Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

[Freeptop]

The Pens basically rebuilt on the fly over the course of 2014 through 2016 - more than half of Shero's final roster were gone by the time the Pens were lifting the Cup in 2016.

That said, that was with a core that was still in their prime, and some decent pieces available to move out to bring in key pieces like Hornqvist, Bonino, Cole, and, of course, Kessel.

When Crosby and Malkin retire, a "rebuild on the fly" simply won't be possible, because they won't have the kind of core pieces you need in order to pull that off. And the Pens have traded away far too many high draft picks to be able to pick up any core-caliber players in the meantime, so there isn't anything in the prospect pool to rebuild around, anyway.

Fact is, there's no avoiding a crash and burn once the big guys retire. The only question is if the Pens will be able to do anything to keep the dark times as short as possible, or if they'll end up lingering around the bottom for a long time like the Red Wings did after their core aged out.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

In some decent news, Zam Plante is leading the USHL in scoring (but not in points per game).

 

[Jacob]

Pickering seems like an omission but who knows. Project + on a bad team + TC politics.. hard to read too much into it. As others said every lineup projection had him not only on the team but usually 2nd pairing.

Maybe there will be some injuries.

Yager seems like a strong bet to make it. He’s eligible for next year’s team.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Feels like the team has done well in the draft the last two years atleast. Yager, Pickering, Murashov, Ilyin is a solid crop of guys. Other than Pickering theyve had pretty good D+1 seasons as well.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not Mike but in theory you definitely could- look at Dallas. Or Boston with the McAvoy/Pasta drafts. I think it’s pretty much just luck though.

I mean, I'm tempted to agree that drafting is largely luck, however some franchises seem "luckier" than others and I think that comes down to development not scouting. I understand taking the patient route with evaluating prospects and all, but I remain skeptical that our current scouting and development system is getting the most out of what we have. For example, someone like Hallander clearly could have made it in the NHL, but was both re-acquired and lost for nothing. That's an error, IMO, and for a team with as little in the pipeline as we have, it's a very troubling symptom of a team that doesn't quite know what it's doing, IMO.

 

[Peat]

I mean, I'm tempted to agree that drafting is largely luck, however some franchises seem "luckier" than others and I think that comes down to development not scouting. I understand taking the patient route with evaluating prospects and all, but I remain skeptical that our current scouting and development system is getting the most out of what we have. For example, someone like Hallander clearly could have made it in the NHL, but was both re-acquired and lost for nothing. That's an error, IMO, and for a team with as little in the pipeline as we have, it's a very troubling symptom of a team that doesn't quite know what it's doing, IMO.

One obvious thing to point out is that our current scouting and development team, and the scouting and development that got us into this mess, are fairly different things. The 16/17 drafts that were brutally bad and have left a gaping hole in terms of cheap talent have a different GM, different AGMs, different chief scout... I dunno about individual scouts and development guys, but I'm sure there's differences. Hell, we're quite different from the start of the Hextall era when they re-acquired Hallander (and I'm not sure how much I'm blaming the org for not realising that Hallander would decide he'd rather have stability in Sweden than chase the big time in NA, which I'm guessing involved a change of heart).

And I imagine Dubas is going to keep going.

In any case, I do think the Pens' biggest problems on this front have been the picks rather than what happens next. Between Rutherford losing his head for two years and Rutherford's attempts to trade everything of value of the system, I think there's been very little to work with. We don't have results for Hextall's work yet although it has to be said the results aren't super promising in the first couple rounds (but then, both Pickering and Broz were said to be long term projects (which seem a really good idea for a team in our position but oh well)).

And it'll be a long time before we see what Dubas is cooking.

The one other thing I'd add is that outdeveloping other teams seems a lot easier done when you have really high end guys to attach talent to. I think Dallas have benefited hugely from Pavelski up front. The Boston core that helped Pasta and McAvoy is obvious.

And I think we saw that when a bunch of guys came up from WBS and became cup winners in seconds.

But the team hasn't exactly don't a strong job of leveraging that since. And that goes beyond bringing through your own. Why hasn't this team taken more shots at guys like Jared McCann who are young and have talent but need developing?

 

[SEALBound]

In some decent news, Zam Plante is leading the USHL in scoring (but not in points per game).

As a 19yo. Be better if he was 18 but for a 5th-rounder, I'll take it! He could end up being a nice surprise but I also remember people saying he was a steal in the 5th round.

Feels like the team has done well in the draft the last two years atleast. Yager, Pickering, Murashov, Ilyin is a solid crop of guys. Other than Pickering theyve had pretty good D+1 seasons as well.

I did some checking on Ilyin. He's at roughly 0.5 ppg in the KHL...but at 18yo. There are VERY few 18yos in the league doing what he's doing. KHL is a very mid-late-20s and early-30s league. Not a ton of 18-20yos getting regular time. That said, as an 18/19yo, I think he's 2nd in scoring (in that age group) but not by much.

So I'm actually quite impressed by him doing what he's doing at 18yo. Hopefully he continues to develop and wants to come over.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Like Farkas, I also have to be careful what I say because I'm using my real name here.

