Players Who Are Less Than Their Resumes?

[buffalowing88]

that would be an weird again case to make.

Save Percentage finish (3-6-9-10)

1981-82 NHL .898 (3rd)

1984-85 NHL .884 (10th)

1985-86 NHL .890 (6th)

1992-93 NHL .893 (9th)

Career gsaa: -37
playoff career gsaa: 3.9

Vezina: 1-2-3-3-5-6-6 (is quite solid)
4x cup but 0 Smythe which can be incriminating.

Does a kid looking at the back of an Grant Fuhr hockey card or hockey reference page as any change to overrate him a lot ?

We usually heard these argument that he was more than is resume, with a you need to go look for when he stopped any goal, timing in series of performance...

But 4xcup + 1987 canada cup, is in a sense quite the team success resume

 

[NyQuil]

I think Marian Hossa is one of these guys.

He has an impressive resume on paper but I never saw him as “the” guy on his team aside from his limited time in Atlanta with Kovalchuk where he never won a playoff series.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

But Fleury just dwarfs Fuhr by statistical metrics. I think maybe it's a mix of him getting better with age and the league changing at the same time.

That's as simple as Fuhr playing in the highest scoring era in history and Fleury in one of the lowest scoring

 

[Michael Farkas]

That's as simple as Fuhr playing in the highest scoring era in history and Fleury in one of the lowest scoring

Quick math. Fuhr played his career in an 18% higher scoring environment over Fleury (not including this year) and Fuhr's GAA is 30% higher. Maybe it's simple. Maybe it's not.

 

[MS]

My go-to guy for this is Rob Blake. His resume is obviously HHOF-worthy but watching his whole career very closely he wasn't even close to the player his resume suggests.

Then you obviously have Mike Vernon, who ticks a ton of HHOF boxes and somehow got voted in but simply was not a very good goalie for most of his career.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think Marian Hossa is one of these guys.

He has an impressive resume on paper but I never saw him as “the” guy on his team aside from his limited time in Atlanta with Kovalchuk where he never won a playoff series.

I think Hossa is the exact opposite of this. Winger that gets judged on his goal/point totals and "no Selke finals" despite probably being the 2-way winger of his generation. On HFBoards, the "Hossa shouldn't be in the HHOF" crowd was very big into the resume counting... as well as the Basketball like analysis of "the" guy... for why they thought he wouldn't get in.

For purposes of this thread, I'm weighing heavily on the individual resume in terms of Awards, Accolades, Point Totals, Point Finishes and less to the Team Accomplishments which I think are a bit lesser in terms of an individual resume.

 

[JackSlater]

Price is the inverse of this.

His paper resume isn't great, whether by AS finishes or Vezina. But there was a five year period where he was considered the best goalie in the world.

This thread is more for a guy like Martin St. Louis. Point finishes of 1,1,2,5,6 overstates how good he is.

I did laugh that literally the first reply was the exact opposite of the purpose of the thread. Especially that the evidence that Price is worse than his resume is taking shots at Price's resume.

I think Phil Esposito was great, but the historical record probably makes him look a bit better than he was.

(By the way, I personally would have Rocket Richard and Chris Pronger in threads for where the historical record doesn't make them look as good as they were.)

Esposito was the first name I thought of. The trophies obviously make him look better than he was, in that his resume looks like a contender for top ten player ever when he isn't that. Good odds someone will take that as insulting to Esposito. I also agree that Richard and Pronger are obviously better than their resumes indicate, Pronger in particular.

I'd look at one dimensional players here, players who were in ideal situations, players who were lucky with their timing or what position (left wing outside of Hull/Ovechkin years) they played. St. Louis was mentioned and that's a great answer. I suspect that Geoffrion belongs here too. Robitaille fits here. Kane fits for me. Langway, who was one dimensional but not in the usual way, fits here. Dryden is not as good as his resume.

Obligatory Tim Thomas mention as well.

 

[Crosby2010]

I think Phil Esposito was great, but the historical record probably makes him look a bit better than he was.

(By the way, I personally would have Rocket Richard and Chris Pronger in threads for where the historical record doesn't make them look as good as they were.)

Pronger comes to mind as the guy where he was better than the surprisingly low 4 season end all-stars show, I agree.

Rocket to this day is still 8th in playoff goals with 82 and this despite playing in a lower scoring era with a maximum of two playoff rounds. Yeah, not overrated.

 

[MadLuke]

One reason Pronger resume outside 2000 is a bit low is that the nhl do not have a 6 player all star team for the playoff, only the regular season.

He could be a 3 time playoff first time all star, right now it is a bit Smythe or nothing. MIssing very often a 10-20-30 games probably being another.

2001-2007, whole 2003, the lockout, lot of seasons during his peak getting a bit burned.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I think Marian Hossa is one of these guys.

He has an impressive resume on paper but I never saw him as “the” guy on his team aside from his limited time in Atlanta with Kovalchuk where he never won a playoff series.

That's because he wasn't the guy outside of a couple years in Ottawa

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

Ron Francis was immediately who came to mind here.

