Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?

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Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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Et tu, Brute? I don't believe you to be that naive, my dear friend.

Just "funnin around"; playing Devils' Advocate. However, I still say Rod Blagojevich was simply misunderstood. Anyone with hair that perfect mustve been bitten by a Werewolf as a child & deserves our sympathy instead of scorn, as is the case with most of his kit & kind. :)
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
4,335
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Time has runout.
There must have been a deadline with the league. How else can time runout. The deal is over, the city is now probably looking into blaming or maybe even sueing Goldwater for some cash. The city has nothing more to lose.

It's all my own personal opinion, don't try this at home, or bet, or invest any cash on it. :laugh:

That actually makes a lot of sense. The deal is dead so Glendale is looking to lay the blame and recoup some of the dough they have and will lose.
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
23,857
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And since the 6 Canadian teams today account for more than 30% of the NHL's revenue, just having 2 Canadian teams would have been disasterous financially for the NHL. The NHL knew what they were doing by saving the backbone on the league, the Canadian teams.

Today we are talking about a franchise ( Coyotes ) that has NEVER made money in its existance.
Only Toronto and Montreal are backbone Canadian teams. The other 4 have lost money at some point or another.

Having two Canadians teams would not be disastrous. The NHL is a league based in New York City. In fact I just want to watch hockey and the amount of Canadians does not matter to me.
 

Pegger5

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Jan 9, 2007
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Only Toronto and Montreal are backbone Canadian teams. The other 4 have lost money at some point or another.

Having two Canadians teams would not be disastrous. The NHL is a league based in New York City. In fact I just want to watch hockey and the amount of Canadians does not matter to me.

Montreal was also losing money in the late 90's and early 2000's.
 

Fugu

Guest
FWIW John Shannon said yesterday afternoon that "the league has not set any deadlines, but internally March 15th is the key".

http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest/Sources-Say/page/2

Oh course this was before Burnside's story on the COG's expected lawsuit.


Ah, you just had to post this, didn't you? Have you no mercy on our souls? It's like it's another TWO WEEKS.

:pullhair:

Beware the ides of March, indeed.


Ha ha. That's awesome. I was channeling something there.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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That'd be my take on it as well J93. I cant imagine the NHL wanting any part of this whatsoever, nor can I imagine an expedient resolution, as in within days one way or the other, considering appeals, possible counter-claims, filings & all of the rest of the minutae that clogs up & slows' down the process.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Et tu, Brute? You could only support what you just wrote above about public officials if you felt these people were always honest, and infallible. I don't believe you to be that naive, my dear friend.

It's a watchdog group. They may choose what they like to watch and dog, but they cannot act unless they believe that a govt entity has broken a law. I may not align myself with them politically, but I would never endorse any situation that allows publicly elected officials to break the law. Okay, maybe if the lives of thousands of children were at stake, but I'd have to draw the line at the humanitarian disaster level. And like the three laws of robotics, saving one doesn't condone the harm of another (or something to that effect). ;)



If there were no question of legality, GWI wouldn't have the possibility of meddling.



Not irrelevant, but extreme, I'll grant you. You almost sound like Rand--- move out of my way because there's business to be done.


I think the record will show that they have the right to COG's documents, and that if they believe there is a legal basis for their case--- they are allowed to sue. Has COG questioned their right to bring a suit?



Completely irrelevant. They are an organization that has set their own mandate. They need neither your approval nor mine. They're shining a flashlight in a dark & dirty kitchen to see how many cockroaches might be out. Will they find any?



You tell me. Who has the authority or right to set their mandate.

Next.


You sure about that? Your last crash and burn was impressive. :laugh:


What they have alleged is clearly stated by GWI spokespeople. If any part of a deal is illegal, it would nullify the entire agreement. Or are you going to claim that Hulsizer would proceed with parts of his agreement stricken?



The clear reality is that they can do so when they feel they are ready. Nothing you've said above precludes them from filing when they're ready.



You've gone out pretty far on this limb-- for a lawyer. The investment community will decide both IF they wish to invest, and the risk level to accept if they do indeed invest.

The statements are not inaccurate. You saying they are inaccurate doesn't make it so.




There are no guarantees in the world of investing. Sometimes people invest a lot of money into things and lose everything.

Obviously, due to this outcome, this is not the most prudent financing choice. The market has spoken. COG must revisit their options and choose the next most prudent course.

And again, GWI has every right to decide their mandate. It's too bad some don't like it, but there you have it. Freedom to pursue your own cause.



