Rumor: Planning Ahead: 2019 Off-Season Part 2

[Raccoon Jesus]

Agreed. Muzzin brought back a 1st and two quality prospects. Martinez and Toffoli might have less value, but I don’t think a first for either is out of the question at all.

And hey to be clear, I'd probably prefer multiple assets than 'just' a late 1st. I just think people are underselling the value of 2nd pairing versatile d-men and goal scorers at the deadline, especially given they'd likely be thrust into depth/better roles on a contender. Though of course they need to bounce back first.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

If it's that deep, people might be more willing to part with a late 1st than multiple 2nds/3rds.

That makes no sense to me The odds of finding the better player in the first round always outweigh going into other rounds. I also never said that the other picks would be in this draft. Could be a 3rd this draft and a 2nd next year The picks might not be in this coming draft

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That makes no sense to me The odds of finding the better player in the first round always outweigh going into other rounds. I also never said that the other picks would be in this draft. Could be a 3rd this draft and a 2nd next year The picks might not be in this coming draft

Yeah, in most of those multiple-pick scenarios, it's different drafts. That makes sense.

And while the odds of a better player exist at, say, 20 than the early 2nd or something, all I'm saying is someone might want to give up a late first instead of BOTH seconds or multiple assets like a good (former 1st or 2nd pick) prospect and a 2nd. If it's that deep, the difference between 25 and 40 is nearly negligible.

 

[King'sPawn]

Great article in the Athletic by Dillman.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

Yeah, in most of those multiple-pick scenarios, it's different drafts. That makes sense.

And while the odds of a better player exist at, say, 20 than the early 2nd or something, all I'm saying is someone might want to give up a late first instead of BOTH seconds or multiple assets like a good (former 1st or 2nd pick) prospect and a 2nd. If it's that deep, the difference between 25 and 40 is nearly negligible.

Well if a team is drafting late in the first round the odds of them having having a early second is slim to none The only way they would is if they made a trade with a crap team and got a 2nd witch wouldn't make sence since the team with the low first wouldn't be acquiring futures

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well if a team is drafting late in the first round the odds of them having having a early second is slim to none The only way they would is if they made a trade with a crap team and got a 2nd witch wouldn't make sence since the team with the low first wouldn't be acquiring futures

VGK had pick #17 and pick #41 just at a quick glance.

IT happens pretty frequently as a result of movement throughout not just the current season, but previous 1-2 seasons.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

VGK had pick #17 and pick #41 just at a quick glance.

IT happens pretty frequently as a result of movement throughout not just the current season, but previous 1-2 seasons.

17 is not a late pick thou to me when ur talking late pick ur in the 20s at the the earliest Maybe nicpicking but 17 is close to half of 31

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

17 is not a late pick thou to me when ur talking late pick ur in the 20s at the the earliest Maybe nicpicking but 17 is close to half of 31

It IS nitpicking because that's a playoff team and that's a trade-deadline deal we're talking about, they don't know if it's going to be pick 17 or 26, they just hope it's lower.

It could have been pick 30 and 41.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

It IS nitpicking because that's a playoff team and that's a trade-deadline deal we're talking about, they don't know if it's going to be pick 17 or 26, they just hope it's lower.

It could have been pick 30 and 41.

Your the one sliding the bar in each post. You started out at 25 and now at 17 and there is a huge difference in quality of player u get at 17 and 41 but ok u want to slide it up that ur right i guess

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Your the one sliding the bar in each post. You started out at 25 and now at 17 and there is a huge difference in quality of player u get at 17 and 41 but ok u want to slide it up that ur right i guess

I'm not sliding anything. We are talking deadline trades, correct? Do you know what # your pick is at the deadline? That's all I'm saying.

A playoff team might opt to trade their first over multiple other picks. I'm not even trying to speak in absolutes here.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Great article in the Athletic by Dillman.

