Proposal: PIT/DAL - Pouliot + for Nichushkin

[WhatWhat]

Nuke wanted more ice time, but he didn't play well enough to earn it. That's an attitude problem.

Wanting more ice time is not an attitude problem. Every player should want and try to get as much ice time as possible. Its handed out on merit but a player wanting more ice time, is a player who want to be better

 

[SEALBound]

Doesn't he get third line minutes? how could he reasonably expect 5-6million?

I didn't say that's what he expected. That was just an out of the air number that would make a team immediately say "nope". I could have also said "$x.x-mil <insert amount that makes your team's GM say no quickly>".

 

[WhatWhat]

Derrick Pouliot isn't that great but how does Valeri Nichushkin have any value at all?

Good for 30 points, will be cheap and is only 21? You're right he has absolutely no value...

 

[Troy McClure]

Wanting more ice time is not an attitude problem. Every player should want and try to get as much ice time as possible. Its handed out on merit but a player wanting more ice time, is a player who want to be better

Wanting more is great. Working hard to earn more is better. Whining to the media because the team won't gift you ideal ice time is a problem.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Every team is going to lose someone to the expansion draft, that's the reality of the situation. Unless trading for Pouliot means you'd lose someone like Dumoulin, I really don't like that line of thought for not trading for a player. Realistically, most teams are going to be losing a player like Lindell or Johns. With doing absolutely nothing except for trading Fleury, the Pens will likely lose either Pouliot, Daley (if he's re-signed) or Hagelin. With doing nothing, the Rangers are likely going to lose one of Fast or Lindberg. Nashville will likely lose Ellis or Jarnkrok. Basically, all teams are going to be losing a good player. Saying "we're going to have to lose a good player by making this trade" doesn't make sense when you consider that almost every team is going to be losing a good player. Unless you're going to be losing a top-6 winger or a top-4 defenseman by making a trade, I don't see that as a reasonable argument.

 

[dechire]

Unless you're going to be losing a top-6 winger or a top-4 defenseman by making a trade, I don't see that as a reasonable argument.

Lindell is viewed as a future top pairing D and Johns is already in the top 4 so actually that is what we're saying

 

[WTFMAN99]

Lindell is viewed as a future top pairing D and Johns is already in the top 4 so actually that is what we're saying

The Lindell expectations seem to be....large considering he isn't a blue chip guy. What about "Potentially a top 4 defenseman" - The top pairing potential just seems a little much, but that is my 2 cents.

I'm actually a fan of him too...but there is probably some on this board who don't even know who he is.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lindell is viewed as a future top pairing D and Johns is already in the top 4 so actually that is what we're saying

Okay my view of Lindell was off then, I thought he had top-4 potential but I didn't know it was higher than that. Still, my point about "every team will lose a good player" still stands. I wouldn't be surprised if Johns got picked, but I don't know that Lindell would get picked. Vegas is going to be getting defensemen like Despres/Manson/Fowler (Anaheim), Ellis (Nashville), Davidson (Edmonton), Scandella/Dumba (Minnesota), Johnson (Columbus) and McCabe (Buffalo). Are they really going to take guys like Johns or Lindell? I don't know. That's why I'm not necessarily scared of leaving Pouliot unprotected from the expansion draft, because I don't necessarily know that he'd get picked. I wouldn't be surprised for Schultz to get picked up over him (mainly because he's a RHD).

Wait, does Lindell even need to be protected from the expansion draft? Last year was his first full season in NA. Or does his loan to the Liiga count as a pro season?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Okay my view of Lindell was off then, I thought he had top-4 potential but I didn't know it was higher than that. Still, my point about "every team will lose a good player" still stands. I wouldn't be surprised if Johns got picked, but I don't know that Lindell would get picked. Vegas is going to be getting defensemen like Despres/Manson/Fowler (Anaheim), Ellis (Nashville), Davidson (Edmonton), Scandella/Dumba (Minnesota), Johnson (Columbus) and McCabe (Buffalo). Are they really going to take guys like Johns or Lindell? I don't know.

Wait, does Lindell even need to be protected from the expansion draft? Last year was his first full season in NA. Or does his loan to the Liiga count as a pro season?

