OT: Pirates Talk: Lets Play Ball

Yeah, I came here to say the same thing. It's either time for it to happen now, with something like a roster refresh and Yorke/Chandler coming up for the weekend, or else it's just not gonna happen.

The season is clearly over, but at least this would kind of be planting a flag and trying to save some kind of face on the season.


In the scenario that Shelton isn't fired and finishes out the whole season...quick math at our current pace (12-26) is a 51 win 111 loss season... that would put Shelton just shy of the record at a .396 career win percentage.

I don't think this team is THAT bad but I think we're a solid bet for another 100 loss season.
 
I guess, i just don't get it... Firing Shelton to save face doesn't compute with a team/owner who doesn't have the self awareness that face must be saved

I legit don't think Nutting cares about performance

Source: look at this shit
 
I guess, i just don't get it... Firing Shelton to save face doesn't compute with a team/owner who doesn't have the self awareness that face must be saved

I legit don't think Nutting cares about performance

Source: look at this shit
If Bob fired Shelton he would be firing himself he is the responsible person just like Art and Tomlin
 
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Looks like they finally did it. I don't think it will change anything, but clearly they are banking on some kind of urgency from the change plus maybe the minor reinforcements of Horowitz and a Chandler or perhaps Yorke promotion, etc.

I don't really think managers matter that much, so it's ultimately not a big deal. Shelton did a lot of annoying things for me, but many of those were probably just general team decisions and not particular to Shelton himself, given the way the team works. At the end of the day, I don't really think 2025 is his fault in any meaningful sense. The options that he has for a significant part of the roster are not really any different than the "random veteran and castoff throw shit at the wall" stage of years 1-2 of any rebuild with your Ka'ai Toms, and so on.

It's ultimately on Nutting and Cherington that this organization got gifted Skenes and still put themselves in this mess.
 
Looks like they finally did it. I don't think it will change anything, but clearly they are banking on some kind of urgency from the change plus maybe the minor reinforcements of Horowitz and a Chandler or perhaps Yorke promotion, etc.

I don't really think managers matter that much, so it's ultimately not a big deal. Shelton did a lot of annoying things for me, but many of those were probably just general team decisions and not particular to Shelton himself, given the way the team works. At the end of the day, I don't really think 2025 is his fault in any meaningful sense. The options that he has for a significant part of the roster are not really any different than the "random veteran and castoff throw shit at the wall" stage of years 1-2 of any rebuild with your Ka'ai Toms, and so on.

It's ultimately on Nutting and Cherington that this organization got gifted Skenes and still put themselves in this mess.
It was too obvious a time to do it - if it hadn't happened now it wasn't going to happen.

No manager is winning with this roster. I think Shelton is a clown who needed to go, but this is largely just optics. But then again, just because Shelton wasn't the biggest problem doesn't mean he deserved to keep his job and he certainly did not.
 
I'm glad Shelton is being fired but Kelly better not be their full time manager going forward.

He'll be the manager for the rest of this season. After that, Cherington should be fired and he would be let go in the wash.

If Cherington isn't fired, I bet he starts next season as the manager.
 
The only change that I am looking for is if the number of bone headed decisions on the bases or errors in the field decrease or not. I think that is the only thing that can realistically change at this point,
 
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The biggest problem is that with the way the pace of seasons work, Cherington basically can't be fired until August or so. It's not possible to install a new leadership team in time for the draft and trade deadline.

This is where I think things can are headed from bad to worse. The draft seems relatively separate from things, and if Cherington is strongly in charge, he has garnered a lot of praise for the talent acquired anyways. But he cannot make trades where MLB talent is sent out and prospects are acquired to save his life, and surely the logical next step here is that guys like Keller and Reynolds are on the chopping block.

I guess either him or some replacement could cut a path where things are consolidated around Skenes/Chandler/Jones/Harrington and Cruz/???(Termarr?), (Trade acquisitions), but what we are looking at with sober eyes is a team that is effectively a 100-loss talent without too much of a cupboard of talent and absolutely no willingness to invest in free agency. It's grim no matter which way you look at it, which is why I think Shelton rightfully being fired is ultimately just a blip.

The only positive thing I can think to say about it is that it cuts out an excuse for when the team is still really bad and/or too buried for anything to matter.
 
The biggest problem is that with the way the pace of seasons work, Cherington basically can't be fired until August or so. It's not possible to install a new leadership team in time for the draft and trade deadline.

This is where I think things can are headed from bad to worse. The draft seems relatively separate from things, and if Cherington is strongly in charge, he has garnered a lot of praise for the talent acquired anyways. But he cannot make trades where MLB talent is sent out and prospects are acquired to save his life, and surely the logical next step here is that guys like Keller and Reynolds are on the chopping block.

I guess either him or some replacement could cut a path where things are consolidated around Skenes/Chandler/Jones/Harrington and Cruz/???(Termarr?), (Trade acquisitions), but what we are looking at with sober eyes is a team that is effectively a 100-loss talent without too much of a cupboard of talent and absolutely no willingness to invest in free agency. It's grim no matter which way you look at it, which is why I think Shelton rightfully being fired is ultimately just a blip.

The only positive thing I can think to say about it is that it cuts out an excuse for when the team is still really bad and/or too buried for anything to matter.
Is he good at drafting? He hasn't produced a single decent hitter through the draft in his years here. I am fine with letting someone else be in charge of the draft. I definitely don't want Cherington in charge of any trades.
 

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