Phoenix LXXI: Daydream Belever

[Faltorvo]

When did professionals take over owning & operating franchises but for maybe a half a dozen of them in a 30 team league; employing anything more than legal minds to carry out there wishes, hatchet & yes men at NHL HQ with the exception of Collins and a few others? These guys arent professionals by any stretch of the imagination.... and ya, some people do sell their Voyageurs or Vegas' to the neighbour as they dont wanna go through the hassle of Craigslist or whatever. They'd rather expedite the matter here & now, receiving what they think is fair market value, get the thing out of the driveway.



MOD

The saddest part is that GH is under the impression that there would not be any blow back from such a move.

PKP anyone? Ya that kinda of businessman takes kindly to a 80 million dollar extortion bump in price laying down. Not to mention for a franchise that is void of staff and oh, players.

Owners will be happy exposing players to an expansion draft? Hrmm Schnieder or Lou for no compensation,Halak or Elliott? yummy.

The NHLPA won't have anything to say about this? , HRR anyone?, 30 jobs, nawwwwww.

Valid contracts becoming null and void when it was avoidable?

Just to name a couple off the top of my head.

Oh the media would have a field day with this one.

And what happens if no one steps up the year after and offers 250m , ooops.

 

[Gump Hasek]

i'm not moving the goalposts at all, i'm talking about economic relocation as well and as I'm saying, times changed, in the last 50 years it just doesn't happen, which is all that is relevant for a discussion about relocation today.

But that was not your initial claim. Your initial claim was...

they would never ever ever do that, That is a complete PR disaster and if they just turn around and sell Quebec or Seattle a new team, that really doesn't change anything, folding the team is the argument of people who have literally no understanding of sports markets

I then pointed out that the NFL cancelled 38 franchises in fact. You've since moved the goalpost as such.

Cheers, and good evening.

 

[Dado]

they might actually do that as part of the paperwork for all I know, but you don't fold them and announce open season on buying a new one

Announce what? They would most likely do it behind closed doors, all we'd see is the final "Team in Seattle next season!" final announcement.

 

[Gump Hasek]

The saddest part is that GH is under the impression that there would not be any blow back from such a move.

PKP anyone? Ya that kinda of businessman takes kindly to a 80 million dollar extortion bump in price laying down. Not to mention for a franchise that is void of staff and oh, players.

Hey, have you any proof that a team has ever been offered to PKP at $170 million? No? Then how is any price above that representative of extortion? *Hint: it isn't.*

Good evening.

 

[Nordskull]

The saddest part is that GH is under the impression that there would not be any blow back from such a move.

PKP anyone? Ya that kinda of businessman takes kindly to a 80 million dollar extortion bump in price laying down. Not to mention for a franchise that is void of staff and oh, players.

Owners will be happy exposing players to an expansion draft? Hrmm Schnieder or Lou for no compensation,Halak or Elliott? yummy.

The NHLPA won't have anything to say about this? , HRR anyone?, 30 jobs, nawwwwww.

Valid contracts becoming null and void when it was avoidable?

Just to name a couple off the top of my head.

Oh the media would have a field day with this one.

And what happens if no one steps up the year after and offers 250m , ooops.

What about that next bankrupt team operating in a public funded facility?

Bettman & co will certainly be able to play the same game they played in Glendale if they fold the Coyotes.

Even better, go ask that new market you want to get into to build an public funded new arena.

"Hockey? What's for?"

 

[Killion]

Yes, and it's now 2013, times changed a long time ago. Leagues never fold teams, it just looks bad, they move them now. I'd be fascinated to know the last time the NHL/NBA/NFL/MLB folded a franchise, but i'm pretty sure they haven't in the last 50 years or so

Your quite correct that its the worst possible option, however.... this IS the NHL were talkin about. Back in the 70's of course you had the Seals to Cleveland, then "amalgamated" with Minny, the Gunds selling to Green, who in turn sells to Dallas, the Brothers Gunn Swanning off to Northern California; SuperFibber Craig Leipold rewarded for a job badly done in Nashville with a return to "The Hockey State" and on & on & on. All kinds of Bizarro World crap goin down with the NHL throughout its years of existence. Its little wonder they attract the kinds of ownership wannabe's that they do and why an awful lot of Americans (and Canadians for that matter, myself included) have such a low opinion of them and or the "product" itself. Bush Leaguer's.