He'll play another pro year this year so he'll need protecting.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He'll play another pro year this year so he'll need protecting.

But that's only 2 pro years, meaning he wouldn't need to be protected. You need to be playing in your 3rd pro year this year to be eligible for the expansion draft. It's the same reason that guys like McDavid don't need to be protected.

 

[Satan]

Okay my view of Lindell was off then, I thought he had top-4 potential but I didn't know it was higher than that. Still, my point about "every team will lose a good player" still stands. I wouldn't be surprised if Johns got picked, but I don't know that Lindell would get picked. Vegas is going to be getting defensemen like Despres/Manson/Fowler (Anaheim), Ellis (Nashville), Davidson (Edmonton), Scandella/Dumba (Minnesota), Johnson (Columbus) and McCabe (Buffalo). Are they really going to take guys like Johns or Lindell? I don't know. That's why I'm not necessarily scared of leaving Pouliot unprotected from the expansion draft, because I don't necessarily know that he'd get picked. I wouldn't be surprised for Schultz to get picked up over him (mainly because he's a RHD).

Wait, does Lindell even need to be protected from the expansion draft? Last year was his first full season in NA. Or does his loan to the Liiga count as a pro season?

Why risk it?


Yes he needs to be protected.

 

[Homesick]

Lindell is viewed as a future top pairing D and Johns is already in the top 4 so actually that is what we're saying

But we're talking about the NHL not the AHL

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Lindell needs to be protected, that means guys like McDavid will also have to be protected, which completely goes against what I've been reading. It would be nice to get some clarification on the "2 pro years" rule though, because if Lindell has to be protected, it basically means anyone who has played any pro years in hockey up to right now is eligible to be taken (outside of weird circumstances like Honka, who shouldn't be eligible for the AHL due to the CHL transfer agreement, but he's playing there anyway). I was under the impression that anyone that debuted in 2015-2016 was safe from the draft.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I think top pairing for Lindell is asking a ton, the 22 year old has hardly played in the league as it is and while he does just fine in slower leagues (AHL, "Luga") his lack of foot speed and overall refined smoothness to his game place him in the "what Sami Lepisto should have been" category more than the "what Rasmus Ristolainen is" category...he's got a shot to be a top 4 d-man in this league maybe, but that's far from a "probably" from what I've seen from him over the years...

 

[dechire]

The Lindell expectations seem to be....large considering he isn't a blue chip guy. What about "Potentially a top 4 defenseman" - The top pairing potential just seems a little much, but that is my 2 cents.

I'm actually a fan of him too...but there is probably some on this board who don't even know who he is.

Klingberg wasn't a blue chip prospect either but Lindell's progression has been similar to his. I'm not saying he's a guaranteed top pairing guy but that's his ceiling and the organization is very high on him. He's either the #1 or #2 Stars prospect depending on where you rank Honka.

And to answer Empoleon's question yes Lindell would need to be protected. A European loaned player with a signed ELC counts as playing a pro season.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

But that's only 2 pro years, meaning he wouldn't need to be protected. You need to be playing in your 3rd pro year this year to be eligible for the expansion draft. It's the same reason that guys like McDavid don't need to be protected.

Lindell signed his ELC in 2014, so his 2014/2015 season with Assat counts as a pro season. This will be Lindell's third pro season so he'll be eligible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Klingberg wasn't a blue chip prospect either but Lindell's progression has been similar to his. I'm not saying he's a guaranteed top pairing guy but that's his ceiling and the organization is very high on him. He's either the #1 or #2 Stars prospect depending on where you rank Honka.

And to answer Empoleon's question yes Lindell would need to be protected. A European loaned player with a signed ELC counts as playing a pro season.

Lindell signed his ELC in 2014, so his 2014/2015 season with Assat counts as a pro season. This will be Lindell's third pro season so he'll be eligible.

Oh crap, that means Sundqvist is eligible to be drafted from the Penguins. That makes sense for that rule, I didn't know if the 2 years rule was different than what I understood it to be or it had something to do with loaning players.

