Player Discussion: Justin Holl

[keonsbitterness]

If he put the puck in the corner like he should have instead of trying a hero pass, the worst result would have been overtime.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Keefe singling out Holl to praise was weird and to me reeks of pumping trade value. He’s as good as good when lily gets back

 

[wingman75]

Anyone making excuses for Holl by pointing at who he plays with is missing the point. If you focus in on his ability to make a play, on his own, this is where he falls apart. Sure players put other players in tough situations, that happens on every shift.

What I see is a guy who is always off-balance, soft on the puck, doesn't play through the puck and has extremely low hockey IQ and vision. On top of that he seems to me to be out of position often. He also doesn't adjust or deal with a teammate putting him in a tough spot.

I don't see what he brings to the team in a shift by shift, game by game or big picture perspective. But I am not a professional coach either.

I am not sure I have ever seen a player impact the result of a play like this guy, almost always bad. He was truly awful last night. I am sure the advanced stats say he was great.

 

[The Management]

He definitely looked outright bad last night, but I don't think any of our defensemen stood out in a good way.

 

[supermann_98]

Thought Muzzin dragged him down last night. That pairing has to go. Not a holl fan by any means, but thought yesterday wasn't so much on him.

Last night Holl pinched on the near boards with like 50 seconds left and shot a puck on the Habs net, and he literally stopped in his tracks to watch the puck after he shot it. When the rebound ricocheted out he was already two steps behind the rush and then Muzzin muffed on clearing the zone when they DID get it back, Holl flopped around diving (or falling) when the shot was taken and went in. They looked worse than bad on that play. Just a couple of bumbling idiots

 

[Notsince67]

He is too good to keep. Should trade him to a team that needs a solid RD

 

[Havoc]

Plot Twist: Campbell bailed out Holl all the time and is the architect behind Holls puzzling GA/60. So flustered from the previous shift Holl was on for, he starts to crumble and gets lit up

 

[supermann_98]

He is too good to keep. Should trade him to a team that needs a solid RD

Oh yeah to Minnesota right? Because he’s from there after all the Minny scouts must be drooling at the thought of him on their roster. Especially since we protected him in the expansion draft, he’s a much better asset to have than Jared McCann

 

[HolyCrap]

he must have something on keefe/shany/dubas. he is so stupid/slow terrible; his decision making is grade 1 level.

He is horrible. Can’t stand him. Nobody with half a brain would play him.

 

[Metroid]

This is one guy I don't care to have on the team at the spot he plays. Been on the fire Holl to the sun bandwagon from the beginning lol

 

[NastyKnies]

I've said this many times before he's a glorified AHL defenceman.

 

[supermann_98]

Holl is sooooo bad

 

[fancy lad]

way better yesterday.

 

[ACC1224]

way better yesterday.

Other than some great, timely blocks he was pretty bad again. Watching him live is a sight to see, he looks totally confused.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

So through 2 games, Holl has played the 3rd most minutes.

When Lilly is healthy, I don't think he's going anywhere.

Sandin, to me, looks like the odd man out. Too slow, and Gio does a lot of what he's good at but better. He's getting a ton of Ozone starts but has still been getting buried 5v5.

Player	Age	Pos	GP	CF%	CF% rel	oZS%	dZS%	TOI/60
Morgan Rielly	28​	D	2​	56.4​	6.4​	72.7​	27.3​	21:26​
T.J. Brodie	32​	D	2​	54.5​	3.7​	66.7​	33.3​	20:39​
Justin Holl	31​	D	2​	50​	-3.1​	43.5​	56.5​	19:59​
Mark Giordano	39​	D	2​	48.3​	-5.5​	64.3​	35.7​	19:02​
Jake Muzzin	33​	D	2​	49.2​	-4.3​	41.7​	58.3​	18:40​
Rasmus Sandin	22​	D	2​	48.1​	-5.5​	64.3​	35.7​	14:29​

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Other than some great, timely blocks he was pretty bad again. Watching him live is a sight to see, he looks totally confused.

In my opinion, best case scenario going into the playoffs is to have neither Holl nor Sandin in the top 6.

