Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[Gurglesons]

I think he is. Behind Yager and Blomqvist. Maybe Pickering? It’s more of a comment on how bad our pool is.

I think Puustinen + is his ceiling. I think Puus can turn into 40-50 point player. Koivunen maybe a 50-60 player?

Definitely would have preferred a 1st and a top tier prospect over what we got, but I’ve beat that to death.

I would go Yager, Pickering, Blomqvist, Murashov, and then everyone is kinda up in the air. I'd probably take Poulin or Ponomarev over Koivunen if we are talking "definitely could play in the NHL".

There are multiple false dichotomies and fallacies in this post. Please learn to have to honest discussions without pushing every topic ever to one extreme or another.

Not really. And I don't think it is pushing to the extreme or another.

A few posts ago I said this " One thing I will say about the trade. Carolina has given up some absolute gems in trades over the last few years from a "depth player" stand point..

Going back to the Vegas expansion trade..

They moved Nic Roy for Erik Haula

Luostarinen for Trochek

Hakanpaa for Fleury

Jake Bean to CBJ

Foegle for Ethan Bear

Lorentz for Burns

So, hopefully we get the benefit of one of those types of players in one of the assets we grabbed."

I'm looking at things both ways. For some reason you and @SEALBound want to criticize @Dipsy Doodle and I for complaining about prospects that were acquired a few weeks ago while somehow your takes on them are irreproachable?

The issue is we gave up Guentzel for a bunch of things versus focusing on getting value. It was a bad trade.

 

[SEALBound]

I would go Yager, Pickering, Blomqvist, Murashov, and then everyone is kinda up in the air. I'd probably take Poulin or Ponomarev over Koivunen if we are talking "definitely could play in the NHL".



Not really. And I don't think it is pushing to the extreme or another.

A few posts ago I said this " One thing I will say about the trade. Carolina has given up some absolute gems in trades over the last few years from a "depth player" stand point..

Going back to the Vegas expansion trade..

They moved Nic Roy for Erik Haula

Luostarinen for Trochek

Hakanpaa for Fleury

Jake Bean to CBJ

Foegle for Ethan Bear

Lorentz for Burns

So, hopefully we get the benefit of one of those types of players in one of the assets we grabbed."

I'm looking at things both ways. For some reason you and @SEALBound want to criticize @Dipsy Doodle and I for complaining about prospects that were acquired a few weeks ago while somehow your takes on them are irreproachable?

The issue is we gave up Guentzel for a bunch of things versus focusing on getting value. It was a bad trade.

Again, just like I said to Dispy, you're mad. We get it. You don't like the trade and you will take every opportunity to knock Dubas, Bunting, Pono, Kouvinen, and Luius. You don't want to have a debate, you want to rattle off the same 2-3 things and convince people it's the end of the world. Again, we are all sick of your depressing, whiny bullshit. If you and Dispy and Pens X want to go have a pity party and bitch about the same shit over and over and over and over again while getting absolutely no where, then go do it in a new thread that everyone else can stay out of.

Think I'm wrong about people being tired of your shit? Start a poll and ask the community here. I think you'd be shocked.

 

[Gurglesons]

Again, just like I said to Dispy, you're mad. We get it. You don't like the trade and you will take every opportunity to knock Dubas, Bunting, Pono, Kouvinen, and Luius. You don't want to have a debate, you want to rattle off the same 2-3 things and convince people it's the end of the world. Again, we are all sick of your depressing, whiny bullshit. If you and Dispy and Pens X want to go have a pity party and bitch about the same shit over and over and over and over again while getting absolutely no where, then go do it in a new thread that everyone else can stay out of.

Think I'm wrong about people being tired of your shit? Start a poll and ask the community here. I think you'd be shocked.

Just here to discuss hockey.

Sorry my take is so offensive that you can't deal with it. Sounds like a you problem.

 

[Ryder71]

The issue is we gave up Guentzel for a bunch of things versus focusing on getting value. It was a bad trade.