No, it is not interference [as Mork has now explained as well]. Everyone has a right to pursue their own business interests within the guidelines of the law. The question is - and remains - whether or not COG's actions would violate Arizona's constitution.

GWI has opined that they would, and if they embarked on this path, the possibility [perhaps even stated as a certainty] would be a lawsuit to contest it on the grounds of constitutionality.

Why would anyone argue about the public's and investment community-at-large's right to know the details?

Repeated for accuracy. I withdraw my previous half-baked positions entirely. I attribute them to temporary insanity.
 

New User Name

Registered User
Jan 2, 2008
13,095
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Only Toronto and Montreal are backbone Canadian teams. The other 4 have lost money at some point or another.

Having two Canadians teams would not be disastrous. The NHL is a league based in New York City. In fact I just want to watch hockey and the amount of Canadians does not matter to me.

I think every team has lost money as some point.

Even the Toronto team that was almost sold to Philadelphia before Conn Smythe stepped up.

I also believe the Canadian teams are the backbone of the league.

If you take into account how much total revenue they bring into the NHL, including TV contracts.

As for NY city, whoopee. The headquarters were in Montreal a lot longer and who knows, with a Canadian commissioner in the future, could return to Canada.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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Just think if Shoaltz had waded into this pool. ;)

When do we accuse Burnside of being someone's puppet, or just worrying about page clicks?

Or my personal favorite: HE HAS AN AGENDA!!!

Well it's hard to know sometimes what is actually going on when you have people doing things like this.

Hulsizer outlined the deal at that point and was left with the impression that there were no major issues.

--- This was in Burnsides article , there is no reference to any quotes or even a reference to the source of that statement. Heck not even that this was relaid to the COG

And yet it turns into this?

IF Scruggs allegation that Clint Bolick assured the COG that they were okay with the deal.

And I'm to be called into shame for pointing this out?

Some folks do pack a lot of audacity among other things.
 

headsigh

leave at once!
Oct 5, 2008
9,867
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Atlanta
ofthesouth.blogspot.com
Why did Bettman did nothing to save the Nordiques and the Jets in hockey places

They did.

and now fighting like hell to keep ICE HOCKEY teams in the sunbelt?

Because they're doing the same thing.

Wow, nothing like a good Thrashers - Predators game, I can't wait!
Neither can I.

4334210308_34349ec235.jpg

57389379.predsgame1a.jpg

468124193_29d915c29b.jpg

Atlanta-Thrashers-Playoff-2-7EBZWX3KHA-1280x1024.jpg


I'll never understand the people who assume there are no fans here or there's no interest in the teams. This is no different from the Chicago situation 10 years ago when they couldn't even get their home games on TV, or Pittsburgh, or even Edmonton when they were being *coughcoughoutdrawnbydallassureishockeymarkets* on a downward spiral. And notice something: when those teams started to get success back in, people started filling in the seats. If you win, they'll start coming.

So Phoenix has the best chance of all of the new franchises now (not going to say sun belt because columbus isnt' sun belt), really, because they're successful. If they win a playoff round this year, I believe they're set.
 

Lorenzo1000

Registered User
Sep 8, 2003
892
139
Winnipeg
Even if Scruggs alleged that, on what possible basis should we trust her statement to that effect? Need I refer to anything further than the "Fact Sheet" produced by the COG to justify the Hulsizer lease? If so, I am quite sure that I can find plenty of instances in which she has been less than forthright in her public pronouncements.


So when a person such as Hulsizer or Scruggs says another person such as Bolick (sic)
said something wouldn't that be what's referred to as "hearsay"?
 

Brominator

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Sep 12, 2009
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That'd be my take on it as well J93. I cant imagine the NHL wanting any part of this whatsoever, nor can I imagine an expedient resolution, as in within days one way or the other, considering appeals, possible counter-claims, filings & all of the rest of the minutae that clogs up & slows' down the process.

I think the COG was hoping that a lawsuit with GWI would scare them off. Their only hope is to scare GWI into agreeing not to pursue their lawsuit. It also has the side benefit of potentially recouping losses from GWI, but I think their primary tactic here is to just scare GWI away.

Of course, if the Coyotes really do leave Glendale, COG will probably have lots of people to sue... Moyes, the NHL, and GWI, and Janet Gretzky just for funzies.
 

Fugu

Guest
Gary Lawless:

http://twitter.com/garylawless/status/44246975134171136

Apparently the NHL is still trying to salvage the bond sale.

I guess this means COG will go ahead with selling the bonds at 9%?


