in my previous post as well since Beliveau and Howe didn't get the Calder either. Yzerman never led the NHL in scoring outside of Gretzky and Lemieux, though in 1989 he probably outscores Nichols if Gretzky doesn't exist. Fedorov would have a scoring title but not leading the NHL in goals.

He outscored Nichols anyway. And without those two he'd have finished first in goals as well.

 

[Summer Rose]

I'm not too interested in this debate again, but I'm just extremely pleased that no one has mentioned the Messier trophy that I could see. That thing could go drown in a septic tank for all I care. I put it lower than the Byng.

Out of curiosity, and I'm asking this out of genuine curiosity, what is your opinion of the Bill Masterton?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Sakic in 2001 came really close to doing all of this in one year.

Hart - check
Pearson - check
Cup - check
Selke - narrowly lost to John Madden
Art Ross - finished three points behind Jagr
Richard - finished five goals behind Bure
Smythe - Roy won it that year (I dont know if voting data is available for that year, but he probably finished 2nd)

You're forgetting Joe Sakic's most prestigious accomplishment. He's the first and only player in NHL history to win the exalted Sheraton Road Performer trophy.

 

[JackSlater]

Beliveau would have had a chance at Calder, but likely not have a won, but Howe would have had 0.0% chance of winning the Calder.

Yeah I was wrong, the trophy existed when they played and they both didn't get it.

He outscored Nichols anyway. And without those two he'd have finished first in goals as well.

I was referring to goals, but yes I imagine that if Gretzky wasn't there Yzerman leads the NHL in goals in 1989 since Nichols barely outscored him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're forgetting Joe Sakic's most prestigious accomplishment. He's the first and only player in NHL history to win the exalted Sheraton Road Performer trophy.

Okay, THAT I did not know existed.

 

[Summer Rose]

You're forgetting Joe Sakic's most prestigious accomplishment. He's the first and only player in NHL history to win the exalted Sheraton Road Performer trophy.

Joe Sakic was one of the best passers I've ever seen. The best pass of his career was when he handed the cup to Ray Bourque instead of lifting it himself.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yeah I was wrong, the trophy existed when they played and they both didn't get it.



I was referring to goals, but yes I imagine that if Gretzky wasn't there Yzerman leads the NHL in goals in 1989 since Nichols barely outscored him.

Yzerman beat Nichols in points as well. Won the Pearson (which is also insane because Lemieux had one of the greatest seasons ever.)

155 is the highest single season total for anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux. McDavid came close a couple of years ago (in 82 games vs 80) but that's it. Nichols had 150 that year.

Yzerman's career is pretty incredible. For six years he's 50/100 every year except one season (where he misses by a few goals.) Only Gretz, Lafleur and Bossy have done 6 x 50/100. If Lemiex/Gretz weren't in the league then, his career would be held in even higher regard. It's too bad he gets hurt in '94 because he was never really as productive again and had to reinvent himself.

 

[JackSlater]

Yzerman beat Nichols in points as well. Won the Pearson (which is also insane because Lemieux had one of the greatest seasons ever.)

155 is the highest single season total for anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux. McDavid came close a couple of years ago (in 82 games vs 80) but that's it. Nichols had 150 that year.

I know that Yzerman had more points that year.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Well, I consider Calder an important and unique trophy as you can only win it once

I feel like that's more of a testament to it being a fluke than anything.

Especially when you can have 25 year olds and/or guys who have played 4 years professionally competing against 18 year olds who have only played juniors.


Two players in the last 10 years have won the award at 24 years old after having played professionally for an extended time. How can we feel good about awarding a rookie award to a 24 year old who has played professionally for the better part of a decade?

 

[blundluntman]

Arguing Selke is more important over Calder is crazy work.

It definitely is more important/impressive.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

In the end I don't see what relevance a sponsor plays in its legitimacy. Especially when every time I watch NHL hockey all I see is sponsors everywhere even on their helmets but if its an award that means its bad. Its hogwash.

To me, it really depends on how much the sponsor is actually involved. If they just paid some money to slap their name on the thing, like what happened with the Leadership award, I agree it's no different than the ads on the boards or helmets, and don't really care. If they paid some money and as a result, get a say in who wins the award, that's when it delegitimizes the whole thing.

For me, the biggest problem with the Mark Messier Leadership Award is that it's selected by Mark Messier, and Mark Messier alone, and any award that boils down to one guy giving someone a pat on the pack is pretty much meaningless.

 

[BrokenFace]

Calder is a nothing trophy IMO, Sid has the full hardware case as far as I'm concerned.

I couldn't agree more. Being the best 2nd year player is much more important than being the best rookie, but they don't give out a trophy for the former.

Also, Selke >>>> Calder. Just look at the list of winners for each. There's a lot of guys who won the Calder and ended up just having a solid career, if even that.