When possession was throwing pucks at the other goalie, and there were competent defensemen, and they had C's that you knew would do what they needed to do, Quick's style of play worked very well. As the team has changed, as defensemen have disappeared left and right for various reasons, as the 4C went away, as the 3C went away, like any goalie, Quick's game has gotten exposed. Other teams find the weakness, and in Quick's case, it's the over aggressiveness. Since he's not quite Hasek, that aggressive play depends on others.

When he's on that fine line between athlete and goalie, he can be amazing. When he veers into being too much of an athlete, without the quality skaters in front of him to back him up, it can be a mess, and not just last year. If he's too much of a positional goalie, that's not who he is as a player, and it doesn't even look right. That's the question. With the age, with the injuries, can he be, how much longer can he be, the athlete he needs to be? If he has to change his game, is he Jonathan Quick anymore?

It's crazy, but you don't appreciate guys like Fraser, Stoll, and even 2014 Richards to some degree, until you can't find a way to replace them, for years on end. Lecavalier was a fun option, but very specific. If it meant he was back on the left point on the PP, never hitting the net with booming slappers, would we gladly take Stoll back? Tough enough replacing high level talent. The role players have to be the right guy at the right time too.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I'm not sliding anything. We are talking deadline trades, correct? Do you know what # your pick is at the deadline? That's all I'm saying.

A playoff team might opt to trade their first over multiple other picks. I'm not even trying to speak in absolutes here.

Not sure what ur trying to say to be honest with u. I can't see how a team would rather trade there top pick over lower picks especially when the 2 picks wouldn't be in the same year. In a year where there are great players for the 1st round or so team aren't going to be as likely to trade there first . I think teams would rather go 2nd round and add a pick in the following draft. I can't see a team perfering to trade a first rather then a 2nd and say 3rd in next years draft

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Kings GM knows a return to Stanley Cup contention leans on prospect development

[URL="https://www.latimes.com/sports/hockey/story/2019-09-17/kings-minor-league-pipeline-for-wednesday-print"]Kings GM knows a return to Stanley Cup contention leans on prospect development[/URL]
Blake has repeatedly testified to his missteps — how under his watch the Kings have slipped from playoff contention, hired three coaches in three years, whiffed on ambitious free-agent signings and lost the disciplined culture that led to two Stanley Cup championships.

//

(...)

Blake had a part in many of those decisions, having joined the Kings’ front office as an assistant general manager in 2013. But once he replaced Lombardi at the end of the 2016-2017 season, he pulled the Kings out of the league’s buyer’s market. He decided it was time to change course.
“That was our focus right from Day 1,” Blake said.
In their three drafts under Blake, the Kings have made four first-round picks, four second-round picks and 23 selections overall. Last year, they had four picks in the first two rounds, their most since 2003.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Kings GM knows a return to Stanley Cup contention leans on prospect development

Kings GM knows a return to Stanley Cup contention leans on prospect development
Blake has repeatedly testified to his missteps — how under his watch the Kings have slipped from playoff contention, hired three coaches in three years, whiffed on ambitious free-agent signings and lost the disciplined culture that led to two Stanley Cup championships.

//

(...)

Blake had a part in many of those decisions, having joined the Kings’ front office as an assistant general manager in 2013. But once he replaced Lombardi at the end of the 2016-2017 season, he pulled the Kings out of the league’s buyer’s market. He decided it was time to change course.
“That was our focus right from Day 1,” Blake said.
In their three drafts under Blake, the Kings have made four first-round picks, four second-round picks and 23 selections overall. Last year, they had four picks in the first two rounds, their most since 2003.

Blake might turn out to be a good GM after all lol Ala Yzerman. The important thing is him and the drafting team have made the picks count . Kupari was a great pick I think he is going to be better than we expect . The Bjornfot pick we second guessed seems like we were wrong . Anderson is a steal , Vilardi if he ever gets healthy might be the 2nd best player of the draft. And Fagemo might be the biggest steal of 2019. He’s still a kid and has lot of growing to do but looks like a top 6 player in the making . He’s going to be on the team sooner rather than later it seems and might end up being a Star ; never know . Lot of interesting potential honestly with these players . Can’t wait to see how we perform this year and how the prospects develop. In 3 years we can have a great balanced lineup . Some prospects will be traded for stars already proven in the NHL to propel us towards another championship . Also he took Dubas to the cleaners with the Muzzin trade . I’m not convinced Grundstrom is only going to be a 3rd liner . Let’s get this season started already !

