Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[cygnus47]

In the discussion it also mentioned Mark Stone. Rossi, Strome, Stone, etc all highlight the idea that you can be an NHL regular and have success even if you're not an elite skater as long as you have several other tools that make up for it. Positioning, IQ, passing, shooting, and moving "good enough" can get him to where we need him to be.

Tavares made huge strides with his skating too, was the first one I thought of. He became an average+ NHL skater after being horrible his first couple years.

 

[Ulf5]

Another young player to WBS.
Mats Lindgren 19yo turns 20 in August

Mats Lindgren - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Mats Lindgren, 2004-08-26 North Vancouver, BC, CAN Canada. Most recently in the undefined with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Originally drafted 2022 by the sabres .

WBS actually have some interesting players on AHL deals this year in Beck, Calvert, Klaasen and Lindgren.
Would be nice if some of them play good enough to earn an ELC contract later on.

Was pretty confident we would add another in Jelsma, but he hasn't signed yet, so I guess we'll see if it happens.

Got him not necessarily because he sucks but because he never agreed to a contract with Buffalo. So I guess there's a slim chance he doesn't suck and turns into something.

Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins sign former Sabres prospect Mats Lindgren

The Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins signed defenseman Mats Lindgren to a one-year American Hockey League contract on Friday. A left-handed shot, the 19-year-old Lindgren (6-foot, 182 pounds) was a fourth-round draft pick (No. 106 overall) in 2022 by the Buffalo Sabres but never signed with that...

triblive.com

 

[Jacob]

Certainly a large quantity of guys on AHL deals, hopefully a couple can earn NHL contracts.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Draisaitl's skating was once considered a shortcoming.

 

[Rudy Russo]

Another young player to WBS.
Mats Lindgren 19yo turns 20 in August

Mats Lindgren - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Mats Lindgren, 2004-08-26 North Vancouver, BC, CAN Canada. Most recently in the undefined with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Originally drafted 2022 by the sabres .

WBS actually have some interesting players on AHL deals this year in Beck, Calvert, Klaasen and Lindgren.
Would be nice if some of them play good enough to earn an ELC contract later on.

Was pretty confident we would add another in Jelsma, but he hasn't signed yet, so I guess we'll see if it happens.

The hockey writers in their 2022/2023 top ten Buffalo prospects had his at #10, but their 2023-2024 ranks he was not listed.
BufHockeyNow on 8/26/2023 had him at #21 in their prospect lists.
This is the write up from the hockey writers-
Lindgren was taken by Buffalo at this past summer’s draft in 2022 during the fourth round. Touted for his speed and offensive creativity, he projects to be a top-four defenseman that can move the puck and quarterback a power play. His skating is smooth and quick, but where he needs improvement is in his defensive awareness and size. He stands at 6-foot and weighs in at 176 pounds, so he will need to bulk up a bit in order to compete properly at the NHL level.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I feel that skating is simultaneously hideously overrated and also one of the hardest parts of the game to change, hence my asking. I just am skeptical whenever someone is like "well so and so just needs to get stronger/skate better/get a quicker release" at the age of 20-21.

 

[HandshakeLine]

In the discussion it also mentioned Mark Stone. Rossi, Strome, Stone, etc all highlight the idea that you can be an NHL regular and have success even if you're not an elite skater as long as you have several other tools that make up for it. Positioning, IQ, passing, shooting, and moving "good enough" can get him to where we need him to be.

I think there's also a huge assumption sometimes that speed is always going to be king in the NHL, and at some point, there's going to be a reaction against it. Teams are going to figure out that you can slow play down again, refs are going to stop calling penalties as much, and players are going to bulk up and play physical.

 

[eXile3]

I feel that skating is simultaneously hideously overrated and also one of the hardest parts of the game to change, hence my asking. I just am skeptical whenever someone is like "well so and so just needs to get stronger/skate better/get a quicker release" at the age of 20-21.

I see it like drafting a QB or pitcher and trying to change their delivery. They’ve probably doing it that way for most, if not all their lives. Especially during developmental years. It’s going to be very hard to correct. That’s why I think a lot of players that have improved their skating has more to do with getting into a strength and conditioning program in the NHL or in college. They add speed and explosiveness by adding strength.

Just a theory of mine though.

