Gurglesons
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Lafreniere was also a Tavares level prospect that some viewed as potentially generational.
Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition
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Lafreniere was also a Tavares level prospect that some viewed as potentially generational.
- Jun 13, 2010
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That's why the AHL and then spot duty in the NHL is the best overall thing for his development. He's not going to learn how to adjust to the NHL playing a 5th season in the WHL for the same team.
I'm even interested in what Anaheim did with Carlsson and a bit of "load management" to start him off with.
Ryder71
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- Nov 24, 2017
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He was a non factor offensively, lost a ton of faceoffs, piss poor puck management and his positioning left a lot to be desired. Pretty abysmal all around.
oh, thanks. i know its been a long time since i played the game and i must not have kept up with some of the rule changes. so when did hockey stop being a team game? i didn't see the game so i have no reason to disagree with your assessment, and yet there were no goals scored against while he was on the ice. so it just seems strange. imo
Empoleon8771
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There is nothing that suggests at this point that playing Yager in the NHL would "ruin his development".
Buffalo kept up Zach Benson in the NHL last year, did they ruin his development? Benson was taken 1 spot above Yager and he had 30 points in 71 games last year. His 5v5 points/60 of 1.76 was roughly equal to Rakell and Smith.
Ryder71
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No offense but if you didn't watch it, pretty hard to assess much of anything. Also he's a 1st line center for his team, he should help drive offense and help create scoring chances, or has the game changed that much since YOU played?
Empoleon8771
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I think Yager's situation is also partially dependent on whether he's awarded AHL eligibility for next year. He does technically have 4 "full" seasons of WHL play, but that's including the COVID year where his team only played in 24 games in total. Shane Wright was given credit for the 2020-2021 COVID season despite the OHL literally not playing in 2020-2021, so I don't see why Yager wouldn't get that kind of credit as well. But that's speaking logically and you know most things don't act logical.
The best situation with Yager is him starting in the AHL and eventually dominating enough to push his way onto the NHL roster. If he's deemed not AHL eligible due to 2020-2021 not counting, I think you have to seriously consider whether he's better off in the NHL even with the growing pains in the NHL.
The best situation with Yager is him starting in the AHL and eventually dominating enough to push his way onto the NHL roster. If he's deemed not AHL eligible due to 2020-2021 not counting, I think you have to seriously consider whether he's better off in the NHL even with the growing pains in the NHL.
If the CHL/WHL try to force him back to their league, I would seriously consider keeping him on the NHL roster until at least Christmas even if he was the 13th forward. Threaten not to send him back unless Moose Jaw trades his rights to whichever team you prefer he land with. Sprinkle in some NHL games to keep him active, but not so many that you burn a season of waiver exemption. He's an automatic to make team Canada at the World Juniors so he'd get games and big minutes in at Christmas either way.
Oh I’m aware. I was a huge fan of Benson and couldn’t believe he almost dropped to us. Was pissed when Buffalo took him.
Every player develops differently and you don’t know yet. Maybe they did hurt his development by playing him too early? It just seems like the risk outweighs the reward.
Ryder71
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- Nov 24, 2017
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Not that I prefer he stay with MJ, but it wouldn't be the end of the world necessarily if he did. And even so he'd still be able to play for those heathens on team canada.
I think he needs another year of development, that said I'm ok with whichever direction it goes, just sign him!
Gurglesons
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Benson going into the draft was viewed by some as the 3rd or 4th best prospect in it.
He’s not. Especially under this coach. Send him back to the W. He’ll be fine.
- Jun 13, 2010
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This is where I'm at. If it's NHL vs WHL, you at the very least give him the 9 NHL games unless the roster is so loaded that it forces your hand. Telling Nieto he has to sit for a couple games to start the year isn't the end of the world if it means getting a look at Yager. If you give him those games, it's like you can identify a few things that he needs to work on. You can then give him and a his coaches/player dev a list of things to do in the coming year. But yeah, I still think that's much better done in the AHL vs WHL.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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- May 31, 2004
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My hand-wringing over the coach and training camps aside... it really is a tough question.
