Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[Gurglesons]

"NOOOO!! NOOOO!!! He can't be doing well! We can't have gotten anything good back for Guentzel! He's doing bad! He's a lottery pick! He'll never make it! It was quantity over quality! He's not a first-round pick! NOOOOO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

He's an undersized, offensively skilled winger. He has compete.

He was an absolute no show in the WJC this year and in 2022. Let's remove draft position because he was drafted 3 years ago and it likely is more about projection at this point.

We traded Jake Guentzel for a Blueger and Puustinen type prospect (I think they could potentially be better) while taking back term and cap in Bunting and getting Lucuis and a 2nd as scratch offs. It wasn't a good trade.

Hopefully Koivunen makes it work, but if Sullivan is our coach, I doubt we see him next year.

From that angle, I would've much rather gotten a 1st and Morrow and a 4th as the return versus the package we got.

 

[Gurglesons]

One thing I will say about the trade. Carolina has given up some absolute gems in trades over the last few years from a "depth player" stand point..

Going back to the Vegas expansion trade..

They moved Nic Roy for Erik Haula

Luostarinen for Trochek

Hakanpaa for Fleury

Jake Bean to CBJ

Foegle for Ethan Bear

Lorentz for Burns

So, hopefully we get the benefit of one of those types of players in one of the assets we grabbed.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I hope Koivunen can beat the odds and parlay his play/production in Liiga to the NHL. I also hope Bunting becomes Hornqvist 2.0, Ponomarev turns into Guy Carbonneau, Cruz Lucius becomes Chris Drury, and our early 2nd becomes Roope Hintz.

Nobody is cheering against the prospects we received. The issue is that none of them are good bets to become anything close to any of those players. They're all longshots. But I'll be ecstatic if they do.

 

[Turin]

Sure when you’ve already decided the prospects are Blueger and Puustinen of course you’d rather have the magic beans that would be Morrow. The flaw in that being that you already decided what these guys are after having known about them for two weeks now.

 

[Ryder71]

"NOOOO!! NOOOO!!! He can't be doing well! We can't have gotten anything good back for Guentzel! He's doing bad! He's a lottery pick! He'll never make it! It was quantity over quality! He's not a first-round pick! NOOOOO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

You nailed it, well done sir!

 

[Gurglesons]

Sure when you’ve already decided the prospects are Blueger and Puustinen of course you’d rather have the magic beans that would be Morrow. The flaw in that being that you already decided what these guys are after having known about them for two weeks now.

These are 18-19 year old prospects.

Ponomarev is 22.

Koivunen is 20.

We have plenty of footage, numbers, and prospect takeaways from multiple publications.

Is there a chance Koivunen breaks out and is the next Sebastian Aho? Sure.

Is it likely? No.

The other issue that I've been consistent about pointing out is Koivunen is the exact type of player our team consistently fails at developing.

So yes, I'll take the consensus viewpoint of Koivunen and Ponomarev by multiple avenues as a bottom six, defensive center and a top nine skilled forward with potential as a top six guy as fact over the guy above you posting 4Chan memes since I don't agree that the Guentzel trade was some amazing bounty.

 

[Ryder71]

He's an undersized, offensively skilled winger. He has compete.

He was an absolute no show in the WJC this year and in 2022. Let's remove draft position because he was drafted 3 years ago and it likely is more about projection at this point.

We traded Jake Guentzel for a Blueger and Puustinen type prospect (I think they could potentially be better) while taking back term and cap in Bunting and getting Lucuis and a 2nd as scratch offs. It wasn't a good trade.

Hopefully Koivunen makes it work, but if Sullivan is our coach, I doubt we see him next year.

From that angle, I would've much rather gotten a 1st and Morrow and a 4th as the return versus the package we got.

I know this, our hero had the best year of someone of his age in that league in the last 30 years. If you look at the progression from his previous season it's very impressive. That doesn't guarantee anything, but it's a definite positive. He was also one of the youngest players in his draft class (june birthday). Bunting has played well since arriving here. He's a very solid mid 9 forward. Not sure why we should look down on that. We also got a late 1st, or more like mid 2hd rounder, a guy who could be a mainstay in the bottom six and a college player with potential. I don't expect to hit on all of that, but if a couple of those pieces do it's a great trade because we weren't going anywhere with Jake regardless.

Although and unfortunately we might get Jake back next year. In which case we wouldn't have given up anything other than a few months of a rental. On paper that would make that trade unbelievable! As is it's still damn good. Plenty of potential there with the prospects an already solid NHLer here. Dubas did well once you look into it. And Honestly I prefer Kouvunen over Morrow anyhow because Defensemen can take a long time to reach the NHL. And he's not even signed. Definitely prefer Koivunen.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Guentzel trade return is now "unbelieveable".