I think there's also a huge assumption sometimes that speed is always going to be king in the NHL, and at some point, there's going to be a reaction against it. Teams are going to figure out that you can slow play down again, refs are going to stop calling penalties as much, and players are going to bulk up and play physical.

Why would the NHL allow that? Didn’t they break rating records in this years SCF? Neither the NFL nor the NBA regressed when they saw people wanted to see talented offensive players.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

	st ivany j
10​	pieniniemi e
9​	howe t
	hallander f
8​	poulin s
7​	ilyin m
6​	murashov s

The top 5 and then the entire list with a little bit more info:

Text version:

Spoiler

rank	player	ceiling	potential	max p/82	readiness	overall	std%
1	yager b	f - first - all star	6.4	53	3.4	58.2	89.6%
2	blomqvist j	goalie - g nhl - starter	5.6	n/a	7.0	57.1	87.8%
3	pickering o	d - top - star	5.4	37	2.8	49.1	75.5%
4	ponomaryov v	f - second - two way	4.6	37	6.1	48.3	74.3%
5	koivunen v	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	6.7	48.0	73.8%
6	murashov s	goalie - g nhl - starter	5.4	n/a	3.9	45.6	70.2%
7	ilyin m	f - second - two way	4.5	37	5.7	44.4	68.4%
8	poulin s	f - third - complimentary	3.3	27	6.0	43.7	67.2%
9	howe t	f - second - two way	4.3	35	3.1	38.9	59.8%
10	pieniniemi e	d - middle - two way	3.6	24	4.8	37.8	58.2%
11	gauthier t	goalie - g nhl - backup	3.5	n/a	5.0	35.6	54.7%
12	swanson m	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	2.4	34.1	52.4%
13	plante z	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	2.1	33.8	52.0%
14	jarventie e	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	2.0	32.9	50.5%
15	gruden j	f - fourth - complimentary	2.5	21	5.5	32.7	50.4%
16	kral f	d - bottom - complimentary	2.5	17	5.9	32.6	50.1%
17	brunicke h	d - middle - two way	3.6	24	2.1	32.3	49.7%
18	ludvig j	d - bottom - defense only	2.4	16	5.5	32.0	49.2%
19	broz t	f - third - scorer	3.4	28	2.5	31.9	49.1%
20	tankov k	f - second - complimentary	3.8	31	2.5	31.2	48.0%
21	belliveau i	d - bottom - complimentary	2.5	17	4.6	29.2	44.9%
22	lucius c	f - third - two way	3.2	26	2.5	28.9	44.5%
23	foster c	f - third - two way	3.2	26	2.6	28.7	44.1%
24	vaisanen j	d - bottom - two way	2.7	18	2.4	24.6	37.9%
25	pietila c	d - bottom - two way	2.7	18	2.1	24.5	37.7%
26	harding f	d - bottom - two way	2.7	18	2.0	23.2	35.6%
27	ansons r	f - extra - complimentary	1.5	12	4.5	22.5	34.6%
28	yoder c	f - fourth - two way	2.4	20	1.6	20.9	32.2%
29	devlin l	f - fourth - two way	2.4	20	1.2	20.2	31.0%
30	laatsch d	d - bottom - defense only	2.2	15	1.8	19.4	29.8%
31	kangas k	d - bottom - defense only	2.2	15	1.5	18.7	28.8%
32	frasca j	minor - two way	0.8	7	4.1	16.5	25.4%

 

[Ulf5]

The top 5 and then the entire list with a little bit more info:

Text version:

Spoiler

rank	player	ceiling	potential	max p/82	readiness	overall	std%
1	yager b	f - first - all star	6.4	53	3.4	58.2	89.6%
2	blomqvist j	goalie - g nhl - starter	5.6	n/a	7.0	57.1	87.8%
3	pickering o	d - top - star	5.4	37	2.8	49.1	75.5%
4	ponomaryov v	f - second - two way	4.6	37	6.1	48.3	74.3%
5	koivunen v	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	6.7	48.0	73.8%
6	murashov s	goalie - g nhl - starter	5.4	n/a	3.9	45.6	70.2%
7	ilyin m	f - second - two way	4.5	37	5.7	44.4	68.4%
8	poulin s	f - third - complimentary	3.3	27	6.0	43.7	67.2%
9	howe t	f - second - two way	4.3	35	3.1	38.9	59.8%
10	pieniniemi e	d - middle - two way	3.6	24	4.8	37.8	58.2%
11	gauthier t	goalie - g nhl - backup	3.5	n/a	5.0	35.6	54.7%
12	swanson m	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	2.4	34.1	52.4%
13	plante z	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	2.1	33.8	52.0%
14	jarventie e	f - second - scorer	4.3	35	2.0	32.9	50.5%
15	gruden j	f - fourth - complimentary	2.5	21	5.5	32.7	50.4%
16	kral f	d - bottom - complimentary	2.5	17	5.9	32.6	50.1%
17	brunicke h	d - middle - two way	3.6	24	2.1	32.3	49.7%
18	ludvig j	d - bottom - defense only	2.4	16	5.5	32.0	49.2%
19	broz t	f - third - scorer	3.4	28	2.5	31.9	49.1%
20	tankov k	f - second - complimentary	3.8	31	2.5	31.2	48.0%
21	belliveau i	d - bottom - complimentary	2.5	17	4.6	29.2	44.9%
22	lucius c	f - third - two way	3.2	26	2.5	28.9	44.5%
23	foster c	f - third - two way	3.2	26	2.6	28.7	44.1%
24	vaisanen j	d - bottom - two way	2.7	18	2.4	24.6	37.9%
25	pietila c	d - bottom - two way	2.7	18	2.1	24.5	37.7%
26	harding f	d - bottom - two way	2.7	18	2.0	23.2	35.6%
27	ansons r	f - extra - complimentary	1.5	12	4.5	22.5	34.6%
28	yoder c	f - fourth - two way	2.4	20	1.6	20.9	32.2%
29	devlin l	f - fourth - two way	2.4	20	1.2	20.2	31.0%
30	laatsch d	d - bottom - defense only	2.2	15	1.8	19.4	29.8%
31	kangas k	d - bottom - defense only	2.2	15	1.5	18.7	28.8%
32	frasca j	minor - two way	0.8	7	4.1	16.5	25.4%

Any past lists where all the prospects have "graduated"? Asking for a friend.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Any past lists where all the prospects have "graduated"? Asking for a friend.

Just a screenshot of Excel:

Edit: from Lindberg and down, the % obviously needs to be fixed. But if you want to calculate the % yourself go ahead and divide "overall" by 65.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas knows the key to the Pens going forward is going from all in to going to prospects for the coming transition of the roster to younger talent. For now, the trend is building the farm system and scouting, development and competition for roster spots. I do think Pens were looking for RH D this draft as a priority despite the best player available mantra, Hopefully next draft, RW is the priority.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The Penguins are at 49/50 contracts, yet they signed Howe first. Could be that they view him as more NHL ready or something completely different like Howe being in debt and needing the money asap. Regardless, Yager isn't getting signed until a contract gets moved out

OR, they sign him as the 50th contract. Who is more important than him for the No. 50 contract?

 

[Tom Hanks]

OR, they sign him as the 50th contract. Who is more important than him for the No. 50 contract?

Mike Hoffman? If they want Karlsson to waive his NMC.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Obviously, you can make the Hall of Fame despite being a bad skater. Former Penguin Luc Robitaille is the best example, of course. For you old timers out there, Steve Shutt was a great goal-scoring winger who had the choppiest skating stride I think I have ever seen in my life. Did not hurt him.

The issue is the coach. Most, if not all, players whose skating is considered below-average have really struggled under Sullivan. Like, you basically have no shot with this system if your skating is sub-par. I always go back to Tanner Pearson when talking about this. He was a very good player before Sullivan, and he rebounded well after Sullivan. But he was completely useless during Sullivan.

I just hope the guys who have skating issues will be ready when we have a new coach. Otherwise, they are probably going to be traded. That is just how things go under this coach. It is the sad reality.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Mike Hoffman? If they want Karlsson to waive his NMC.