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Defence first RD
Gio - Lilly

To me, you spend the assets to get a guy who will play 20+ minutes of good defensive hockey. Someone who can skate, hit, make a good pass. Might be pricey but I think we can make it work.

 

[Shooter2x]

Other than some great, timely blocks he was pretty bad again. Watching him live is a sight to see, he looks totally confused.

Failed to clear the puck multiple times on the exact same shift he's getting praised for. He better have made that block after easily getting moved off the puck more than once prior.

I mean your analysis is consistent with the complaints. He has good moments but also untrustworthy as the no.4 if your goal is to go deep.

Above average no.6 isn't a bad consolation prize when it comes to Holl. He's not an above average no.4

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Failed to clear the puck multiple times on the exact same shift he's getting praised for. He better have made that block after easily getting moved off the puck more than once prior.

I mean your analysis is consistent with the complaints. He has good moments but also untrustworthy as the no.4 if your goal is to go deep.

Above average no.6 isn't a bad consolation prize when it comes to Holl. He's not an above average no.4

Bad defence in general does cause a team to have to make more blocks. He did struggle before the good plays came. Puck shouldn't have been in our zone for one of the best goal scorers to have a one timer. Next time might not be a good outcome.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I guess he's going to be the scapegoat again. Don't think he's as bad as the constant complaining on here. Solid bottom pair defensive guy whose over utilized.

Whoever we would get to replace him, you all would hate just as much...someone mentione Lyabushkin...he was physical but pretty dog shit at defending; he'd just be the new whipping boy.

 

[Zybalto]

I guess he's going to be the scapegoat again. Don't think he's as bad as the constant complaining on here. Solid bottom pair defensive guy whose over utilized sometimes.

Whoever we would get to replace him, you all would hate just as much...someone mentione Lyabushkin...he was physical but pretty dog shit at defending; he'd just be the new whipping boy.

Yea, Muzzin and Holl are going to be whipping boys just due to their usage.

Not only are they thrown out there against the other teams best in a defensive role, Ozone starts for them so far this year: 0%

5v5 Defensive numbers for the pairing after 2 games:

Shots Against/60: 13.53 (insanely low)
xGA/60: 2.13 (still allowing a couple big chances)

Goals Against: 1 (2.19/60)

Both in the top 10 D in the NHL for blocked shots.

So far doing a relatively good job super early. All the teams need to get settled into the season though.

 

[Shooter2x]

Bad defence in general does cause a team to have to make more blocks. He did struggle before the good plays came. Puck shouldn't have been in our zone for one of the best goal scorers to have a one timer. Next time might not be a good outcome.

Ovi looked crusty as hell last night. Try that again a month from now and we're going to overtime. Get the puck out the zone when you have more than one try to win a battle and get it out. He had the puck clean on his stick at one point and didn't get it out.

 

[Al14]

If we as mere hockey fans can see the flaws Holl brings to every game, why can't the hockey professionals in Shanahan, Dubus, and especially Keefe, see how bad he is?

I coached under 18 minor hockey players with better D positioning and hockey IQ!

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Ovi looked crusty as hell last night. Try that again a month from now and we're going to overtime. Get the puck out the zone when you have more than one try to win a battle and get it out. He had the puck clean on his stick at one point and didn't get it out.

No amount of blocks can equal not giving Ovechkin a one timer in the first place. Credit to Holl for the heart shown to recover but also lets not do that again.

 

[Nineteen67]

He and Sandin in a race would be a sight to see.

 

[Shooter2x]

No amount of blocks can equal not giving Ovechkin a one timer in the first place. Credit to Holl for the heart shown to recover but also lets not do that again.

Yeah I mean sorry to be a party pooper it was a very nice display of heart but we are trying to win a cup here, not see how many Ovechkin one timers people are willing to block.

I brought up lack of blocks last year and was straight up told the lack of blocks was because we're never in the position to have to make them. So nobody try to pull any tomfoolery now. That event should not have existed in the first place in a very noticeable and obvious way since there were chances to clear.