In my opinion, I believe the rate is higher than 9%, assuming anyone is interested. It's possible that no one will bite with the lawsuit potential clearly articulated, but if I may speculate, 9% wouldn't get it done or else COG might have already issued. These are the only two possibilities.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Well it's hard to know sometimes what is actually going on when you have people doing things like this.

Hulsizer outlined the deal at that point and was left with the impression that there were no major issues.

--- This was in Burnsides article , there is no reference to any quotes or even a reference to the source of that statement. Heck not even that this was relaid to the COG

And yet it turns into this?

IF Scruggs allegation that Clint Bolick assured the COG that they were okay with the deal.

And I'm to be called into shame for pointing this out?

Some folks do pack a lot of audacity among other things.
My apologies. I withdraw my earlier post in its entirety. No "allegation" was made, and it was an irresponsible stretch on my part to suggest that Bolick provided "assurances". That portion of the article appears to be unsupported by anything. I withdraw my suggestion that your post was over the line.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,224
I was channeling something there.

From my op to Et Tu Brute'?. Any of the following ringing bells?; The Borgias?. "The Assassins Creed"?. "Your Mind is Damaged Child"?.... Thanks Fugu, thanks a lot.....

:squint::bolts
 

Jesus Christ Horburn

Registered User
Aug 22, 2008
13,942
1
In my opinion, I believe the rate is higher than 9%, assuming anyone is interested. It's possible that no one will bite with the lawsuit potential clearly articulated, but if I may speculate, 9% wouldn't get it done or else COG might have already issued. These are the only two possibilities.

But if it's higher than 9%, doesn't COG have to have another vote? I thought I read somewhere that they can only go up to 9% without holding another vote to allow them to go even higher.
 

8BostonRocker24

Registered User
Feb 8, 2006
9,275
8
Silicon Valley
I think every team has lost money as some point.

Even the Toronto team that was almost sold to Philadelphia before Conn Smythe stepped up.

I also believe the Canadian teams are the backbone of the league.

If you take into account how much total revenue they bring into the NHL, including TV contracts.

As for NY city, whoopee. The headquarters were in Montreal a lot longer and who knows, with a Canadian commissioner in the future, could return to Canada.
The "backbone" of The NHL is Toronto, New York, and Montreal. All valued at over $400 million. Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit, and Chicago are between $300 and $315 million.
Those would be the teams I would deem "backbone".

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/hockey-valuations-10_land.html
 

Fugu

Guest
But if it's higher than 9%, doesn't COG have to have another vote? I thought I read somewhere that they can only go up to 9% without holding another vote to allow them to go even higher.


Well that's part of the issue. If it were 9% or less, the sale could have gone through. It has not, and COG is on the defensive, citing that they would need to spend millions more [$100m per MH] than would be the case w/o GWI's presence.

That tells me there was a market, but it could only be more than 9%. How much more is open to conjecture. Thus, where there are the two options, 1) >9%, or (2) no buyers, I conclude that there were buyers but the amount required couldn't be justified by COG. Hence the part about, to paraphrase, needlessly costing the taxpayers more than would be otherwise possible.
 

billy blaze

Registered User
May 31, 2009
1,480
0
I'll never understand the people who assume there are no fans here or there's no interest in the teams. This is no different from the Chicago situation 10 years ago when they couldn't even get their home games on TV, or Pittsburgh, or even Edmonton when they were being *coughcoughoutdrawnbydallassureishockeymarkets* on a downward spiral. And notice something: when those teams started to get success back in, people started filling in the seats. If you win, they'll start coming.

So Phoenix has the best chance of all of the new franchises now (not going to say sun belt because columbus isnt' sun belt), really, because they're successful. If they win a playoff round this year, I believe they're set.[/QUOTE]

Or you could have done the research and learned that their owner PREVENTED home games from being shown on local over the air tv

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...528_1_rocky-wirtz-wirtz-corp-hawks-fan-base/2

After Rocky Wirtz lifted the ban on televising home games, those initial 2007 contests drew ratings on in the range of 0.3-0.4, roughly 10,000 TV households.
 

RAgIn

Registered User
Oct 21, 2010
900
0
Sudbury, Ont
Nope. She alleged that Bolick said that the GWI had everything they needed to analyze the deal, not that he thought the agreement was valid. For those who like to parse statements, note that she did not say that the GWI said that they had already analyzed the agreements. Moreover, it is interesting to note that since that time the COG has reportedly handed over an additional 650 pages of documents to the GWI.

That, I was aware of. Apart from the Burnside column, this is the only statement that I've heard her say in reference to Bolick. I guess I got confused by what Ghost was wanting. :amazed:
 
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