My hope is that what Emp is referring to becomes a reality and he's able to be assigned to the AHL. I think that is definitely the best case scenario. I would be fine with him going back to juniors to dominate, too. I think there is merit in that. As an easy-to-recall example... Staal came in and made the team and that's great but perhaps another year in juniors developing his overall offensive game MIGHT have been more to his benefit. In other words... while the common train of thought is that at Yager's developmental curve there is "no benefit" to him playing at that level any longer... I'm not so sure.
The NHL is a tricky situation even if he shows he's capable at training camp. I know I harp about it constantly and I'm not trying to derail the thread but I have zero confidence in the coaching staff making the right choices for him and putting him in positions to succeed and mold his development in a positive fashion. I don't think I'm off base in that assessment at all based on everything we've seen over the years. One could say that Dubas will exert his will on Sullivan or whatever nonsense but that's fantasy talk til I see it actually happen. I don't think Sullivan gives a hoot that Yager is the best shot they have at developing a high end forward in quite some time. He cares about his job and icing whatever guys make that easier for him which aren't somewhat raw but talented players coming right out of juniors.
EDIT: I don't at all agree that simply holding him on the NHL team and often benching him does anything productive at all. Yager needs to see ice and a lot of it. Even if it's at the junior level.
My hope is that what Emp is referring to becomes a reality and he's able to be assigned to the AHL. I think that is definitely the best case scenario. I would be fine with him going back to juniors to dominate, too. I think there is merit in that. As an easy-to-recall example... Staal came in and made the team and that's great but perhaps another year in juniors developing his overall offensive game MIGHT have been more to his benefit. In other words... while the common train of thought is that at Yager's developmental curve there is "no benefit" to him playing at that level any longer... I'm not so sure.
The NHL is a tricky situation even if he shows he's capable at training camp. I know I harp about it constantly and I'm not trying to derail the thread but I have zero confidence in the coaching staff making the right choices for him and putting him in positions to succeed and mold his development in a positive fashion. I don't think I'm off base in that assessment at all based on everything we've seen over the years. One could say that Dubas will exert his will on Sullivan or whatever nonsense but that's fantasy talk til I see it actually happen. I don't think Sullivan gives a hoot that Yager is the best shot they have at developing a high end forward in quite some time. He cares about his job and icing whatever guys make that easier for him which aren't somewhat raw but talented players coming right out of juniors.
EDIT: I don't at all agree that simply holding him on the NHL team and often benching him does anything productive at all. Yager needs to see ice and a lot of it. Even if it's at the junior level.
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WickedWrister
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This is basically the Canadian Junior version of the Lady Byng, right?
Only 20 PIM
Sorry
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- May 18, 2005
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Based on that sick 'stache alone, he will be an NHL winger this season.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
The only question is whether or not you send him back to the Dub or keep him in the NHL. If he does become eligible to play in the AHL, then there is no question. Then his status becomes no different than Ponomarev, Poulin and Broz. To the victor goes the spoils.
I will continue to suggest that playing on the THIRD (not fourth) line behind two of the greatest to ever do it is immeasurably more beneficial for his development than being the big man on campus in Moose Jaw. There are so many little things, crucial things, that Yager can pick up just by watching 87 and 71 in practice. I cannot stress that enough.
I am of the belief that prospects who receive opportunities are the true top prospects, because what good is it to be a top prospect if you don't get a shot? Samuel Fagemo IMO was a top prospect for the Kings. He is STILL trying to break through.
So, let's go to training camp with four C prospects and let's see who wins the job. If Yager looks like the best of the bunch, sending him back and giving his spot to someone else is actually much more damaging for a prospect than rushing him. Sports are also big time mental, not only a physical hurdle.
I will continue to suggest that playing on the THIRD (not fourth) line behind two of the greatest to ever do it is immeasurably more beneficial for his development than being the big man on campus in Moose Jaw. There are so many little things, crucial things, that Yager can pick up just by watching 87 and 71 in practice. I cannot stress that enough.