It was a great trade, how you conclude otherwise defies logic. Bunting has already been a nice addition and returns on the prospects haven't even come in yet. AGAIN , if ONE of them pans out it's a tremendous move. And to suggest it isn't you're concluding all these guys are busts. That's just silly. They Haven't even played a game yet. lol

Just here to discuss hockey.

Sorry my take is so offensive that you can't deal with it. Sounds like a you problem.

No, it's a you problem. Because you conclude things without evidence to support it. That's just ridiculous.

Again, just like I said to Dispy, you're mad. We get it. You don't like the trade and you will take every opportunity to knock Dubas, Bunting, Pono, Kouvinen, and Luius. You don't want to have a debate, you want to rattle off the same 2-3 things and convince people it's the end of the world. Again, we are all sick of your depressing, whiny bullshit. If you and Dispy and Pens X want to go have a pity party and bitch about the same shit over and over and over and over again while getting absolutely no where, then go do it in a new thread that everyone else can stay out of.

Think I'm wrong about people being tired of your shit? Start a poll and ask the community here. I think you'd be shocked.

They don't like the trade because they're Jake fanbois. That's the only logical reason not to love this deal.

 

[SEALBound]

Just here to discuss hockey.

Sorry my take is so offensive that you can't deal with it. Sounds like a you problem.

Then quit bitching about the trade and discuss it. You're not dumb. You know what you're doing. We all know what you're doing.

They don't like the trade because they're Jake fanbois. That's the only logical reason not to love this deal.

I mean, so am I! I stated over and over again my preference to keep and resign him but as things changed, I changed my opinion. I was originally skeptical of the return but the more I got to know the prospect and look at the overall package, I was okay with it.

 

[Ryder71]

Then quit bitching about the trade and discuss it. You're not dumb. You know what you're doing. We all know what you're doing.


I mean, so am I! I stated over and over again my preference to keep and resign him but as things changed, I changed my opinion. I was originally skeptical of the return but the more I got to know the prospect and look at the overall package, I was okay with it.

Once I looked into Koivunen I realized this kid is really evolving leaps and bounds from his previous year. It's very impressive and he's only 20. And Bunting has been behind Rust our best wing since his arrival.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Then quit bitching about the trade and discuss it. You're not dumb. You know what you're doing. We all know what you're doing.


I mean, so am I! I stated over and over again my preference to keep and resign him but as things changed, I changed my opinion. I was originally skeptical of the return but the more I got to know the prospect and look at the overall package, I was okay with it.

And the opposite viewpoint is valid, too.

But whatever anyone's opinion on the return, they're Penguins now, and any Pens fan wants them to thrive. Whether it proves them wrong or right.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then quit bitching about the trade and discuss it. You're not dumb. You know what you're doing. We all know what you're doing.

I am discussing it. You are mad I’m saying it is a bad trade because it is a bad trade..

Sorry I’m not excited about Koivunen dominating a league where Kasper Bjorkqvist has a role.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the Finnish kid's probably a top-3 prospect in this system, but that ain't a big accomplishment. Consensus is he was like Carolina's 5th best prospect or so.

I dunno if Dubas could've gotten better if he didn't want guys more NHL ready and just went for quality, but it's a pretty meh return imo. Ah well.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Not that any ranking matters, but Koivunen would be my 2nd best skater in the Pens system. Then Ponomarev then Pickering then Broz. My biggest hesitation on Koivunen is Liiga seems to sucks lately. But so does the Pens prospect pipeline.

Never know how to incorporate goalies into a ranking so I’d leave em separate but both Blomqvist and Murashov look good.

We’ve added a bunch of depth to the pool. I’d imagine if the Pens end up keeping their 1st and add a highly talented piece on top of the depth they’ve built, they’ll have a top half of the league prospect pool in August.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not that any ranking matters, but Koivunen would be my 2nd best skater in the Pens system. Then Ponomarev then Pickering then Broz. My biggest hesitation on Koivunen is Liiga seems to sucks lately. But so does the Pens prospect pipeline.

Never know how to incorporate goalies into a ranking so I’d leave em separate but both Blomqvist and Murashov look good.

