Confirmed with Link: [PIT/MTL] Jeff Petry and Ryan Poehling for Mike Matheson and 4th PIT 2023

[BaseballCoach]

It's a rebuild. When you turnover 50 mil in salaries in less than 3 years, it's a rebuild.

You can jump through hoops playing semantics games, but a huge roster turnover is a rebuild and that's what were going through.

Of course. We are starting over and building anew. But once we decide which assets are not critical, the rest is smart building, and building takes time. Therefore, we can't wait to try to make it all happen in one day sometime in 2024 or 2025 or 2026. By then, we will have new guys making big money, and could be in the cap hell Toronto and Edmonton got into, with isolated good and expensive players but an unbalanced and unrounded team.

 

[Kriss E]

In absolute dollars you’re correct. But in a few years, as those expensive long term contracts become increasingly less productive, it will be the equivalent to us having four Gallaghers. Not a pretty sight.

Well Crosby is still signed, Malkin got a few years at 6M....its not so bad. I think they'll manage fine. What's more important is how they replace those guys.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Well Crosby is still signed, Malkin got a few years at 6M....its not so bad. I think they'll manage fine. What's more important is how they replace those guys.

Maybe, but maybe not. With the acquisition of Petry, the Penguins now have 4 core/key players north of 35 who accumulatively count for approximately 30 % of the team's cap. That's 4 key players who, because of their age, are at a greater risk of incurring injuries and an unexpected decline in performance. But as I posted earlier, the team was in the proverbial no-man's land position of having to choose breaking up the team and incurring the wrath of their fan base or doubling down and acquiring additional talent to buttress their aging core for one more run at the Cup. They chose the latter. Their decision flies in the face of the old and wise adage that its better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late. I strongly suspect there will be no soft landing for this franchise.

 

[schwang26]

They will be shipped out as part of trade packages, they were not HuGo picks and they don’t care for them

I'm sure that's completely wrong. There would be absolutely no reason for them to ship out assets because what, they didn't draft them? They'll deal them if they feel that they don't fit. Saying "they don't care for them" makes it sound like you were sitting next to them during dinner conversation.

 

[1909]

They will be shipped out as part of trade packages, they were not HuGo picks and they don’t care for them

So out Guhle, Caufield, Farrell, etc, etc, etc ????? ......... Ylonen and RHP might not be top-six or even full time NHL players, but they must be tried and tested before getting rid of them or let them rot at the AHL level.

 

[Kriss E]

Maybe, but maybe not. With the acquisition of Petry, the Penguins now have 4 core/key players north of 35 who accumulatively count for approximately 30 % of the team's cap. That's 4 key players who, because of their age, are at a greater risk of incurring injuries and an unexpected decline in performance. But as I posted earlier, the team was in the proverbial no-man's land position of having to choose breaking up the team and incurring the wrath of their fan base or doubling down and acquiring additional talent to buttress their aging core for one more run at the Cup. They chose the latter. Their decision flies in the face of the old and wise adage that its better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late. I strongly suspect there will be no soft landing for this franchise.

I think they've made the decision to go as far as those guys will carry them until they call it quits. As much as moving those guys would yield some interesting returns, I can also appreciate an organization deciding to fully commit to players they drafted. It's very rare nowadays that a player ends his career with the same team that drafted him.

The discussion though was more that Ozy suggested they didn't move these guys because they need to keep selling tickets. My point was their financial situation isn't dire to the point of having to rebuild a few years.
Their situation is very different than early 2000s.

So out Guhle, Caufield, Farrell, etc, etc, etc ????? ......... Ylonen and RHP might not be top-six or even full time NHL players, but they must be tried and tested before getting rid of them or let them rot at the AHL level.

You can't try and test every prospect though, and you should move out while they still have some interesting value.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Maybe, but maybe not. With the acquisition of Petry, the Penguins now have 4 core/key players north of 35 who accumulatively count for approximately 30 % of the team's cap. That's 4 key players who, because of their age, are at a greater risk of incurring injuries and an unexpected decline in performance. But as I posted earlier, the team was in the proverbial no-man's land position of having to choose breaking up the team and incurring the wrath of their fan base or doubling down and acquiring additional talent to buttress their aging core for one more run at the Cup. They chose the latter. Their decision flies in the face of the old and wise adage that its better to trade a player one year too early than one year too late. I strongly suspect there will be no soft landing for this franchise.

It doesn’t matter. They needed to sign core players to long term contracts to keep them. They have a 2-3 window remaining to make a an attempt at winning the cup, followed by a planned tanks that includes being terrible. Penguins are without question a tank success story that has provided them a 20 year window of competitiveness. These are the last few years of that window. They don’t want to be competitive 3 years from now.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Pez earned his spot, Poehling didn't.

It will be case by case.

This is a bad take. Poehling is certainly the better hockey player. Pens wanted to steal Poehling and they did. Pez has zero value for any team that’s actually trying to win games.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

This is a bad take. Poehling is certainly the better hockey player. Pens wanted to steal Poehling and they did. Pez has zero value for any team that’s actually trying to win games.

One bad take deserves another I guess.

 

[Zilo44]

I am not afraid one bit to see Poehling blossom elsewhere. It is not happening

 

[BaseballCoach]

This is a bad take. Poehling is certainly the better hockey player. Pens wanted to steal Poehling and they did. Pez has zero value for any team that’s actually trying to win games.

Yes, Poehling has the better tools, but as for effect on winning games, he has not shown it yet. His first NHL game and one two goal game last year. Maybe one more somewhere. Pezzetta had about three last year.