I am of the belief that prospects who receive opportunities are the true top prospects, because what good is it to be a top prospect if you don't get a shot? Samuel Fagemo IMO was a top prospect for the Kings. He is STILL trying to break through.
So, let's go to training camp with four C prospects and let's see who wins the job. If Yager looks like the best of the bunch, sending him back and giving his spot to someone else is actually much more damaging for a prospect than rushing him. Sports are also big time mental, not only a physical hurdle.
WickedWrister
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Is Gen Z bringing mustaches back into style? First Paul Skenes, now Yager...
BlindWillyMcHurt
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- May 31, 2004
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He's rocking the Timothy Dalton. Good on him.
McGroarty2
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Playing less minutes in the NHL than he would in Juniors, it may be easier for him to put weight on.
- Jun 13, 2010
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It's going to be a fun time once camp roles around to watch a few people here actively root against the young guys like Pono, Koivunen, and Yager and downplay any and all success they might have just so they can further their anti-Dubas agenda.
I think Puustinen is a good example of what they need to be doing (or at the very least - not be afraid to do) this coming year. If you can get guys like that up, put them in the good position. They put Puustinen on the 2nd line with Malkin. Perfect. Do that for Pono, Koivunen, Yager, Broz, etc. Shifting Smith/Rakell/DOC/etc to the third line for a couple games won't "hurt" them but also in turn gives us a better third line. I don't buy this "send him back and never call up anyone ever because Sullivan will only play them 5 minutes on the 4th line" bullshit.
Sorry
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edit- Hot Fuzz gif here lol
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Putting weight on is only partially the issue, though a lot of NHL players are relatively undersized until their mid-to-late 20s. The other part is you want him getting to process the game at speed and over 82+ games because those additional 20 or so games can take a bigger toll than people think.
Hot Fuzz is so good.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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But... I mean... that's kinda what's been happening?
I really don't have an agenda, here. I'm basing it off precedent.
Not to be contentious but the people saying "they'll play these guys in the top six/third line and get them lots of minutes and it'll be great for their development" are the ones preaching fantasy. Not me. Puus KINDA got a chance this past year but his usage was all over the place. DOC got in there, too. I'll grant that. But it took them like... years of spot use and being yo-yo'd up and down from the farm.
I think young players need not just coaching up but also stability and a distinct understanding of their role and some leeway to make mistakes along with confidence and trust from the staff. I don't see that currently being a thing at the NHL level, here.
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- Jun 13, 2010
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It needs to be done gradually in parallel with skating and development. If you take Yager and put him in weight room all summer with the goal of packing on 20lbs of lean muscle, you can do that but it's going to slow him down, affect his skating, affect his shot, etc. He's 20. Has plenty of time to gradually gain muscle mass and find what works best for him.
Wasn't directed at you. I would suggest that the coaching staff has been relatively decent about putting guys in good positions. Nylander and Puustinen are realistically, the only top 6 wingers we've really had and both times, when brought up, they started with Geno in the top 6. Eventually they get demoted to the third line but that's fine.
BlindWillyMcHurt
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- May 31, 2004
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Sorry I ninja-edited to illustrate my point a little better.
I just don't agree that the current environment on the NHL club is conducive to developing young players properly. Based on this team's track record of... uh... *gestures broadly* -- I don't think I'm being negative or controversial, here. Would love to be proven wrong... having a real training camp where multiple young players win jobs of significance would be fun.
Not to mention a crucial part of any winning strategy. Young players with something to prove on ELCs are a massive advantage if you can leverage it and have a coaching staff that leans into that ethos. But that last part is a big hurdle, here IMO.
I just don't agree that the current environment on the NHL club is conducive to developing young players properly. Based on this team's track record of... uh... *gestures broadly* -- I don't think I'm being negative or controversial, here. Would love to be proven wrong... having a real training camp where multiple young players win jobs of significance would be fun.
Not to mention a crucial part of any winning strategy. Young players with something to prove on ELCs are a massive advantage if you can leverage it and have a coaching staff that leans into that ethos. But that last part is a big hurdle, here IMO.
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