Player Discussion: Justin Holl
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Jimmy Firecracker
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque.
- Oct 9, 2019
- 4,150
- 5,102
Nah, I'm pretty sure they legitimately think he's good.
The D looked its best last season when he had nothing to do with it.
Let's try that again.
Let's try that again.
Shooter2x
Registered User
- Nov 3, 2021
- 1,721
- 2,236
Theory: Holl is a setup man to the team or goalie breaking down.
His IQ is questionable. He's slow. Looks clumsy. Takes too long to make a play.
One of the reasons advanced stats aren't good for defenceman is because you can't measure what didn't happen. (I didn't word this properly but you can Google it. The creators of the stats agree as well)
Holls usage being so high leads to unfortunate events. Think of the multiverse branches that get created in Marvel for every possible move you could have made.
There's better branches out there for us if you remove Holl. That's probably why his advanced stats are over looked when he's benched. Yes they're good but he still reeks of inefficiency.
Standards are becoming too low here. The fervor behind defending players like Holl and Engvall is a tad absurd.
His IQ is questionable. He's slow. Looks clumsy. Takes too long to make a play.
One of the reasons advanced stats aren't good for defenceman is because you can't measure what didn't happen. (I didn't word this properly but you can Google it. The creators of the stats agree as well)
Holls usage being so high leads to unfortunate events. Think of the multiverse branches that get created in Marvel for every possible move you could have made.
There's better branches out there for us if you remove Holl. That's probably why his advanced stats are over looked when he's benched. Yes they're good but he still reeks of inefficiency.
Standards are becoming too low here. The fervor behind defending players like Holl and Engvall is a tad absurd.
fancy lad
Registered User
- Nov 22, 2021
- 734
- 1,038
i can't believe how bad his hands are. NO grace under pressure. IT's always a risk when he gets the puck deep in his end and there are oposition players skating around. Chances are he'll cough up the puck or wiff on a clearance resulting in a dangerous chance for the other team.
Hoglund4MvP
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2022
- 1,172
- 1,416
Holl is a player you have to catch during his peak prime years. Any other years you don't need to own them.
It's over now. He had some good stretches. Time to move on.
It's over now. He had some good stretches. Time to move on.
Bomber0104
Registered User
We protected this guy in the expansion draft.
Let that sink in for a minute
Let that sink in for a minute
TheDoldrums
Registered User
Tufted Titmouse
13 Cups.
- Apr 5, 2022
- 6,222
- 8,322
Holl would be fine as our #6 guy, playing 8-10mins against bottom 6 lines and killing the odd penalty. He's probably paid a little too much for that role, though.
For some reason we continue to play him in the highest leverage situations and he continues to get plowed over.
I don't think that's on the player. He's not being put into a position to succeed.
For some reason we continue to play him in the highest leverage situations and he continues to get plowed over.
I don't think that's on the player. He's not being put into a position to succeed.
Mugzy97
#StandWitness
I have felt like Muzzin has been done for a couple years now.
2 years ago the Muzzin Holl pair was great, but it's time to move on.
2 years ago the Muzzin Holl pair was great, but it's time to move on.
Mess
Global Moderator
During the broadcast the announcers even mentioned that Keefe was very pleased with Holl's play in the last couple exhibition games.
Dubas and Keefe decided to protect him in the expansion draft so they both think of him quite differently then the fan base does in general.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,096
- 62,005
Holl is 6’4” and has a long wingspan and stick for protecting with length on a team that doesn’t value those traits.
The vision seems to be an ultra skilled blueline full of guys who can make finesse skills under pressure and maintain possession all day but they realize game situations require body types like Holl to defend, disrupt and seal off walls.
So with a shortage of other options they just rely too much on him. Compounding the problem they’ve given him the green light to pinch and join the rush and all the privileges of a much better defenseman.
The vision seems to be an ultra skilled blueline full of guys who can make finesse skills under pressure and maintain possession all day but they realize game situations require body types like Holl to defend, disrupt and seal off walls.
So with a shortage of other options they just rely too much on him. Compounding the problem they’ve given him the green light to pinch and join the rush and all the privileges of a much better defenseman.
Skullz
Registered User
- Jul 5, 2013
- 800
- 1,174
Thought Muzzin dragged him down last night. That pairing has to go. Not a holl fan by any means, but thought yesterday wasn't so much on him.