 

[Faltorvo]

Hey, have you any proof that a team has ever been offered to PKP at $170 million? No? Then how is any price above that representative of extortion? *Hint: it isn't.*

Good evening.

Sorry? where did i ever say anything about 170m?

 

[Gump Hasek]

Sorry? where did i ever say anything about 170m?

Well, I initially suggested a price of $250 million for a portable franchise. You followed with...

PKP anyone? Ya that kinda of businessman takes kindly to a 80 million dollar extortion bump in price laying down. Not to mention for a franchise that is void of staff and oh, players.

Simple math suggests you took $250 million and subtracted the supposed current $170 million dollar price to arrive at your $80 million extortion claim. Not sure how you came up with that number otherwise, but if so, apologies!

Must leave now, cheers.

 

[Faltorvo]

Well, I initially suggested a price of $250 million for a portable franchise. You followed with...



Simple math suggests you took $250 million and subtracted the supposed current $170 million dollar price to arrive at your $80 million extortion claim. Not sure how you came up with that number otherwise, but if so, apologies!

Actually you also posted a 275m option .

I only hypothesized 80 million because it would be a bump of 2.75m per owner.

Not even sure they would be interested in all that involves with what you are suggesting for such a measly amount.

I might have to adjust that to 145 million more in extortion price, at least each owner would get 5m per, but they would have to lose player assets in the expansion draft.

 

[rj]

I don't mean to be modest, or even naive, but I don't find coming up with $170M to buy a professional sports franchise as a terribly difficult venture if anyone really really wanted it.

it is when the world economy is shaky and a bank doesn't want to lend as much money, no one's buying the Coyotes or any other major pro sports team with zero money down, and the number of people that can conceive of having $170 million extra to burn...we're talking a small finite number

 

[Faltorvo]

Your quite correct that its the worst possible option, however.... this IS the NHL were talkin about. Back in the 70's of course you had the Seals to Cleveland, then "amalgamated" with Minny, the Gunds selling to Green, who in turn sells to Dallas, the Brothers Gunn Swanning off to Northern California; SuperFibber Craig Leipold rewarded for a job badly done in Nashville with a return to "The Hockey State" and on & on & on. All kinds of Bizarro World crap goin down with the NHL throughout its years of existence. Its little wonder they attract the kinds of ownership wannabe's that they do and why an awful lot of Americans (and Canadians for that matter, myself included) have such a low opinion of them and or the "product" itself. Bush Leaguer's.

Not even sure, seeing that the nhl owns the team (private owner, ya maybe), would be allowed to arbitrarily remove 30/50 jobs?.


Arbitrarily damage HRR in such a manner also?.

Not when there is a very viable option waiting in Quebec , ready to go.

 

[Fugu]

MOD:

Please-- No piling on and no personal crap. Thanks.

 

[ahplk]

Yes, and it's now 2013, times changed a long time ago. Leagues never fold teams, it just looks bad, they move them now. I'd be fascinated to know the last time the NHL/NBA/NFL/MLB folded a franchise, but i'm pretty sure they haven't in the last 50 years or so

Prior to the 1978-79 NHL season, the Cleveland Barons merged with the Minnesota North Stars. That's a folded team in my books, 35 years ago.

Anything can happen in this league (look at the past 4 years in Phoenix, 3 lockouts, and numerous relocations).

 

[Killion]

PKP anyone? Ya that kinda of businessman takes kindly to a 80 million dollar extortion bump in price laying down.

Ya, I mean, this isnt Sotheby's here, its not a frikin "auction". You do care who you sell to & where, absolutely critical with respect to the long-term stability of the league as a whole. If it was "highest bidder wins", then all bets are off. You'd lose control, and you just might not like the bids your receiving even if you set a minimum. ... and if someone matches the minimum and he's either an undesirable owner or perhaps the location might be, like say notorious arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi and he wants to move the team to Tehran whatre' you gonna do? Tell him no? He just bought it. Owns it. Highest bidder. You dont mess with people who are wealthy enough to purchase a franchise like this, and ya, PKP, despite desperately wanting a team wouldnt be in the least bit impressed nor open to paying a whole lot more than what True North dropped on the Thrashers. Markets about the same size, price tag on the Yotes as per Chipman & Thomson offer on the Coyotes, budgeted at $170M, then held to it by Gary Bettman with his airy fairy "Relo Fee".