We’ve added a bunch of depth to the pool. I’d imagine if the Pens end up keeping their 1st and add a highly talented piece on top of the depth they’ve built, they’ll have a top half of the league prospect pool in August.

This is why I'm not sold on Koivunen. Especially when you look at his physical abilities. Not really comes off the page.

Reminds me of Niemela who was such an amazing player according to Leafs fans.

 

[Whyme]

I think the Finnish kid's probably a top-3 prospect in this system, but that ain't a big accomplishment. Consensus is he was like Carolina's 5th best prospect or so.

I dunno if Dubas could've gotten better if he didn't want guys more NHL ready and just went for quality, but it's a pretty meh return imo. Ah well.

I don't think that description does justice to Koivunen. He was a promising prospect, had a bit of time out in his development but has been excellent this year. You never know about European prospects, it's possible he won't do that well in the NHL, but I think his game looks like he might be ready to step in pretty soon. A very nice player to watch at least in the FEL.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the Finnish kid's probably a top-3 prospect in this system, but that ain't a big accomplishment. Consensus is he was like Carolina's 5th best prospect or so.

I dunno if Dubas could've gotten better if he didn't want guys more NHL ready and just went for quality, but it's a pretty meh return imo. Ah well.

Why would Koivunen be above any of Pickering, Blomqvist and Yager?

I don't think that description does justice to Koivunen. He was a promising prospect, had a bit of time out in his development but has been excellent this year. You never know about European prospects, it's possible he won't do that well in the NHL, but I think his game looks like he might be ready to step in pretty soon. A very nice player to watch at least in the FEL.

This is the issue with Koivunen too. You need PIT to develop him correctly. Puustinen and Simon basically are the only European player we've developed in the last 7 years.

 

[SEALBound]

Once I looked into Koivunen I realized this kid is really evolving leaps and bounds from his previous year. It's very impressive and he's only 20. And Bunting has been behind Rust our best wing since his arrival.

In the game highlights I've watched, I thought he looked really good. Smooth, shifty skater, good positioning, and a hell of shot. And you're right, at 20yo being PPG in Liiga is pretty decent. I can see why he was a 2nd round pick. If we draft a wing with our 2nd this year, this is how I hope he develops over the next 2-3 years.

And yeah, Bunting was never going to replace Sid but it's undeniable that he's providing a bit of jam that we haven't seen in quite awhile. All of his goals are those dirty, greasy, net front battle goals that we've seen very little of. Yeah, not 40g scorer but it's not like we took back Granlund or something where they are merely existing on the roster.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why would Koivunen be above any of Pickering, Blomqvist and Yager?

He's not above Yager, goalies are a huge crapshoot, and I'm not particularly impressed with or optimistic about Pickering. It's probably Yager, Koivunen, then a toss up between Blomqvist, Murashov and Pickering for third.

 

[SEALBound]

Why would Koivunen be above any of Pickering, Blomqvist and Yager?


This is the issue with Koivunen too. You need PIT to develop him correctly. Puustinen and Simon basically are the only European player we've developed in the last 7 years.

Why is it so important that Koivunen be "ranked" against a dman and a goalie in our system? I mean, at the end of the day, who cares?

Or maybe you just want to be able to say "See! See! He's only 5th or 6th in our system! See! See! It was a bad trade! See! See!"

When was the last time we had a European winger draft in the 1st or 2nd round? I see Hallander and Bjorkqvist in the last 20 years. Hardly a good sample size. Simon in the 5th and Puustinen in the 7th are - to borrow a term you love - lottery tickets. For every one that works, 10 more don't. 1st or 2nd round is a little different.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why is it so important that Koivunen be "ranked" against a dman and a goalie in our system? I mean, at the end of the day, who cares?

Or maybe you just want to be able to say "See! See! He's only 5th or 6th in our system! See! See! It was a bad trade! See! See!"

So you want me to discuss, but everything I say is gonna be built in that I have some agenda about the player. Neat.

