Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[SomeDude]

Getting a projected 25-30 goal and 60ish pt player at the position we did who is a two way, all situational player is not tearing Yager down.

It’s not the projected numbers but more like anytime someone posts something positive about him 1-3 others come and argue against it.

Like I said, it’s just abnormal compared to other fan bases who want to tout their 4th round pick who had .75 ppg in his D+2 year as the next big thing. It’s like we’re trying to prepare for a let down. Which I kind of get since we haven’t really had any prospects to get excited about in awhile. However, we haven’t had prospects of the pedigree we’re slowly starting to round up since the dawn of the Sid era.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s not the projected numbers but more like anytime someone posts something positive about him 1-3 others come and argue against it.

Like I said, it’s just abnormal compared to other fan bases who want to tout their 4th round pick who had .75 ppg in his D+2 year as the next big thing. It’s like we’re trying to prepare for a let down. Which I kind of get since we haven’t really had any prospects to get excited about in awhile. However, we haven’t had prospects of the pedigree we’re slowly starting to round up since the dawn of the Sid era.

I don't see this happening at all.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Discourse has been completely fine IMO.

Go back through drafts over the years. In most years the guy that would go 14th a redraft isn’t that special.

Obviously that’s not the best methodology but my point is if Yager has a career akin to Carl Hagelin or Lars Eller- hes probably still going top 15-20 in a redraft in twenty years unless 2023 turns out to be a very strong draft.

 

[Gurglesons]

Discourse has been completely fine IMO.

Go back through drafts over the years. In most years the guy that would go 14th a redraft isn’t that special.

Obviously that’s not the best methodology but my point is if Yager has a career akin to Carl Hagelin or Lars Eller- hes probably still going top 15-20 in a redraft in twenty years unless 2023 turns out to be a very strong draft.

Yeah, I feel like people are being realistic about where Yager was drafted and what type of player he is.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yeah, I feel like people are being realistic about where Yager was drafted and what type of player he is.

Also as a RH shot (and a good shooter) center capable prospect I feel like he’s got a wider range of outcomes. Not like he’s a 5’9 dangler euro winger that is gonna need to score 60 points to be in the league. That prospect is easier to say “if he hits he’s a top line winger”.

Yager could be a 1st liner but also could be Freddy Gaudreau.

Not disputing he’s a good prospect. But am saying if he’s a 20G 20A middle 6 winger or a solid 3C in the league for a long time that’s not a bad outcome by any means for where he was picked.

 

[SomeDude]

Here are some of the reasons I’m bullish on Yager. I feel the 2023 draft is going to be 2003 esque in quality. So comparing players just on draft position is kind of moot if it’s a deep draft.

Before the draft he was seen as a boom bust offensive skilled guy. He set out to prove he has more to his game and did just that by playing more responsible at the cost of some offensive numbers. Instead of draft “experts” recognizing that, they just saw his numbers and started questioning if his upside is what was expected.

The same goes for now when he’s “only” putting up the numbers he is in the playoffs while he’s also playing better/more responsible on the defensive side than some of his teammates who are putting up better stat lines.

I’m not saying he’s some elite can’t miss next one player, but I think a lot of people are selling him short. I do think his ceiling is higher than most. He’s also shown awareness and adaptability beyond his age.

Whether this organization is capable of him reaching that ceiling is another story, though. If sully is still around he is just going to shoe horn him into a bottom 6 defensive role and that will be that.

 

[Gurglesons]

Here are some of the reasons I’m bullish on Yager. I feel the 2023 draft is going to be 2003 esque in quality. So comparing players just on draft position is kind of moot if it’s a deep draft.

Before the draft he was seen as a boom bust offensive skilled guy. He set out to prove he has more to his game and did just that by playing more responsible at the cost of some offensive numbers. Instead of draft “experts” recognizing that, they just saw his numbers and started questioning if his upside is what was expected.

The same goes for now when he’s “only” putting up the numbers he is in the playoffs while he’s also playing better/more responsible on the defensive side than some of his teammates who are putting up better stat lines.

I’m not saying he’s some elite can’t miss next one player, but I think a lot of people are selling him short. I do think his ceiling is higher than most. He’s also shown awareness and adaptability beyond his age.