 

[JackSlater]

Yzerman beat Nichols in points as well. Won the Pearson (which is also insane because Lemieux had one of the greatest seasons ever.)

155 is the highest single season total for anyone not named Gretzky or Lemieux. McDavid came close a couple of years ago (in 82 games vs 80) but that's it. Nichols had 150 that year.

Yzerman's career is pretty incredible. For six years he's 50/100 every year except one season (where he misses by a few goals.) Only Gretz, Lafleur and Bossy have done 6 x 50/100. If Lemiex/Gretz weren't in the league then, his career would be held in even higher regard. It's too bad he gets hurt in '94 because he was never really as productive again and had to reinvent himself.

I think that Yzerman and his career is fairly misunderstood now, with people fixated on grizzled vet Yzerman and not the young one who was basically Nathan MacKinnon (more or less) in the late 1980s early 1990s. People do not recall what a big deal he was during his career. For instance the CBC aired his whole retirement ceremony.

 

[Mubiki]

Well, I consider Calder an important and unique trophy as you can only win it once

This is the best argument as to why it isn't important though. It is the most susceptible to random events and factors outside the control of the player. Over the course of a career all of the other trophies are about as fair as humanly possible. If you can't win a Rocket or Ross in 15 years, it wasn't meant to be. A single slash to the hand or puck to the face could prevent a Calder win, and you never get another chance. The fact that people have won a Conn Smythe before a Calder or that the greatest player ever was not even eligible due to a technicality says it all.

It's cool to win, sure, but there are way too many random factors to include it with the premier trophies.

 

[max21]

Insecure, Calder is meaningless.

Tyler Myers won the Calder...how did that work out for him?

Olex Ovechkin has never won a Selke.

Man you guys really like to use the word insecure as if it’s some dig or something, what’s the point of discussion if you’re just called insecure if you don’t agree. The Calder obviously matters to some people or there wouldn’t be 129 pages of discussion on the main boards about the Calder race this year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think that Yzerman and his career is fairly misunderstood now, with people fixated on grizzled vet Yzerman and not the young one who was basically Nathan MacKinnon (more or less) in the late 1980s early 1990s. People do not recall what a big deal he was during his career. For instance the CBC aired his whole retirement ceremony.

He's actually a pretty underrated player. His prime was with terrible teams and he played at the same time as Gretz/Lemieux. It's only after his prime that the Wings became the machine they would. He was still obviously an important piece but before that he was all alone. Incredible that he had the points he did.

Very few players have six year runs as good as Yzerman's.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is the best argument as to why it isn't important though. It is the most susceptible to random events and factors outside the control of the player. Over the course of a career all of the other trophies are about as fair as humanly possible. If you can't win a Rocket or Ross in 15 years, it wasn't meant to be. A single slash to the hand or puck to the face could prevent a Calder win, and you never get another chance. The fact that people have won a Conn Smythe before a Calder or that the greatest player ever was not even eligible due to a technicality says it all.

It's cool to win, sure, but there are way too many random factors to include it with the premier trophies.

In the grand scheme of things it's not really an important trophy. But it makes for interesting discussion. I hadn't realized so many great players didn't manage to win it. It's clearly the least valuable of the awards.

 

[daver]

Does Mark Messier really select the winner each year? If thats true, it kind of is a make believe trophy. Not even saying this to defend ovi or anything. Also if your including the calder, the selke should be included. Not sure who that hurts or helps because neither Ovi or Crosby has one.

quick ai google search

• Selection:
  The winner is chosen by Mark Messier himself, a Hockey Hall of Famer and a renowned leader in the NHL.

If you read more it states it has to go to an active player as he would always select himself.

 

[Kegs]

Patrice Bergeron

6x selke
Stanley cup
Spengler cup
2xOlympic gold medal
World jr gold
World championship gold
World Cup of hockey gold.
King Clancy
Mark messier

Throw in another 20 team awards awarded to him by the Bruins.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

In the grand scheme of things it's not really an important trophy. But it makes for interesting discussion. I hadn't realized so many great players didn't manage to win it. It's clearly the least valuable of the awards.

I agree it's not important, but it can't be the least valuable while the Lady Byng and Mark Messier pat on the back both exist.

 

[ViD]

It definitely is more important/impressive.

Selke is a position defined trophy, a d man can’t win it, but a d man can win a Calder

 

[BrokenFace]

BuT I WaNt ThE MeSsIeR AwArD tO bE FaKe. ItS nOt a ReAL aWaRd.

View attachment 995990

The Messier Leadership award is the fakest of all trophies in any sport I know of. Why hasn't anyone won it twice? Is leadership a quality that people just lose after a year? The winners are just a list of guys that Messier likes. Let Todd Marchant give out a trophy each year, it would be equally as meaningful.

 

[blundluntman]

Selke is a position defined trophy, a d man can’t win it, but a d man can win a Calder

Fair point