 

[Coramoor]

But that was not your initial claim. Your initial claim was...

I then pointed out that the NFL cancelled 38 franchises in fact. You've since moved the goalpost as such.

Cheers, and good evening.

you talked about economic activity, so I followed along with your trend, you didnt actually dispute my argument that it was bad PR

 

[Coramoor]

Announce what? They would most likely do it behind closed doors, all we'd see is the final "Team in Seattle next season!" final announcement.

I fully agree with your statement, I don't care whether it's a folded team and a new one, or a true relocation, the only thing that i'm saying is that publicly, it will never be considered something other than the NHL giving ownership to PKP or Levin or whoever and the Phoenix Coyotes turned to whatever, don't miss a season

 

[Faltorvo]

I fully agree with your statement, I don't care whether it's a folded team and a new one, or a true relocation, the only thing that i'm saying is that publicly, it will never be considered something other than the NHL giving ownership to PKP or Levin or whoever and the Phoenix Coyotes turned to whatever, don't miss a season

Folded? Even behind closed doors? Even if it's for 1 minute.

Would that not mean then none of the management or players have a valid contract?

 

[pondnorth]

Announce what? They would most likely do it behind closed doors, all we'd see is the final "Team in Seattle next season!" final announcement.

Please explain how Seattle could be ready for hockey in an NHL quality building?Also,who would lose money til their new arena is ready?How long before NBA franchise is awarded?The clock is ticking,Qctober is only 9 months away.

 

[PeeBee78]

On Hotstove on CBC they just said 3 options:
1) Sell the franchise at significantly less to keep it in Glendale (Reinsdorf is willing but will only pay 50 cents on the dollar)
2) Relocate the franchise and deal with the lawsuit??? (What is this lawsuit about? Is that why the NHL is so reluctant to move? Will they get sued?)
3) Fold the franchise and recoup the loses on an expansion

I'm curious if that is why we haven't seen the franchise sold yet. Is there a lawsuit there?

 

[Evil Doctor]

Between 1920 and 1952 the NFL cancelled 38 franchises due economics.

http://lgstdept.wharton.upenn.edu/s...lanova Sports & Entertainment Law Journal.pdf

That was a nice read. Great link.

 

[Coramoor]

Folded? Even behind closed doors? Even if it's for 1 minute.

Would that not mean then none of the management or players have a valid contract?

transfer all the contracts to a holding company and then transfer it to the new team, it's probably doable without invalidating everything

 

[Mightygoose]

On Hotstove on CBC they just said 3 options:
1) Sell the franchise at significantly less to keep it in Glendale (Reinsdorf is willing but will only pay 50 cents on the dollar)
2) Relocate the franchise and deal with the lawsuit??? (What is this lawsuit about? Is that why the NHL is so reluctant to move? Will they get sued?)
3) Fold the franchise and recoup the loses on an expansion

I'm curious if that is why we haven't seen the franchise sold yet. Is there a lawsuit there?

Sounds like more mass speculation on everyone's part.

I was under the impression that Glendale waived their right to sue when the NHL took over the team.
Either way, they discounted a 2nd team in T.O. For next year. Seems like they're betting on QC if the team has to move.

 

[Nordskull]

That was a nice read. Great link.

St.Louis Brown Stockings
Cleveland Spiders
Brooklyn Superbas
Detroit Wolverines

Yeeehaaa!

 

[thom]

Don't mean to play politics but in canada it is very well known That Pierre Karl Paledeu the future owner of Quebec club has hatred for cbc.Sun media daily has anti-cbc editorial on it.That is why cbc does not want to talk about Quebecor because its a arch enemy of cbc

 

[Fugu]

On Hotstove on CBC they just said 3 options:
1) Sell the franchise at significantly less to keep it in Glendale (Reinsdorf is willing but will only pay 50 cents on the dollar)
2) Relocate the franchise and deal with the lawsuit??? (What is this lawsuit about? Is that why the NHL is so reluctant to move? Will they get sued?)
3) Fold the franchise and recoup the loses on an expansion

I'm curious if that is why we haven't seen the franchise sold yet. Is there a lawsuit there?

Are they under the impression that COG could file a suit since the original lease between the city and Coyotes was 30 years--- with substantial fines if the team is moved. I'm not sure what other suit there could be.