I find it incredible that people are not recognizing that Holl only plays this poorly when paired with Muzzin. Like you have to be blind or incredibly biased not to notice that
Exactly. Holl is who he is: an adequate #6. Muzzin is supposed to carry that pair and he was just awful. I think he's scared of getting hurt again, and I can't really blame him. He has always had a tendency to get absolutely pasted into the end boards and just eat it but now that his injuries are mounting and his body is breaking down he just can't take it anymore. We all saw last night when he didn't want to retrieve the puck in our end with Anderson barrelling down on him. He's been one of my favorite leafs but its time to move on. When you get beat in a footrace with Gallagher something is seriously wrong.
Hoglund4MvP
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2022
- 1,172
- 1,416
Kerfoot isn't same as keeping Holl. He (kerf) is valuable. Just prefer if he move down depth chart by 1 spot. Not by manual lineup change but by another depth player being better
saffronleaf
Registered User
i hope dubas isn't keeping kerfoot around just because he needs to be able to point at something tangible in connection with trading away Stanley Cup Winner Nazem Kadri
altho kerfoot is fine, not really the problem.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,096
- 62,005
Kerfoot is a pretty good player who has a high skill level, good motor, instincts, versatility, but doesn’t have a big impact on the game. For whatever reason it’s just really a vanilla contribution.
And his skillset doesn’t bring a lot of different variables that aren’t already covered by the Big 4. And he doesn’t do purely Bottom 6 things. He’s basically an ideal player on the 2.5 Line.
Anthrax442
Registered User
Buds17
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2015
- 8,590
- 3,623
Perhaps surprisingly, Mete does bring more NHL experience than Holl. All things considered though, I'm not too sure that we're ultimately talking about an upgrade here.
Voodoo Child
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 6,682
- 3,000
I would have just kept Lyubushkin and traded Holl for a 3rd before anyone could have seen what was happening.
Not because he’s ‘better’ than Holl, but he certainly doesn’t cause as many stupid mistakes that bite the team in critical moments, and he actually hits and plays a physical game.
He’d be much better playing 12-14 a night on the 3rd pair than Holl.
I’m hoping he’s gone as soon as Liljegren is back, but I doubt it.
I’ve had it about up to here with Kyle Dubas being a complete stranger to accountability.
I am willing to mercy rule the Marner and Matthews contracts, because I’m sure he expected the cap to be 97 mil by now, which it should be.
Foligno wasn’t a failure, it was just unfortunate he got injured five minutes into his first game.
Ritchie wasn’t a failure, it was just a low-risk high-reward gamble that didn’t pay off.
Mrazek wasn’t a failure, he had injury problems and just never gelled with the team.
If he’s wrong about Murray? It bought the Leafs cap flexibility so he really wasn’t wrong.
If Holl walks for nothing or god forbid is re-signed with a raise and he costs us a game six or seven somewhere down the line, and you just know it’s going to happen? You need depth so therefore not wrong.
The Leafs lose in the first round or worse again this year he’d better be gone, Keefe too.
Not because he’s ‘better’ than Holl, but he certainly doesn’t cause as many stupid mistakes that bite the team in critical moments, and he actually hits and plays a physical game.
He’d be much better playing 12-14 a night on the 3rd pair than Holl.
I’m hoping he’s gone as soon as Liljegren is back, but I doubt it.
I’ve had it about up to here with Kyle Dubas being a complete stranger to accountability.
I am willing to mercy rule the Marner and Matthews contracts, because I’m sure he expected the cap to be 97 mil by now, which it should be.
Foligno wasn’t a failure, it was just unfortunate he got injured five minutes into his first game.
Ritchie wasn’t a failure, it was just a low-risk high-reward gamble that didn’t pay off.
Mrazek wasn’t a failure, he had injury problems and just never gelled with the team.
If he’s wrong about Murray? It bought the Leafs cap flexibility so he really wasn’t wrong.
If Holl walks for nothing or god forbid is re-signed with a raise and he costs us a game six or seven somewhere down the line, and you just know it’s going to happen? You need depth so therefore not wrong.
The Leafs lose in the first round or worse again this year he’d better be gone, Keefe too.
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