But it looks to me like anything below a 3 for a ceiling potential coincides with Michael's DOA picks.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

In some decent news, Zam Plante is leading the USHL in scoring (but not in points per game).

That's pretty Zam good

 

[The Old Master]

Thanks Michael.

Just on this bit - how much influence does the team's input have vs their amateur team/their own skills coaches? How joined up is it?

lets put it this way . if your a coach and want at some point to be in the nhl, you will soon realize that the guy that's going to hire you is probably already in the nhl. and could be working for the team that just asked you to do something. so how much weight would that carry?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So in short, we're not drafting high skill/ceiling guys.

 

[Jacob]

No Pickering in SC’s lineup tonight. Maybe he is injured?

 

[Peat]

lets put it this way . if your a coach and want at some point to be in the nhl, you will soon realize that the guy that's going to hire you is probably already in the nhl. and could be working for the team that just asked you to do something. so how much weight would that carry?

I was getting more at time spent. No matter how much two guys will agree on something, the guy in charge of executing it will have more control.

But just on the subject of listening... I feel like that's going to be a team to team thing, no? Not every guy wants to reach the NHL, particularly when dealing with European coaches. I suspect private skill coaches are largely people who know they don't want an NHL life style too.

 

[The Old Master]

I was getting more at time spent. No matter how much two guys will agree on something, the guy in charge of executing it will have more control.

But just on the subject of listening... I feel like that's going to be a team to team thing, no? Not every guy wants to reach the NHL, particularly when dealing with European coaches. I suspect private skill coaches are largely people who know they don't want an NHL life style too.

and thats one of the reasons thatsome teams sometime push for a trade to get their guy out.

 

[deakka]

Both Pienimeimi and Kangas are on Finlands camp roster. I think they will only cut 1D. Pienimiemi looks like a lock. And my guess is Kangas are fighting for the 7d spot. Bit of a surprise he even among the 8D.

So with som luck we will have 3 players at the WJC in Yager, Pieinnni and Kamgas.
But the only lock is probably Pinimiemi.

 

[Gumbercules]

Yager makes the final Canada roster

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Yager makes the final Canada roster

Who was the last guy we had at the WJC. This is awesome

 

[Pancakes]

Who was the last guy we had at the WJC. This is awesome

Plenty.

The bigger question is who is the last one we had to play for one of the more powerhouse teams like Team Canada? Been a minute since we had someone on TC unless I'm forgetting.

 

[The GM]

Plenty.

The bigger question is who is the last one we had to play for one of the more powerhouse teams like Team Canada? Been a minute since we had someone on TC unless I'm forgetting.

Like pouliot?

 

[Gumbercules]

I think Addison may have been the last guy we had on Canada.

 

[Michael Farkas]

If goalies count...
In 2022,
Clang made Sweden, Blomqvist made Finland, Tankov made Russia I believe...but of course that was the last Covid cancellation (probably, I don't read)...I think the goalies made it in 2021 as well, but I don't recall them playing.

In 2020, Calen Addison made Team Canada. He had a really nice tournament too.

Unfortunately, we went through a phase where we only drafted US players that were on 3rd and 4th lines on their junior teams, so...ya know...you plant corn, you grow corn...

 

[chethejet]

pens have to rebuild and no way getting around that. Once Sid is gone maybe after next year and then the purge has to happen. Poulin, Yagar assuming he adds necessary weight and strength, a couple young D men and DOC, Acciari, Rakell and who ever Pens add this off season is at least a start.

 

[SEALBound]

pens have to rebuild and no way getting around that. Once Sid is gone maybe after next year and then the purge has to happen. Poulin, Yagar assuming he adds necessary weight and strength, a couple young D men and DOC, Acciari, Rakell and who ever Pens add this off season is at least a start.

We will tank once Sid, Malkin, and Tang are gone but that's fine.

Ideally, we send Jake out at the TDL and get a quality blue chip guy back and a 2025 1st. Then we draft top 5. Then when the core is gone, you get 2 or 3 top 5 picks. By that time, you have the likes of Yager and Pickering and the blue chip in their mid 20's who can compliment the new core guys you get with the top picks.

One thing to keep in mind, virtually every cup winner in the cap era (sans the Blues) have had at least one Top 3 pick as a core player. Unless you knock it out of the park with late 1sts or trades, you need those core superstars.

 

[Gumbercules]

Zam Plante is playing on USA at the World Junior A Championships the past week. US is in the bronze medal game which is on TSN right now. Plante just scored to put US up 1-0 early on an ugly turnover from the Swedish goalie.

For those unfamiliar with the tournament it is for players in tier II junior, so CHL players aren't there. Canada is split into two teams who are playing each other in the final. It's an odd tournament, but there are many NHLers that have played in it in the past (Shesterkin and Ehlers are a couple that come to mind).

 

[Jacob]

Ilyin and Murashov would be on Russia if they were allowed to play.

There’s time for COVID to hit Canada’s D-men necessitating Pickering getting the call.