Last year:
Poehling 603 ES minutes -21
Pezzetta 393 ES minutes -7

Pezzetta who never played with strong linemates had a somewhat respectable goals against number because he is actually better at controlling the puck in his own zone than Fumbledisc.

I was a big Poehling fan but not shown much so far, and I'm not sure he has the work ethic I would like to see.

 

[26Mats]

This is a bad take. Poehling is certainly the better hockey player. Pens wanted to steal Poehling and they did. Pez has zero value for any team that’s actually trying to win games.

Well, I don't think Poehling got enough of a chance. But he didn't get traded because he was a previous regime draft choice. Pez was also a draft choice of the previous regime. They liked what Pez brought, but didn't like what Poehling brought.

I would also have kept Poehling over Pez. But really, I would have kept Poehling and Pez and sent a vet to the minors.

I wouldn't call getting Poehling a steal yet for Pit. I think he could become a good player. But I'm not sure of that. I'm ok with Matheson, but losing Poehling is the main piece in the trade that I was pissed about.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Well, I don't think Poehling got enough of a chance. But he didn't get traded because he was a previous regime draft choice. Pez was also a draft choice of the previous regime. They liked what Pez brought, but didn't like what Poehling brought.

I would also have kept Poehling over Pez. But really, I would have kept Poehling and Pez and sent a vet to the minors.

I wouldn't call getting Poehling a steal yet for Pit. I think he could become a good player. But I'm not sure of that. I'm ok with Matheson, but losing Poehling is the main piece in the trade that I was pissed about.

What I’m saying is, I don’t think this was Hughes trading Poehling and keeping Pez. Rather, I think we can assume Poehling was a request by the Pens. We know the Pens wanted Petry, and we know that Hughes insisted on Matheson in return. The Pens then obviously wanted something to sweeten the pot. Clearly Poehling was the guy to get it done. Doubt Pez would have got the trade done.

 

[26Mats]

What I’m saying is, I don’t think this was Hughes trading Poehling and keeping Pez. Rather, I think we can assume Poehling was a request by the Pens. We know the Pens wanted Petry, and we know that Hughes insisted on Matheson in return. The Pens then obviously wanted something to sweeten the pot. Clearly Poehling was the guy to get it done. Doubt Pez would have got the trade done.

This is true.

But I was replying to a post where the poster said former regime prospects will be traded. I said it depends on whether the new regime likes the prospect.

True it is my take that the new regime didn't think highly of Poehling. I think they could have gotten a deal done with another prospect. And Hughes did say trading Poehling allowed them to bring back Pitlick. I say, they should have kept Poehling AND Pitlick, and sent a vet with no possible future on the team like Drouin on waivers and then to Laval.

 

[SlafySZN]

What I’m saying is, I don’t think this was Hughes trading Poehling and keeping Pez. Rather, I think we can assume Poehling was a request by the Pens. We know the Pens wanted Petry, and we know that Hughes insisted on Matheson in return. The Pens then obviously wanted something to sweeten the pot. Clearly Poehling was the guy to get it done. Doubt Pez would have got the trade done.

Hughes said the pens asked for a center and he was comfortable giving Poehling since they now have Dach, Suzuki, Evans at center and it gave them the space for Pitlick.

Pitlick can play center too if they need.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

This is true.

But I was replying to a post where the poster said former regime prospects will be traded. I said it depends on whether the new regime likes the prospect.

True it is my take that the new regime didn't think highly of Poehling. I think they could have gotten a deal done with another prospect. And Hughes did say trading Poehling allowed them to bring back Pitlick. I say, they should have kept Poehling AND Pitlick, and sent a vet with no possible future on the team like Drouin on waivers and then to Laval.

...Poehling had no future with the team...no longer waiver exempt and didn't do anything to earn a spot, really...best to let the kid try again somewhere else...

 

[26Mats]

...Poehling had no future with the team...no longer waiver exempt and didn't do anything to earn a spot, really...best to let the kid try again somewhere else...

I would have liked to have seen what he could do on the wing instead of many of these washed up vets. Poehling has size, speed and hockey sense. IMO he was worth a look in a top 9 wing role. He was starting to get that look, but then got a concussion and when he came back he ran out of race track to get himself back up MSL's depth chart.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

If you are correct and the Penguins needed something ‘to sweeten the pot’ then you have all the affirmation you require to assess the current comparative values of a 27 year old Matheson to a 36 year old Petry. We acquired a younger, less expensive rising player for an older, more expensive declining player for the cost of Poehling. Other teams pay far more to move an increasingly unproductive contract. An excellent example of intuitive asset management.

 

[salbutera]

 

[Gravity]

Just realized we got a 4th rounder too in this deal. Nice.

 

[HuGort]

Hard to believe Poehling would end up like that after WJC he had. That tourney has to be worst way to judge future NHL talent.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hard to believe Poehling would end up like that after WJC he had. That tourney has to be worst way to judge future NHL talent.

By all accounts RP has been good in pittsburgh. He was always going to be a top 9 player and nothing more.

 

[SOLR]

Well Crosby is still signed, Malkin got a few years at 6M....its not so bad. I think they'll manage fine. What's more important is how they replace those guys.

You can't replace those guys reliably without tanking and they won't tank with them, well maybe not this year or next, would just take 1 injury.

 

[Tyson]

By all accounts RP has been good in pittsburgh. He was always going to be a top 9 player and nothing more.

Top 9?

 

[BLONG7]

Petry wanted out..................Matheson is excited about being in Montreal, so it's an easy win for the habs.
Poehling anf the pick, is a wash so to speak......
Penguins are also facing a rebuild fairly soon.