 

[kings11]

Blake might turn out to be a good GM after all lol Ala Yzerman. The important thing is him and the drafting team have made the picks count . Kupari was a great pick I think he is going to be better than we expect . The Bjornfot pick we second guessed seems like we were wrong . Anderson is a steal , Vilardi if he ever gets healthy might be the 2nd best player of the draft. And Fagemo might be the biggest steal of 2019. He’s still a kid and has lot of growing to do but looks like a top 6 player in the making . He’s going to be on the team sooner rather than later it seems and might end up being a Star ; never know . Lot of interesting potential honestly with these players . Can’t wait to see how we perform this year and how the prospects develop. In 3 years we can have a great balanced lineup . Some prospects will be traded for stars already proven in the NHL to propel us towards another championship . Also he took Dubas to the cleaners with the Muzzin trade . I’m not convinced Grundstrom is only going to be a 3rd liner . Let’s get this season started already !

That Amadio-Grundstrom pairing might be better than any of us could have imagined .. here's hoping the kids get rewarded for kicking ass

 

[Choralone]

Blake might turn out to be a good GM after all lol Ala Yzerman. The important thing is him and the drafting team have made the picks count . Kupari was a great pick I think he is going to be better than we expect . The Bjornfot pick we second guessed seems like we were wrong. Anderson is a steal , Vilardi if he ever gets healthy might be the 2nd best player of the draft. And Fagemo might be the biggest steal of 2019. He’s still a kid and has lot of growing to do but looks like a top 6 player in the making . He’s going to be on the team sooner rather than later it seems and might end up being a Star ; never know . Lot of interesting potential honestly with these players . Can’t wait to see how we perform this year and how the prospects develop. In 3 years we can have a great balanced lineup . Some prospects will be traded for stars already proven in the NHL to propel us towards another championship . Also he took Dubas to the cleaners with the Muzzin trade . I’m not convinced Grundstrom is only going to be a 3rd liner . Let’s get this season started already !

Ahem. Seems like half of us were wrong.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Blake might turn out to be a good GM after all lol Ala Yzerman. The important thing is him and the drafting team have made the picks count . Kupari was a great pick I think he is going to be better than we expect . The Bjornfot pick we second guessed seems like we were wrong . Anderson is a steal , Vilardi if he ever gets healthy might be the 2nd best player of the draft. And Fagemo might be the biggest steal of 2019. He’s still a kid and has lot of growing to do but looks like a top 6 player in the making . He’s going to be on the team sooner rather than later it seems and might end up being a Star ; never know . Lot of interesting potential honestly with these players . Can’t wait to see how we perform this year and how the prospects develop. In 3 years we can have a great balanced lineup . Some prospects will be traded for stars already proven in the NHL to propel us towards another championship . Also he took Dubas to the cleaners with the Muzzin trade . I’m not convinced Grundstrom is only going to be a 3rd liner . Let’s get this season started already !

A lot of hit and miss with Blake, but for me the drafting has been our current administration's strength. I question everything else he's done, but i don't want to get into that before i get bombarded by one particular dude

Regardless, a rebuild should last 3-5yrs (closer to 3 considering the cap era), so time will definitely tell...

 

[kings11]

Ahem. Seems like half of us were wrong.

Those Idiots!!!

 

[kings11]

A lot of hit and miss with Blake, but for me the drafting has been our current administration's strength. I question everything else he's done, but i don't want to get into that before i get bombarded by one particular dude

Regardless, a rebuild should last 3-5yrs (closer to 3 considering the cap era), so time will definitely tell...

Hit and miss for me has come in the crappy coaching hires. The drafting has been top notch and other than Kovy, his signings have some common sense to them.. oh and his trades have been pretty good to

 

[BigKing]

Again, with Bjornfot, it is the idea of taking the double when this team needs a bunch of home runs.