 

[JackSlater]

One reason Pronger resume outside 2000 is a bit low is that the nhl do not have a 6 player all star team for the playoff, only the regular season.

He could be a 3 time playoff first time all star, right now it is a bit Smythe or nothing. MIssing very often a 10-20-30 games probably being another.

2001-2007, whole 2003, the lockout, lot of seasons during his peak getting a bit burned.

Pronger just did worse in all star voting than he should have. I mainly assume it's because he was an arsehole, pretty similar to Potvin really. There are several years where he should have made an all star team and didn't. The voting isn't even reflective of general opinion at the time, where for example during the 2000s one would think that people preferred Chara to Pronger and that was generally not true. Throw in a poorly timed injury or two and you end up with Pronger's on paper resume lagging behind his actual play/reputation.

 

[NyQuil]

That's because he wasn't the guy outside of a couple years in Ottawa

He wasn’t in Ottawa either.

That’s why they traded him.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

He wasn’t in Ottawa either.

That’s why they traded him.

I mean, he was for two seasons he was their leading scoring threat by far.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hossa has a lot of interesting things working against his reputation.

Ottawa traded him for Heatley, and their fans felt it was a justified move at the time and were stubborn about it not being a bad move. Canadian team fairly big internet presence.

Arguably his best seasons occurred in Atlanta, which doesn’t exist anymore.

Pittsburgh fans considered him a traitor and a whole “haha screw you” factor for being on losing side of 08 and 09 cups. Big internet presence, and Crosby factor made them a pretty big bandwagon follow for natural Canadians.

Detroit signed Franzen and not Hossa longterm and their fans felt it was a justified move and were stubborn about it not being a bad [albeit “unlucky”] move. Big online presence.

Chicago fans will champion him but his time was after his scoring peak so less so in a total career body of work way.

Interesting career and I think with an underrated internet presence overall based on the circumstances described above.

 

[MS]

Hossa is literally the exact opposite of the point of this thread.

He never won a major award, is a 1x 2nd Team AS, had only 2 top-10 scoring seasons with a high of 5th.

But he's in the HHOF because he was a much better player than the on-paper resume indicates.

 

[overpass]

Hossa wasn't the goal scorer that his regular season goal scoring would suggest.

He scored over 500 regular season goals, averaging 0.40/game. And he played over 200 playoff games with several teams and was consistently at or below 0.25 goals per game. Except for when he played with one of the greatest playmakers of all time in 2008.

Hossa was a great counter-attacking goal scorer. Great at scoring with the lead, great at scoring empty netters. Not a goal scorer in close, physical playoff games.

Yes, a great two way player and he and Toews were dominant together in the playoffs. But not a great goal scorer.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hossa wasn't the goal scorer that his regular season goal scoring would suggest.

He scored over 500 regular season goals, averaging 0.40/game. And he played over 200 playoff games with several teams and was consistently at or below 0.25 goals per game. Except for when he played with one of the greatest playmakers of all time in 2008.

Hossa was a great counter-attacking goal scorer. Great at scoring with the lead, great at scoring empty netters. Not a goal scorer in close, physical playoff games.

Yes, a great two way player and he and Toews were dominant together in the playoffs. But not a great goal scorer.

500 goals in a mostly low scoring era, sure didn't score that much with Chicago in the postseason (in his 30s in mostly low scoring tight western conference playoff series) but had a solid 24 goals in 61 games in the postseason Aged 23-29.

 

[JackSlater]

Hossa wasn't the goal scorer that his regular season goal scoring would suggest.

He scored over 500 regular season goals, averaging 0.40/game. And he played over 200 playoff games with several teams and was consistently at or below 0.25 goals per game. Except for when he played with one of the greatest playmakers of all time in 2008.

Hossa was a great counter-attacking goal scorer. Great at scoring with the lead, great at scoring empty netters. Not a goal scorer in close, physical playoff games.

Yes, a great two way player and he and Toews were dominant together in the playoffs. But not a great goal scorer.

Yeah Hossa wasn't really one to create his own goals. Players often use one elite tool to create goals and he didn't really have a top end shot or elite speed or Gretzky type anticipation. It was an issue for Detroit in the 2009 playoffs. I still don't understand why he didn't fit in better on that team though.

As far as resume, I don't think Hossa has a particularly notable resume and he was a great player, so it's not a choice I'd make.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It was an issue for Detroit in the 2009 playoffs. I still don't understand why he didn't fit in better on that team though.

Torn rotator cuff in shoulder. Required surgery and missed the first 22 games of 2009-10.

 

[JackSlater]

Torn rotator cuff in shoulder. Required surgery and missed the first 22 games of 2009-10.

Yes I remember he was one of the many injured in the playoffs, but more in general even in the regular season he wasn't a big difference maker. It was a disappointment. On paper Hossa should have been the perfect fit.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yes I remember he was one of the many injured in the playoffs, but more in general even in the regular season he wasn't a big difference maker. It was a disappointment. On paper Hossa should have been the perfect fit.

Scored 40 goals (5th in NHL), was almost PPG with great analytics. I wouldn't say it's disappointing