Whether this organization is capable of him reaching that ceiling is another story, though. If sully is still around he is just going to shoe horn him into a bottom 6 defensive role and that will be that.

How is saying he's going to be a potential 30 goal - 60 point two way forward selling him short?

In 2003 the draft was deep but look at where Yager would've been taken..

 

[SomeDude]

How is saying he's going to be a potential 30 goal - 60 point two way forward selling him short?

Because I think his ceiling is higher than that? 60 points isn’t what it used to be with the scoring rising over the last decade.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because I think his ceiling is higher than that? 60 points isn’t what it used to be with the scoring rising over the last decade.

I don't think Yager is the same level of Prospect as Guenther, but he had a similar statline to Yager in the dub, just had an amazing season with the Yotes and paced for around 60.

I'm not sure it's really fair to put the type of expectations on a player that is not really doing anything unique given his draft pedigree in the WHL.

I guess that's why you have an issue with how people are framing the discussion.

 

[Andy99]

Also as a RH shot (and a good shooter) center capable prospect I feel like he’s got a wider range of outcomes. Not like he’s a 5’9 dangler euro winger that is gonna need to score 60 points to be in the league. That prospect is easier to say “if he hits he’s a top line winger”.

Yager could be a 1st liner but also could be Freddy Gaudreau.

Not disputing he’s a good prospect. But am saying if he’s a 20G 20A middle 6 winger or a solid 3C in the league for a long time that’s not a bad outcome by any means for where he was picked.

Given the Pens needs, I thInk 3C is a bad outcome…we need to have drafted either a top six center or wing, someone as good as Jarvis or Mercer

 

[SomeDude]

I don't think Yager is the same level of Prospect as Guenther, but he had a similar statline to Yager, just had an amazing season with the Yotes and passed for around 60.

I'm not sure it's really fair to put the type of expectations on a player that is not really doing anything unique given his draft pedigree in the WHL.

I guess that's why you have an issue with how people are framing the discussion.

Guenther is also still only 21, most players have their peak offensive seasons around 25-27 years old. When I talk about upside I’m talking where they could be at their best, not necessarily where they will be for the majority of their career.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Given the Pens needs, I thInk 3C is a bad outcome…we need to have drafted either a top six center or wing, someone as good as Jarvis or Mercer

You can't worry about needs in that position. You bring in guys who can play, figure everything out later.

 

[Gurglesons]

Given the Pens needs, I thInk 3C is a bad outcome…we need to have drafted either a top six center or wing, someone as good as Jarvis or Mercer

Mercer just had 33 points.

Guenther is also still only 21, most players have their peak offensive seasons around 25-27 years old. When I talk about upside I’m talking where they could be at their best, not necessarily where they will be for the majority of their career.

So you think Yager is going to be what a 40 goal, 80 point scorer?

 

[Ulf5]

Everyone says McCann but I'm going to really pump his tires and say we might very well have the next Brandon Sutter on our hands, here.

Obviously it's way too early to tell and Yager has some developing to accomplish yet but it seems that might be selling his potential a bit short. Sutter could never utilize his teammates. And Yager's 60 assists in 57 games this season took Sutter 130 games and 2 seasons to accumulate in the same WHL.

 

[Gurglesons]

Obviously it's way too early to tell and Yager has some developing to accomplish yet but it seems that might be selling his potential a bit short. Sutter could never utilize his teammates. And Yager's 60 assists in 57 games this season took Sutter 130 games and 2 seasons to accumulate in the same WHL.

I do find it funny that our fan base on here says Pickering is dead in the water and Yager is 80+ pt potential though.

The issue with Yager and I think any scout would provide it, is his game is perimeter. This has been the book on him since he won rookie of the year. He hasn't really developed that and Mateychuk and Firkus are better players and are driving a lot of the offense while Yager just has to finish.

You saw it in the WJC too. He just wasn't an impactful player despite production.

 

[SomeDude]

So you think Yager is going to be what a 40 goal, 80 point scorer?

