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OT: Pirates Talk: Lets Play Ball

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wheelz87 said:
absolutely atrocious call on Davis. going to robo ump can eliminate this but alas. always have that lingering feeling that the bucs never get those calls because we are small market.
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Per ump scorecards, we are the 8th least favored team in baseball, being favored about 42% of the time.

Least favored:

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Most favored:
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Omg fire Rabelo TONIGHT.

Thankfully Cruz ignored him. This is a basic judgment that a 3rd base coach needs to have. Extrapolate speed quickly.
 
Probably too little, too late, but nice to see some good baseball on the west coast. Seems like basically any of the non-Rockies NL West teams are usually a house of horrors for us, so hopefully we can at least keep the ball rolling.

I wonder how long we are going to push it with Chandler... it's pretty obvious manipulation at this point, but the Pirates have some cover in the sense that Burrows and Ashcraft have pitched well enough to warrant looks. I think there's legitimately an aspect of it where you don't want to just yank Burrows around entirely, so that probably buys another couple of starts. The NL ROY field is extremely wide open, so I think they are going to be extremely cautious.
 
DJ Spinoza said:
Probably too little, too late, but nice to see some good baseball on the west coast. Seems like basically any of the non-Rockies NL West teams are usually a house of horrors for us, so hopefully we can at least keep the ball rolling.

I wonder how long we are going to push it with Chandler... it's pretty obvious manipulation at this point, but the Pirates have some cover in the sense that Burrows and Ashcraft have pitched well enough to warrant looks. I think there's legitimately an aspect of it where you don't want to just yank Burrows around entirely, so that probably buys another couple of starts. The NL ROY field is extremely wide open, so I think they are going to be extremely cautious.
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Bubba will be freed this month.
 
Wild that 60 games into the season, the Pirates have already lost 18 games that they were leading in. That’s almost a 1/3 of games. Just insanely bad.
 
really starting to think that based on what we have seen from skenes in terms of utter commitment to craft that the sooner chandler gets called up and seated in the clubhouse next to skenes the better for him developing a plus complementary breaking pitch
 
cookthebooks said:
really starting to think that based on what we have seen from skenes in terms of utter commitment to craft that the sooner chandler gets called up and seated in the clubhouse next to skenes the better for him developing a plus complementary breaking pitch
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Imagine getting a 30HR guy and two more who can hit over .225

Would legit fight in NL Central, at least...let alone challenge in a postseason series

Potentially been gifted cornerstones of a rotation

And we're gonna let it die on the vine
 
I'm not quite sure what to make of Jarren Duran's name coming up in some trade rumors. It mostly seems like a big red flag, i.e. that 2024 was an extreme outlier season and the Red Sox might now seek to capitalize on whatever trade value he still has left.

But just spitballing, even with the potential warts, that might be the kind of risk that would be "necessary" in a Keller trade, given all of the other self-imposed constraints.

It's tough, because in general, my attitude with Keller and Reynolds is basically that moving them is going to make any path back to respectability way harder (obviously), but it's not too hard to see where things are trending: some kind of concentrated retool around Skenes and Chandler, who you hope can be as legit as advertised. Given the offense and his inconsistency, Reynolds is probably not worth even entertaining a move, but Keller is a different sort of proposition.

I think it's still tricky, mainly because there are really no guarantees with Chandler. The hype is warranted, but it's basically the best result imaginable that he comes up and has a solid debut this year and then is immediately a mainstay out of spring training next year. It's possible he does this, or does it with only a small number of bumps in the road, but it is worth repeating that Skenes is an extreme, absurd anomaly.

So subtracting a strong 190-200 IP veteran rotation anchor from an already bad team is a risky proposition, because we all know that the only actual path to contending is to add talent and not shuffle the deck.

But even with these caveats, if Duran is on the market, then it might be the right opportunity cost to try and jumpstart any kind of retool. I'm not sure it would even need to be Keller -- ideally, maybe you can even snipe him for non-Chandler young pitching talent. But it strikes me as one of the few potential names this summer who could be worth checking in on, even with the yellow/red flags of him being on the market after such a good season (if it's actually true that he is, and granting that the Red Sox have a unique logjam of batters).
 
I don't think you get anywhere near Duran with Keller. Seems like they would be asking for Chandler+.

A potential playoff team will throw more at them if they are really willing to trade him.
 
Yeah I think that's probably a good call, but Duran is someone who is hard to ballpark his value. It's only been 2 months, but the current season makes him look like last year was a huge outlier season and Boston may have been better off selling as high as possible this winter.

I see him as somewhat similar to Reynolds in a certain way, even though the skill sets are not the same. Reynolds had the monster 2021 but otherwise amounts to an above average corner OF. Duran looks like he might be about the same, except that he's a better defender who should be able to play CF for a little while longer (he's not for them just because of Raffaela, though his defensive metrics are down a touch).

I think they'd probably want Chandler for him, but Chandler has put himself in a position where he's in that untradable echelon of prospect talent. The team Duran has been linked to explicitly is of course the Padres, and I saw Red Sox fans throwing around Leo De Vries' name (one I saw was even De Vries + Estrada), which is even more delusional.

Keller is also not simple to ballpark value for, but I think there still could be something of a fit. The trouble with him is that he's a regular season stalwart, which is pretty important for securing in-season performance, but I don't know if he's the type of pitcher that you want as the second punch after Crochet in a playoff series. More like a strong #3. He's paid fairly, but it's often a seller's market and it's easier said than done to get his kind of production in free agency. That said, it's possible that his overall profile doesn't play as well in the AL East, maybe somewhat like how things went for Taillon.

I don't know, this is a long-winded way of saying that I agree, but I also look around and I don't see a ton of potential options. The Padres might be interested in Duran, but they are a pretty bad match. The Red Sox don't fully have to rush as I imagine they are ok slow playing Anthony a bit longer, but maybe they still see opportunity in 2025 due to how bunched up most of the AL teams are.

I think it's not totally worth ignoring given the likelihood that we are going to try and shed some salary and obviously there are some connections with Cherington, though not as strong as Toronto at this point. Maybe it would take some additional pieces to make sense (i.e., maybe adding Barco and getting back the volatile boom/bust Jhostnixon Garcia swings it a bit more for Boston's long-term needs), but I'll be curious to see if anything comes of it. I think the pessimistic take on Duran is that he's a solidly above average OF who isn't going to age very well, but he sticks out to me as the right kind of impossible fit in a prospective Keller trade, since moving Keller for prospects is almost surely going to be a disaster (and the whole entire current fiasco really points to the fact that we dropped the ball on moving Reynolds when his value was highest, since now he is not going to get much of anything in a deal).
 
I also don’t want Cherington trading for or out anyone.

He shouldn’t even be allowed to claim players off of waivers.

Besides being incompetent and cheap, I don’t know why Nutting is keeping him around.
 
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