Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Clever Thread Title Needed

[HandshakeLine]

That is not "plenty of cash" to fill those two needs. You might be able to fill one of those holes if you do that.

Nah, you can fill two if one of the Poulin/Legare Thicc Boyz Club can fill in on the 3rd, and McCann goes to the 2nd line, or vice versa. But that's the real key is whether or not POJ or another cheap contract like Thickums can step up and contend.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Nah, you can fill two if one of the Poulin/Legare Thicc Boyz Club can fill in on the 3rd, and McCann goes to the 2nd line, or vice versa. But that's the real key is whether or not POJ or another cheap contract like Thickums can step up and contend.

Yeah but that's not exactly what I was getting at

If you're filling the 2nd line LW (or 3rd line LW with McCann moving up) via UFA, you're pretty limited for what you can actually bring up. I ran it quickly in capfriendly and I'm at about $12 million with needing to sign Zohorna, Blueger, ERod, a 2nd/3rd line LWer and a 2nd/3rd pair RD, and that's assuming that you can move Pettersson without taking money back.

If you actually want to add a 2nd/3rd line winger and a 2nd/3rd pair D in UFA, I think you probably need to go cheap on one of those positions. Even in an optimistic scenario, you won't be able to pull off say Hyman and Ceci without a cap increase.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

That is not "plenty of cash" to fill those two needs. You might be able to fill one of those holes if you do that.

It's absolutely plenty of cash.

Jake 6 - Sid 8.7 - Rust 3.5
? - Geno 9.5 - Kap 3.2
McCann 2.9 - Carter 2.6 - Tanev 3.5
Zoho .8 - TB 2 - E-Rod 1.25

Dumo 4 - Letang 7.25
Matheson 4.9 - ?
POJ .86/Friedman .725 - Marino 4.4

Jarry 3.5
DeSmith 1.25

With POJ - $70.11 million. With Friedman $69.975 million.

You can chase Hyman or Coleman or Bennett or Schwartz whoever you want for the final forward spot and either keep Ceci around if you want (the devil you know, etc) or find someone else in FA or via trade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's absolutely plenty of cash.

Jake 6 - Sid 8.7 - Rust 3.5
? - Geno 9.5 - Kap 3.2
McCann 2.9 - Carter 2.6 - Tanev 3.5
Zoho .8 - TB 2 - E-Rod 1.25

Dumo 4 - Letang 7.25
Matheson 4.9 - ?
POJ .86/Friedman .725 - Marino 4.4

Jarry 3.5
DeSmith 1.25

With POJ - $70.11 million. With Friedman $69.975 million.

You're not including Johnson's buyout and Blueger and ERod are most likely signing for way more than $3.25 million combined. You also have to have a 23 man roster, not a 20 man roster.

With reasonable projections for what their contracts would look like, you're probably limited to around $6 million between a 2nd/3rd pair RD and a 2nd/3rd line LWer in total, and that's if you're okay with entering the year with little cap space.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah but that's not exactly what I was getting at

If you're filling the 2nd line LW (or 3rd line LW with McCann moving up) via UFA, you're pretty limited for what you can actually bring up. I ran it quickly in capfriendly and I'm at about $12 million with needing to sign Zohorna, Blueger, ERod, a 2nd/3rd line LWer and a 2nd/3rd pair RD, and that's assuming that you can move Pettersson without taking money back.

If you actually want to add a 2nd/3rd line winger and a 2nd/3rd pair D in UFA, I think you probably need to go cheap on one of those positions. Even in an optimistic scenario, you won't be able to pull off say Hyman and Ceci without a cap increase.

Oh, right. I guess I just kind of assumed in my head that we would pick one in UFA and fill the rest internally, because that's clearly the best option.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For reference, what I have on capfriendly right now is:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
McCann-Malkin-Kapanen
XXXXX-Carter-Tanev
XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX
Angello

Dumoulin-Letang
POJ-Marino
Matheson-XXXXX
Friedman-Ruhwedel

Jarry-DeSmith

This costs $69.6 million after you include performance bonuses and Johnson's buyout. If you're okay with going into the year with no cap space, you only have about $11.9 million to fill out those 5 spots. You could go ultra cheap on the 4th line around Blueger and go with something like Zohorna-Blueger-Lafferty, which would leave the Penguins with around $7.5 million to add a 3rd line LWer and a 3rd pair RD (again, if you're fine with no cap going into the year).

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

That is not "plenty of cash" to fill those two needs. You will be able to fill one of those holes if you do that, not both unless you go with cheap options (as in probably worse than McCann on Malkin's LW).

Edit: actually it depends on what Blueger and ERod sign for.

Geno's winger will probably end up being between $5 million and $6 million. That gives you another $4 million or so to find Matheson's partner if you don't want to keep Ceci. If E-Rod wants too much, we have replacements in guys like Angello or, hell, even Lafferty (who I can't really stand). But we're talking about a 4th line spot. You figure out how to finalize Geno's wing, decide what direction to take with Matheson's partner (Ceci or roll the dice with a new guy) and worry about the 12th forward later.