 

[dechire]

Oh crap, that means Sundqvist is eligible to be drafted from the Penguins. That makes sense for that rule, I didn't know if the 2 years rule was different than what I understood it to be or it had something to do with loaning players.

Yeah it looks like the exact same situation for Sundqvist. For NA players you can mostly say "He's on ELC so he's safe" but for European players you need to look up the date they signed their ELC. Kind of sucks but I'm not complaining considering the huge Honka loopholes Dallas has exploited

 

[Michael Farkas]

What difference does it make if Sundqvist is exposed...? I like Sundqvist and all, but I think we're realizing in this thread how many "oh crap" players are going to be exposed, you can only lose one per team and even then it's not a guarantee that it's the best one or that you can't get him back...a lot of people are taking this as if a Spanish Flu epidemic is coming to claim half of your 22 year olds...Sundqvist doesn't get one bit of interest if nothing much changes in his reputation because there's going to be about 20 more of him out there. Same with guys like Oleksiak and Nemeth, no one cares, every organization waives these types every October 3rd...

 

[jacks*]

Derrick Pouliot isn't that great but how does Valeri Nichushkin have any value at all?

Well the Habs would like to get that no value Nichushkin.
My question would he take up a protected spot in the expension draft next season? If not,
A guaranteed contract with the Habs and we trade our2017 1st for him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Klingberg wasn't a blue chip prospect either but Lindell's progression has been similar to his. I'm not saying he's a guaranteed top pairing guy but that's his ceiling and the organization is very high on him. He's either the #1 or #2 Stars prospect depending on where you rank Honka.

And to answer Empoleon's question yes Lindell would need to be protected. A European loaned player with a signed ELC counts as playing a pro season.

Hard to say....in my mind when I see guys with LHS and RHS as defenseman I don't really compare them to one another, i'd consider Lindell your top LHD prospect and Honka your top RHD prospect. Ranking them against one another I tend to leave up to others...I mean it's like with the Leafs prospect pool, yeah obviously Matthews is the top dog but I don't care how they rank the rest of them really, we own all of our prospects.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Dallas can't take another defenseman unless we're giving one back. So it would have to be Nichushkin + Oleksiak in any D deal.

Hopefully people read this post before making all the 500 inevitable Val proposals this week lol

what's the individual value on Penny's brother?

 

[Satan]

what's the individual value on Penny's brother?

Future considerations

 

[David Castillo]

I think top pairing for Lindell is asking a ton, the 22 year old has hardly played in the league as it is and while he does just fine in slower leagues (AHL, "Luga") his lack of foot speed and overall refined smoothness to his game place him in the "what Sami Lepisto should have been" category more than the "what Rasmus Ristolainen is" category...he's got a shot to be a top 4 d-man in this league maybe, but that's far from a "probably" from what I've seen from him over the years...

I was actually using your observations as a resource in my Training Camp Battle profile. I consider myself a skeptic with respect to how he's advertised. Fans and even Mike Heika seem to think he's a "big two way defensemen" and all I see is "amazing shooter...could use work everywhere else". At least at this point in his career as a prospect.

Curious if you're still on the doubtful side when it comes to Lindell. I break a keyboard everytime someone suggests we should trade Honka before Lindell. Are you more optimistic now given his growth? Or do you find yourself just as doubtful?

 

[Riptide]

Would Dallas take a pick for Nuke? He's one of the few potentially available players I would actually be okay offering a pick for.

With that though, Nuke + Oleksiak for Pouliot + pick/prospect, is something I would do.

I still don't think Pouliot makes a lot of sense for DAL. They have several young D that will be exposed to the draft in Honka and Johns. So I can't see them all that excited about acquiring another young D who is eligible.

I think MAF makes a lot more sense for DAL then something around Pouliot. As for PIT moving MAF, if they're getting either Lehtonen or Niemi (which they would absolutely have to for it to make sense for DAL), I don't think it matters. Murray should be the guy going into the playoffs, and either of those two should be good enough to step in if Murray needs a break. They may not be top tier #1 goalies, but with how effective Pittsburgh was at limiting shots, they should be good enough that PITs season wouldn't be over if Murray stumbles at all.