"The very best trade every made" People all over are saying this is a great win for Kyle Dubas.

 

[Ryder71]

Sure when you’ve already decided the prospects are Blueger and Puustinen of course you’d rather have the magic beans that would be Morrow. The flaw in that being that you already decided what these guys are after having known about them for two weeks now.

Morrow won't be anything great, and he's not even signed. I'm glad we got Koivunen, and from what I saw CAR fans preferred Koivunen to Blake and I really liked Blake.

The Guentzel trade return is now "unbelieveable".

"The very best trade every made" People all over are saying this is a great win for Kyle Dubas.

Finally! You get it! ''every made'' yep, good call.

 

[Ryder71]

Yager and Koivunen are now our two best prospects. Our prospect pool while still lacking depth got a big boost from this trade. At least we have a good number of prospects to follow that have plenty of upside.

 

[HandshakeLine]

His numbers are better than Dominik Simon's were at the same age, and at D instead of F. Guessing he's got a lot of teams calling.

I'm sure there's a lot of interest. That said, people should also keep in mind that the Extraliga's bigger ice also makes it easier for him to play his game, and it's really uncertain how he'll translate to a smaller, quicker, more physical game.

That said, there's no downside to signing him, just managing expectations.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yager and Koivunen are now our two best prospects. Our prospect pool while still lacking depth got a big boost from this trade. At least we have a good number of prospects to follow that have plenty of upside.

I’m not sure Koivunen is even top 5.

 

[Ryder71]

I’m not sure Koivunen is even top 5.

Of course your not, and that's ok. But, look at his progression from last season to this season. He almost doubled his production from 19 to 20 in his league. That type of thing hasn't happened in his league in 30 years. Even if it's a bit different now with the KHL.

I also don't want him playing here next year, I'd give him a year in WB to adjust.

 

[SEALBound]

He's an undersized, offensively skilled winger. He has compete.

He was an absolute no show in the WJC this year and in 2022. Let's remove draft position because he was drafted 3 years ago and it likely is more about projection at this point.

We traded Jake Guentzel for a Blueger and Puustinen type prospect (I think they could potentially be better) while taking back term and cap in Bunting and getting Lucuis and a 2nd as scratch offs. It wasn't a good trade.

Hopefully Koivunen makes it work, but if Sullivan is our coach, I doubt we see him next year.

From that angle, I would've much rather gotten a 1st and Morrow and a 4th as the return versus the package we got.

We trade Jake for a 6th...and Crosby for a 7th...and we owe the Senators a first round pick...and the SC winner fans get to punch us in the face this year...and we'll never be good again...and we'll never win another game ever again...and it just going to be pain forever...and Dubas kick my dog...and Hextall only stayed for 3 minutes to console me...and Rutherford stole my lunch...and we signed Jack Johnson once...

I would tell you to seek help...but given your track record on this site, I think I'd rather hold my tongue and see you suffer.

 

[chethejet]

Look, Dubas is in his first year and he is more aware of things now. Like a new coach, it takes a while to get to who really is what. Dubas knows the system is crap coming in but maybe he does see in the trade return for jake and the coming draft and Yagar and young LD to develop. This is going to take time here. Pens don't have a Sid coming. But no one does so Pens accumulate talent and now the priority is development. Pens have nice assets to move to add to the development mix in Rust and Karlsson.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We trade Jake for a 6th...and Crosby for a 7th...and we owe the Senators a first round pick...and the SC winner fans get to punch us in the face this year...and we'll never be good again...and we'll never win another game ever again...and it just going to be pain forever...and Dubas kick my dog...and Hextall only stayed for 3 minutes to console me...and Rutherford stole my lunch...and we signed Jack Johnson once...

I would tell you to seek help...but given your track record on this site, I think I'd rather hold my tongue and see you suffer.

Do things always have to get personal?

 

[SEALBound]

Do things always have to get personal?

From the lengths I've watch you and Pixie take this Guentzel trade (and also the Kessel trade for you), I would ask you guys the same thing.

Rarely do I see two adults (presumably) be this destabilized by a sports trade to the extent that it completely warps your reality and your ability to have honest discussion.

You don't like it. We all get it. Everything else is more and more drama whining from you and him.

ETA: Fixed. It's not drama. It's whining.

 

[SomeDude]

Look, Dubas is in his first year and he is more aware of things now. Like a new coach, it takes a while to get to who really is what. Dubas knows the system is crap coming in but maybe he does see in the trade return for jake and the coming draft and Yagar and young LD to develop. This is going to take time here. Pens don't have a Sid coming. But no one does so Pens accumulate talent and now the priority is development. Pens have nice assets to move to add to the development mix in Rust and Karlsson.