 

[Peat]

I think this is probably the best option. I'm tentatively fine with keeping ZAR, but it should be something like ZAR-Blueger-Lafferty as the 4th line with Tanev on the 3rd line.

I'm also not sure I like the idea of shipping out Matheson or Pettersson, both of who I still think the Penguins need, just to get a luxury upgrade on the 3rd line. I don't know that you should go Zohorna-Carter-Tanev on the 3rd line to start, but I don't think you need a Coleman caliber guy or a McCann caliber guy on that line either.

Right now I'm not sure what's happening with the D, or what should be happening with the D, I just think it's a logical place to look for savings.

I also think our depth scoring's been a really huge part of this season and would like to push hard for it to continue.

So our LW will either be McCann, Guentzel, Zucker or we have to sign someone right?

On the third line?

Honestly, I think leaving 3LW open for one of Zohorna/O'Connor/Poulin makes a bunch of sense. One of them should be able to do it. However, in this scenario, I'd like the rest of the third line to be guys I really trust to bring it. McCann-Carter intrigues me (slide Carter to RW). Carter-?? intrigues me, particularly if you can grab a RW who can potentially move up to fill the Rust spot next season (or just fill it now and move Rust to 3RW).

Zohorna-Carter-Tanev, I want a little more.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Geno's winger will probably end up being between $5 million and $6 million. That gives you another $4 million or so to find Matheson's partner if you don't want to keep Ceci. If E-Rod wants too much, we have replacements in guys like Angello or, hell, even Lafferty (who I can't really stand). But we're talking about a 4th line spot. You figure out how to finalize Geno's wing, decide what direction to take with Matheson's partner (Ceci or roll the dice with a new guy) and worry about the 12th forward later.

I think the issue is I don't think you can reasonably do this unless you go cheap with one of the first 2 options, or go modestly priced with both.

If you move Pettersson, you can probably afford to sign a $3 million winger and a $3 million defenseman. If you want to go higher on one of those, you'll need to take it away from the other. I think this also becomes even tighter if the Penguins re-sign ZAR, although I don't think there would be a drastic difference if they sign ERod vs if they sign ZAR. I think ERod is in the $1.5-$2 million range while ZAR's in the $2-$2.5 million range.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the issue is I don't think you can reasonably do this unless you go cheap with one of the first 2 options, or go modestly priced with both.

If you move Pettersson, you can probably afford to sign a $3 million winger and a $3 million defenseman. If you want to go higher on one of those, you'll need to take it away from the other. I think this also becomes even tighter if the Penguins re-sign ZAR, although I don't think there would be a drastic difference if they sign ERod vs if they sign ZAR. I think ERod is in the $1.5-$2 million range while ZAR's in the $2-$2.5 million range.

I'd have really liked us to be in on Bennett for this reason. I don't think anyone expected him to do what he's done in Florida, but he fits the mold of what I think the Geno+Kap line wants in that last piece and you had a chance to give the guy a trial run before deciding on whether or not to commit to him this summer.

I've liked what I've seen in the very limited time Zoho's been given, but I think you're overstepping by putting him anywhere above the 4th line to start. Not you in particular, but in general. I've seen people suggest he gets time with Geno and Kap, I've seen people say he should be with McCann and Carter full time right now, etc. That's wild to me. Dude's got a handful of games at the NHL level and a couple have been really good. Lafferty also looked great in his first showing, and I don't even think he's a bona fide NHLer tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the idea I've come around to is:

1. Re-signing both ZAR and Blueger and planning on your bottom-6 being Carter-Tanev and ZAR-Blueger duos with Zohorna, Lafferty, Angello, Poulin, Legare and cheap UFA signings (similar to Rodrigues last year) rotating through the other spots.
2. Keeping the D in tact while just letting Ruhwedel slide up into Ceci's vacated spot and keeping POJ in WBS to marinade for longer.
3. Let the remaining $2+ million in cap space prorate until you can add more later in the season

If you assume ZAR and Blueger combine for $5 million and Zohorna for near league minimum, you'll have about $2.25 million in cap space to begin the year, which would prorate into about $6 million near the deadline. I don't think that bottom-6 is cup caliber, but you also don't need a cup caliber team on day 1 in the regular season.

 

[Peat]

I'd have really liked us to be in on Bennett for this reason. I don't think anyone expected him to do what he's done in Florida, but he fits the mold of what I think the Geno+Kap line wants in that last piece and you had a chance to give the guy a trial run before deciding on whether or not to commit to him this summer.

I've liked what I've seen in the very limited time Zoho's been given, but I think you're overstepping by putting him anywhere above the 4th line to start. Not you in particular, but in general. I've seen people suggest he gets time with Geno and Kap, I've seen people say he should be with McCann and Carter full time right now, etc. That's wild to me. Dude's got a handful of games at the NHL level and a couple have been really good. Lafferty also looked great in his first showing, and I don't even think he's a bona fide NHLer tbh.

Depends what the 4th line's identity is going to be. If it's just going to be the line that gets 8 to 10 minutes and isn't heavily leaned on then, yeah, great, stick him in.