Hoffman was already a Penguin once:

Mike Hoffman and Rem Pitlick traded to Pittsburgh | Montréal Canadiens

The Canadiens receive Jeff Petry, Casey DeSmith, Nathan Legare and a second-round pick in 2025

www.nhl.com

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I see it like drafting a QB or pitcher and trying to change their delivery. They’ve probably doing it that way for most, if not all their lives. Especially during developmental years. It’s going to be very hard to correct. That’s why I think a lot of players that have improved their skating has more to do with getting into a strength and conditioning program in the NHL or in college. They add speed and explosiveness by adding strength.

Just a theory of mine though.


Why would the NHL allow that? Didn’t they break rating records in this years SCF? Neither the NFL nor the NBA regressed when they saw people wanted to see talented offensive players.

They certainly did not break any records on US TV, don't know about Canada.

 

[eXile3]

Obviously, you can make the Hall of Fame despite being a bad skater. Former Penguin Luc Robitaille is the best example, of course. For you old timers out there, Steve Shutt was a great goal-scoring winger who had the choppiest skating stride I think I have ever seen in my life. Did not hurt him.

The issue is the coach. Most, if not all, players whose skating is considered below-average have really struggled under Sullivan. Like, you basically have no shot with this system if your skating is sub-par. I always go back to Tanner Pearson when talking about this. He was a very good player before Sullivan, and he rebounded well after Sullivan. But he was completely useless during Sullivan.

I just hope the guys who have skating issues will be ready when we have a new coach. Otherwise, they are probably going to be traded. That is just how things go under this coach. It is the sad reality.

Brett Hull is always the first one I think of. At worst the 4th best goal scorer of all time. Couldn’t skate but he could find open areas and had an absolute beast of a shot.

 

[Ulf5]

Just a screenshot of Excel:

Edit: from Lindberg and down, the % obviously needs to be fixed. But if you want to calculate the % yourself go ahead and divide "overall" by 65.

Was looking more for potential and ceiling to see how the projections fared.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

OR, they sign him as the 50th contract. Who is more important than him for the No. 50 contract?

Don't they both slide if/when they return to juniors?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Bonino wasn’t a great skater but could play a fast game because he was smart. Knew where to put the puck and without it knew where to be.

 

[Jacob]

Pieniniemi slides too. Even still I’d start dumping some of these NHL contracts that will probably be lucky to even make WB/S this year, like Frasca or MacArthur.

Get rid of Nieto too. WB/S has enough forwards and he’s not one of our top 14 skaters.

Bonino wasn’t a great skater but could play a fast game because he was smart. Knew where to put the puck and without it knew where to be.

Bonino’s skating was outright bad.

It also helped that he played with speedy wingers.

 

[Al Smith]

Brett Hull is always the first one I think of. At worst the 4th best goal scorer of all time. Couldn’t skate but he could find open areas and had an absolute beast of a shot.

While you and the previous post are talking about old timers like Steve Shutt (not Rod), who played opposite Guy Lafleur, throw Phil Esposito into the group of people who only had to skate well enough to get to the front of the net, establish position, and be better than everyone else at collecting points there. Pens’ recent PP successes have shown that net front presence even by a subpar skater is unnecessary in this day and age.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I see it like drafting a QB or pitcher and trying to change their delivery. They’ve probably doing it that way for most, if not all their lives. Especially during developmental years. It’s going to be very hard to correct. That’s why I think a lot of players that have improved their skating has more to do with getting into a strength and conditioning program in the NHL or in college. They add speed and explosiveness by adding strength.

Just a theory of mine though.


Why would the NHL allow that? Didn’t they break rating records in this years SCF? Neither the NFL nor the NBA regressed when they saw people wanted to see talented offensive players.

Because at some point people figure out that the refs are human and don’t like calling those kinds of things. Or that physical tactics work against speedy teams, especially if they don’t have two elite centers. It’s the natural pendulum of the thing.

Brett Hull is always the first one I think of. At worst the 4th best goal scorer of all time. Couldn’t skate but he could find open areas and had an absolute beast of a shot.

Yeah Hull was bad. But it also illustrates that if a player can mould their game around their strengths and not try to mindlessly copy the conventional wisdom, they can have an impact, especially with a shot like that.

 

[chethejet]

Lots of bad skaters especially on defense have been NHL performers. Skating is as asset and the better the skater, the better the speed to get to points on the ice. Sullivan loves players who can get to spots for his system. In the end, Skating is one of many attributes needed for playing in the NHL.