Sorry. Kyle Dubas. Amazing work. Great guy. GM of the year. The Penguins are without question in a better place with this absolute mastermind who has unparalleled success as our GM.

Jake trade is a clear win. Shades of the Hornqvist + Neal trade. Plus these prospects. Oh man these prospects are great.

 

[Jacob]

I'd go:

1. Yager
2. Ilyin
3. Blomqvist
4. Koivunen
5. Poulin
6. Murashov
7. Pickering
8. Lucius
9. Ponomarev
10. Pieniniemi

Hopefully our 1st round pick instantly becomes our best prospect.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd go:

1. Yager
2. Ilyin
3. Blomqvist
4. Koivunen
5. Poulin
6. Murashov
7. Pickering
8. Lucius
9. Ponomarev
10. Pieniniemi

Hopefully our 1st round pick instantly becomes our best prospect.

Seems fair.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Pickering at 7th seems high to me.

I never liked that pick and I still don't get it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pickering at 7th seems high to me.

I never liked that pick and I still don't get it.

People wanted us to take a player with high upside. Owen Pickering has it.

He's had an issue putting on weight, but it makes complete sense why he was taken when he was taken.. size, skating, puck ability.

Also a high IQ.

Wouldn't be surprised if we are sitting here in a few years and Pickering is the best player on our team.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Don't forget Tankov........there is definitely something there ......there

 

[SEALBound]

So you want me to discuss, but everything I say is gonna be built in that I have some agenda about the player. Neat.

Sorry. Kyle Dubas. Amazing work. Great guy. GM of the year. The Penguins are without question in a better place with this absolute mastermind who has unparalleled success as our GM.

Jake trade is a clear win. Shades of the Hornqvist + Neal trade. Plus these prospects. Oh man these prospects are great.

Exhibit Triple-Z as to why people are sick of your shit. But it's not like we needed any further proof from you.

I'd go:

1. Yager
2. Ilyin
3. Blomqvist
4. Koivunen
5. Poulin
6. Murashov
7. Pickering
8. Lucius
9. Ponomarev
10. Pieniniemi

Hopefully our 1st round pick instantly becomes our best prospect.

I put Pono and Poulin on the same level. As per Canes fans, he should have started over Drury but he got hurt. He was pushing at the door just Poulin.

Ilyin is another interesting prospect that I have no idea what to do with. 0.5ppg at 18 in the KHL is pretty damn good. I just have no idea if that's better or worse than a PPG in the Liiga or NCAA. Tough call but since I like him a lot, I will keep him there. Luius and Broz are probably pretty close as well. Luius being younger gives him the nod in my book.

Yager
Blomqvist
Ilyin
Koivunen
Poulin-Ponomarev
Pickering
Luius
Broz
Pieniniemi
Plante

Can't wait for 2028:

Yager-Celebrini-Koivunen
Luius-Pono-Puustinen
DOC-Crosby-Plante
Tankov-Poulin-Puljujarvi

 

[Gurglesons]

Exhibit Triple-Z as to why people are sick of your shit. But it's not like we needed any further proof from you.

I put Pono and Poulin on the same level. As per Canes fans, he should have started over Drury but he got hurt. He was pushing at the door just Poulin.

Ilyin is another interesting prospect that I have no idea what to do with. 0.5ppg at 18 in the KHL is pretty damn good. I just have no idea if that's better or worse than a PPG in the Liiga or NCAA. Tough call but since I like him a lot, I will keep him there. Luius and Broz are probably pretty close as well. Luius being younger gives him the nod in my book.

Yager
Blomqvist
Ilyin
Koivunen
Poulin-Ponomarev
Pickering
Luius
Broz
Pieniniemi
Plante

Can't wait for 2028:

Yager-Celebrini-Koivunen
Luius-Pono-Puustinen
DOC-Crosby-Plante
Tankov-Poulin-Puljujarvi

There's an ignore feature. Feel free to use it.

Based on my engagement on the board. People seem to appreciate my posts more than yours

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Great. Macklin, Cruz, and Zam all on the same team.