If it's the line that's routinely being asked to stop the NHL's best and brightest from running amok and gets 1 scoring zone start vs bad opposition every five games, then that's probably not the place for Zohorna. Don't want to promote him too high, but don't want to throw him to the wolves either.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also just as an aside, looking closer at the Penguins cap and trying to put together what I want the team to be next year just further convinces me that Zucker is an absolute luxury that should be left exposed in the expansion draft.

They just flat out don't have the money for him anymore. Him being taken in the expansion draft would be a pretty ideal outcome from a salary cap POV.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My ideal outcome from this summer;

Petts taken by Seattle
Zucker for a 2nd or solid prospect
Riikola dumped
Ceci re-signed at a reasonable price, even if it takes an extra year or two of term
POJ and Friedman battle it out for the final spot on the bottom pairing
Sign Hyman, with Coleman and Bennett as backup options

Jake-Sid-Rust = 18.2
Kap-Geno-Hyman = 18.2
McCann-Carter-Tanev = 9
Zoho-TB-Poulin = 3.95
Angello .725

Dumo-Letang = 11.35
Matheson-Ceci = 7.9
POJ/Friedman-Marino = 5.26 / 5.125
Ruhwedel .75

Jarry 3.5
DeSmith 1.25

JJ's buyout - 1.17
Bjugs comes off the books this summer, I think, right?

Total 81.255 with POJ, Ceci @ $3, Hyman @ 5.5

It might be time to see if Matheson-Marino sinks or swims as the 2nd pairing, tbh. Marino's got his new deal, so he's gotta start earning it. Allows you to run a POJ-Friedman bottom pairing (I thiiiink I remember Friedman being fine on either side).

I don't know. It's tough. That extra little blip from JR's genius experiment with JJ really hurts more than ~$1.2 million should.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Y'all are sleeping on DOC.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Y'all are sleeping on DOC.

Man I really didn't see a damn thing from DOC in his time with the team. Maybe he found another level in the AHL but he was completely invisible to me. /shrug

 

[Extra Texture]

A list of LWers I'd like to sign, in order of preference:

1. Landeskog

Good shout, he would be a hell of a get, but probably far too rich for our blood.

What's the scuttlebutt about him and the Avs? I figured he was certain to come back, and they were just waiting until after the Seattle draft to do a deal. But at the same time, he's 28 going on 29, MacKinnon is clearly the leader on that team now, and he is likely to command a big number for an extension. If the Avs banked that 20 million+ in cap space, decided to be players in free agency with other targets (at a time when there will be few clubs out there) I also wouldnt be shocked. I even saw their name thrown around in the Eichel conversation, and they've got the assets and

On another note, kind of bananas that Landeskog signed his current deal in 2014 to go from being a 21 year old right up until late 20s free agency.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Man I really didn't see a damn thing from DOC in his time with the team. Maybe he found another level in the AHL but he was completely invisible to me. /shrug

He's looked pretty dang good in WBS. And don't forget, he went right from College to the NHL which, I think, is quite rare. Having him start in the AHL, in hindsight, was probably the right thing to do with DOC.

 

[Darren McCord]

Man I really didn't see a damn thing from DOC in his time with the team. Maybe he found another level in the AHL but he was completely invisible to me. /shrug

He did. Also he was playing largely with Jank who seem to make everyone worse, while the team was playing garbage. It was alot to ask a college FA to step right in. ZAR is a good example. DOC will probably progress similar and cost half the money. I think DOC is the reason you let ZAR walk.

 

[Gurglesons]

DOC was also forced to play with Jankowski for his entire time up so I'm not sure what was to be expected.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

DOC has also been playing some Center and has not looked out of place.

 

[Tom Hanks]

DOC was also forced to play with Jankowski for his entire time up so I'm not sure what was to be expected.

 

[Darren McCord]

DOC was also forced to play with Jankowski for his entire time up so I'm not sure what was to be expected.

Its crazy how long ago that feels. This team has moved on from Jank quickly and has lost no sleep about it. Is he even in the top 15 forwards any more

Erod/Gaudreau (whoever doesnt make the lineup is 13th)
Angello
Zohorna
Lafferty


Jank

 

[Gurglesons]

Its crazy how long ago that feels. This team has moved on from Jank quickly and has lost no sleep about it. Is he even in the top 15 forwards any more

Erod/Gaudreau (whoever doesnt make the lineup is 13th)
Angello
Zohorna
Lafferty


Jank

It really sucks that Jankowski didn’t work out. But like now Carter Blueger is our bottom six Cs.

 

[Darren McCord]

It really sucks that Jankowski didn’t work out. But like now Carter Blueger is our bottom six Cs.

Ya it sucks because I think he the ability to become a good 4th line center. It just didn't work out.

The Carter trade has made this lineup so much better. Not even just because of how good he's been, but the lineup just is so much more solid. Him and McCann have been great together. They now have 4 true line pairings.

Jake - Sid
Geno - Kap
McCann - Carter
TB - Tanev

You can shift the rest of your lineup as need but those core pairings are so strong.