I think he’s going to be a PPG guy who isn’t allergic to the defensive zone but the more I say it out loud the more I’m thinking whatever coach we have when he gets to the NHL will just see his willingness to play “the right way” and his offensive will be stunted in favor of a safer less impactful role.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Obviously it's way too early to tell and Yager has some developing to accomplish yet but it seems that might be selling his potential a bit short. Sutter could never utilize his teammates. And Yager's 60 assists in 57 games this season took Sutter 130 games and 2 seasons to accumulate in the same WHL.

I was being sarcastic. Sutter was awful.

I'm not at all dunking on Yager. I guess I'm just closer to Gurg's opinion, here. This team hasn't developed jack for many years and I'm generally not that bullish on players picked where Yager was picked. Especially teams that have proven to not be able to draft and develop very well.

I'm sure he's a better pick than Pouliot, though!

 

[SomeDude]

I do find it funny that our fan base on here says Pickering is dead in the water and Yager is 80+ pt potential though.

I know a lot less about Pickering than Yager but I do feel like people have been pretty down on Pickering since the pick. I remember some people at the time saying we drafted the next Dumoulin as if that is a bad thing.

It is disappointing that he’s batting 1.000 for showing up to prospect camp injured, though.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think he’s going to be a PPG guy who isn’t allergic to the defensive zone but the more I say it out loud the more I’m thinking whatever coach we have when he gets to the NHL will just see his willingness to play “the right way” and his offensive will be stunted in favor of a safer less impactful role.

I can't see him being a PPG guy.

I just don't see it in any of the clips I see of him. He's got too many things going against him.

28 forwards were a PPG this year that played over 60 games. Yager wasn't even in a top 10 forward in the W this year. He's arguably not even the 3rd best player on his own team.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The harsh turn on Pickering is a little weird.

To me he looks like the most potential-laden guy in the whole pool. Not that he'll reach that. Only that if he does he should easily be the best player of the current lot.

 

[Gurglesons]

The harsh turn on Pickering is a little weird.

To me he looks like the most potential-laden guy in the whole pool. Not that he'll reach that. Only that if he does he should easily be the best player of the current lot.

Agreed. If we are talking homerun swings, Pickering has the most upside IMO and given Hextall's drafting record with Philly versus Dubas' and Rutherford's, I'm definitely keen to see him in camp if he can stay healthy.

The other thing is you always hear how smart Pickering is. That goes a long way IMO.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Agreed. If we are talking homerun swings, Pickering has the most upside IMO and given Hextall's drafting record with Philly versus Dubas' and Rutherford's, I'm definitely keen to see him in camp if he can stay healthy.

I've heard fans say that he's injury prone already but he's really not. He's just had the bad fortune of being banged up at the wrong time... which is camp. But lets face it... it's not like he's missing f***-all.

 

[SomeDude]

I can't see him being a PPG guy.

I just don't see it in any of the clips I see of him. He's got too many things going against him.

28 forwards were a PPG this year that played over 60 games. Yager wasn't even in a top 10 forward in the W this year.

I am basically projecting if everything in his development goes perfectly which probably isn’t going to happen. I just think he has the upside to be a top 10 player in a draft class that I think is going to go down as the “generational” draft of this time in terms of depth and quality.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I've heard fans say that he's injury prone already but he's really not. He's just had the bad fortune of being banged up at the wrong time... which is camp. But lets face it... it's not like he's missing f***-all.

He missed the MM/RR meet and greet and the Dejan key party, so he's a failure for local media.

 

[Gurglesons]

I am basically projecting if everything in his development goes perfectly which probably isn’t going to happen. I just think he has the upside to be a top 10 player in a draft class that I think is going to go down as the “generational” draft of this time in terms of depth and quality.

But if you are using the 2003 NHL draft as an example the 5-10 players in that draft class were like Carter, Vanek, Brown, and Parise.

Most of those guys were 60ish point guys for the majority of their career.

Parise had the two big years and Carter and Vanek hit 70 a few times, but I think you're just having wildly out of realm expectations for him.

Benson, Bedard, Leo, and Fantilli are without question better prospects.

Michkov, Leonard, and Dvorsky are all above Yager IMO too. And I don't even think anyone out of those 7 outside of Bedard is a PPG player guaranteed.