They got AK anyways and everyone understands the reasoning behind why they took him when they did. It doesn't mean that, in the moment, those that didn't like the pick were wrong. All's well that ends well but those that were defending the pick in the moment were very much buoyed by AK falling to the Kings the next day. Without that happening, the debate would be raging on.

Just to play devil's advocate, what if Bjornfot looks so good because he's mostly maxed out and hit his ceiling? Not saying he has but that is kind of the knock on him, no? Safe player, not a lot of untapped upside etc.

 

[kings11]

Again, with Bjornfot, it is the idea of taking the double when this team needs a bunch of home runs.

They got AK anyways and everyone understands the reasoning behind why they took him when they did. It doesn't mean that, in the moment, those that didn't like the pick were wrong. All's well that ends well but those that were defending the pick in the moment were very much buoyed by AK falling to the Kings the next day. Without that happening, the debate would be raging on.

Just to play devil's advocate, what if Bjornfot looks so good because he's mostly maxed out and hit his ceiling? Not saying he has but that is kind of the knock on him, no? Safe player, not a lot of untapped upside etc.

Then we just found a top 4 Dman who will steady the 2nd pairing and eats up huge minutes in all situations.. Now if he continues to expand his offense, well then.... we could have something more.
I still think if he turns into another Ryan McDonagh, we'll be pretty happy... Looks like a great comp so far..

 

[BigKing]

The we just found a top 4 Dman who will steady the 2nd pairing and eats up huge minutes in all situations.. Now if he continues to expand his offense, well then.... we could have something more.
I still think if he turns into another Ryan McDonagh, we'll be pretty happy... Looks like a great comp so far..

Of course. You'd take Ryan McD even higher than 22OA.

Bjornfot could also actually be a real good bottom pairing guy as opposed to Top 4. What he definitely seems like is an NHL player. Due to this, the people that were "wrong" on draft night weren't generally down on the player but rather down on not taking a swing at a player with a higher potential impact.

That isn't me discrediting a potential 2nd pairing defenseman but rather emphasizing the importance of a potential 30 goal scorer over a 2nd pairing defenseman for a franchise that has been bereft of goal scoring prospects for what seems like ages.

But Blake gambled on AK still being there and, just like any risky bet you win, they sweated it out but were proven right in the end. I'm very happy about that and pleased to have both in the system; however, I'd be less happy if it was Bjornfot and no AK: extremely less.

 

[KINGS17]

I look at Bjornfot being taken in the first round as the equivalent of Trevor Lewis being taken in the first round. Only it's better, because Bjornfot is a defenseman who may play in the top 4.

 

[kings11]

Of course. You'd take Ryan McD even higher than 22OA.

Bjornfot could also actually be a real good bottom pairing guy as opposed to Top 4. What he definitely seems like is an NHL player. Due to this, the people that were "wrong" on draft night weren't generally down on the player but rather down on not taking a swing at a player with a higher potential impact.

That isn't me discrediting a potential 2nd pairing defenseman but rather emphasizing the importance of a potential 30 goal scorer over a 2nd pairing defenseman for a franchise that has been bereft of goal scoring prospects for what seems like ages.

But Blake gambled on AK still being there and, just like any risky bet you win, they sweated it out but were proven right in the end. I'm very happy about that and pleased to have both in the system; however, I'd be less happy if it was Bjornfot and no AK: extremely less.

We'll i wouldnt say they sweated it out because they actually got both the wingers they were targeting with that pick in Arthur and Samuel... add in Brink whom I believe was the other kid on the board
We blinded ourselves into thinking we needed to load up on offensive players when the reality was/is that 22OA was always going to be the BPA and that happened to be Bjornfot then and now. Arthur Kaliyev is irrelevant when having this conversation, would we feel differently had we landed Brink? Lavoie?
Bolded is the wrong way to think when it comes to drafting players because you paint yourself into a corner and select a kid who is much lower on your board for a perceived weakness. ... That's how we landed Hickey!