Of course it’s not Dubas’ fault even though his fingerprints are already all over the roster and he was the guy who refused to do anything about our dog **** coaching staff.

We’re also not moving Rust because we “respect him too much” and Karlsson is now apparently in the core which means nothing can be done to upset him.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Dang I wonder why a lot of good posters dipped out and/or reduced their activity here?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

From the lengths I've watch you and Pixie take this Guentzel trade (and also the Kessel trade for you), I would ask you guys the same thing.

Rarely do I see two adults (presumably) be this destabilized by a sports trade to the extent that it completely warps your reality and your ability to have honest discussion.

You don't like it. We all get it. Everything else is more and more drama whining from you and him.

ETA: Fixed. It's not drama. It's whining.

Receipts are all there. Whatever issues people have with my argument, I stick to the subject.

Generally a useful approach for anyone who values debate and doesn't have any interest in mud slinging.

 

[Turin]

These are 18-19 year old prospects.

Ponomarev is 22.

Koivunen is 20.

We have plenty of footage, numbers, and prospect takeaways from multiple publications.

Is there a chance Koivunen breaks out and is the next Sebastian Aho? Sure.

Is it likely? No.

The other issue that I've been consistent about pointing out is Koivunen is the exact type of player our team consistently fails at developing.

So yes, I'll take the consensus viewpoint of Koivunen and Ponomarev by multiple avenues as a bottom six, defensive center and a top nine skilled forward with potential as a top six guy as fact over the guy above you posting 4Chan memes since I don't agree that the Guentzel trade was some amazing bounty.

There are multiple false dichotomies and fallacies in this post. Please learn to have to honest discussions without pushing every topic ever to one extreme or another.

 

[SEALBound]

Receipts are all there. Whatever issues people have with my argument, I stick to the subject.

Generally a useful approach for anyone who values debate and doesn't have any interest in mud slinging.

You're mad about the return. We get it. No different than the Kessel trade. You aren't interested in a discussion or debate. You want to rattle off the same two or three things and convince people it's the end of the world. Ever wonder why so few people waste their time debating you anymore? You're not "right". People are just genuinely sick of your shit. The same way the vast majority of the board was sick of Pens X's shit. The same way we are sick of Pixie's shit.

If you guys want to a have a depressed bitch session, start a new thread and keep your negativity there. Some of us want to come here and discuss the prospects of the future, the direction of the team, and a bunch of random what-ifs for fun. The last thing we need is your whiny bullshit casting a depressed, dark shadow on what otherwise might be decent discussion.

"But but but but I have receipts! Look, an article that says Pono was only the #7 ranked prospect! Look! And it's a CONDITIONAL FURST!" Yeah, yeah, yeah...we get it. You like to whine. Go take your self-imposed speech and debate gold medal and sit in the corner.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You're mad about the return. We get it. No different than the Kessel trade. You aren't interested in a discussion or debate. You want to rattle off the same two or three things and convince people it's the end of the world. Ever wonder why so few people waste their time debating you anymore? You're not "right". People are just genuinely sick of your shit. The same way the vast majority of the board was sick of Pens X's shit. The same way we are sick of Pixie's shit.

If you guys want to a have a depressed bitch session, start a new thread and keep your negativity there. Some of us want to come here and discuss the prospects of the future, the direction of the team, and a bunch of random what-ifs for fun. The last thing we need is your whiny bullshit casting a depressed, dark shadow on what otherwise might be decent discussion.

"But but but but I have receipts! Look, an article that says Pono was only the #7 ranked prospect! Look! And it's a CONDITIONAL FURST!" Yeah, yeah, yeah...we get it. You like to whine.

Back to the prospects.

 

[chethejet]

I am not sure that Dubas is tied to anything here. Jake trade was done as a result of Dubas not being put in a position of pay up or else. Jake represents the mindset that Pens have to rebuild here and yes Rust will be dealt after next year and I do expect Karlsson as Dubas adds to the prospect and draft pool. I am more optimistic Sid see the younger legs and coaching change to play and develop the younger players to get better. New staff and Sullivan finally getting it is about getting better has to be the goal here. Players who don't will be dealt.

 

[eXile3]

I’m not sure Koivunen is even top 5.

I think he is. Behind Yager and Blomqvist. Maybe Pickering? It’s more of a comment on how bad our pool is.

I think Puustinen + is his ceiling. I think Puus can turn into 40-50 point player. Koivunen maybe a 50-60 player?

Definitely would have preferred a 1st and a top tier prospect over what we got, but I’ve beat that to death.