Proposal: Philly and Toronto

[LeafingTheWay]

If you bothered reading the thread you'd already see several posters show you those advanced stats.

No they don't. Many of those stats are without context and don't even directly compare to Kadri.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

If you reference the one season he had three years ago, you should maybe also discuss the seasons since then. Where Kadri hasn't played at that level.

Kadri's played at that level since has grown. It's obvious to me at least. Heck even this year, he should have had 55-60 points. But here's the common thing for the past 2 years:
1) Bad QoT (Grabner literally doesn't know how to put the puck into an empty net)
2) This year at the start he had a Voracek like start (amazing play, bad luck).
3) He's led the 2nd line in points for years, and this year he led the 1st line with points.

I could go on with 'excuses' I guess, but just watching him I can see the results. Under Babcock's possession game, Kadri's playing style fits perfectly.

Don't get me wrong, Couturier is the better player IMO (because I value defensive ability more) but Kadri isn't a 50 point center slouch, he should be a 55-60 point guy this year.

 

[Tripod]

Kadri's played at that level since has grown. It's obvious to me at least. Heck even this year, he should have had 55-60 points. But here's the common thing for the past 2 years:
1) Bad QoT (Grabner literally doesn't know how to put the puck into an empty net)
2) This year at the start he had a Voracek like start (amazing play, bad luck).
3) He's led the 2nd line in points for years, and this year he led the 1st line with points.

I could go on with 'excuses' I guess, but just watching him I can see the results. Under Babcock's possession game, Kadri's playing style fits perfectly.

Don't get me wrong, Couturier is the better player IMO (because I value defensive ability more) but Kadri isn't a 50 point center slouch, he should be a 55-60 point guy this year.

And that is all fair to say.

And that's why I tried to show Leaf fans that it wasn't a diss at Kadri. Flyers fans would keep Couts over Schenn and Simmonds who are both 55-60 point guys as well. Kadri is no different.

 

[CDP]

I like Couturier a lot but IMO it's not really worth adding Brown to Kadri to get him.

I can see why Flyers fans love him though.

 

[RomanianLeafs]

i really like Couts and i would have no pb trading Kadri for him, maybe even add Leivo, but Brown is a no go, kid could be our future captain i see him on a line with Matthews and Nylander

 

[1865]

I'm also huge into statistics. We both know that context is huge and yes numbers can be spun anyway. Kadri's 45 points lead the team while Couturier's 39 points were 6th on the team.
While Couturier got hot in the 2nd half, Kadri became normal in the last 2/3 of the season. His sh% was so unlucky (JUST like Voracek's at the start of the season) at a sh% around 2. It rose to normal later in the season, and he produced at the level we were expecting (55-60 pt center). The last 2 years have also been Toronto's worst years in so long, yet Kadri's been dynamite with no point totals to show for. That's directly related to the low on-ice sh% resulting from the lack of high QoT on the rebuilding team. For example, Grabner last year missed out on at least 10-15 breakaways/tap-ins that should have been easy goals. I'm sure some will say the same thing can be said for Couturier, but that's not true if we look at his on-ice sh% last year.

For this thread though, I don't do this deal. I do think Couturier is slightly the better player because I value defensive studs like Couturier a lot. But adding Brown doesn't make sense for me.

The argument keeps changing. Every time it's disproven it moves on to something else. Thank you for admitting Couturier is the better player though, some people on this board can't see past their own nose.

 

[1865]

So Couts only plays the PK? Bottom line is Couts is better defensively, Kadri is better offensively. Can both improve in those areas? Of course...would i add Brown to Kadri? No.

I've literally just shown you proof that over a two year period Couturier has scored at a higher pace than Kadri at ES and PP even with the added weight of loads of PK time. There's no evidence to suggest he's better offensively at all.

I don't get your first sentence. Couturier doesn't only play the PK, but Kadri definitely only plays ES and PP and plays far more of it.

 

[He Is Knocking]

I've literally just shown you proof that over a two year period Couturier has scored at a higher pace than Kadri at ES and PP even with the added weight of loads of PK time. There's no evidence to suggest he's better offensively at all.

I don't get your first sentence. Couturier doesn't only play the PK, but Kadri definitely only plays ES and PP and plays far more of it.

This right here. Chuckles at the thought of Conner being the difference between the two. That's no knock on Kadri but he isn't in Coots league.

 

[LV*]

No thanks.

Where will Couts slot in, on our third line right? Why not keep Kadri/Bozak there and then long term have Naz on the third with the Goat on the fourth line? Dumb trade for Toronto.

 

[flyersfan018]

No thanks.

Where will Couts slot in, on our third line right? Why not keep Kadri/Bozak there and then long term have Naz on the third with the Goat on the fourth line? Dumb trade for Toronto.

3rd line? Is Bozak somehow better than Couts too?

 

[Mr Hockey*]

3rd line? Is Bozak somehow better than Couts too?

1. Matthews
2. Nylander
3. Couturier

 

[LV*]

3rd line? Is Bozak somehow better than Couts too?

1. Matthews
2. Nylander
3. Couturier

Thanks Mike.

flyersfan018 this is how it looks long-term: Matthews, Nylander, Kadri and Gauthier

 

[Nithoniniel]

This is one of those trades that are probably pretty good because it is enticing while it really hurts. Couturier is the better player, and is a better fit than Kadri in the 3 slot. He could have a real impact there with his rare defensive skill set and ability to provide depth offense. Brown is a hefty piece, but I think it might be worth it, and I also think he would fit the Flyers well.

In the end, I don't think Flyers does this trade as Couturier is too valuable to them with how they look right now, but a worthwhile proposal.

 

[Tripod]

It hasn't been mentioned, but where does brown fit in Philly when they have this as their top 6 wingers:

Voracek
Simmonds
Schenn
Konecny

Then they have Lindblom and Aube Kubel on the way. Downgrading at C is not worth adding a possible 3rd line winger.

Reality is, both fan bases are quite happy with who they have. Let's keep it that way.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

It hasn't been mentioned, but where does brown fit in Philly when they have this as their top 6 wingers:

Voracek
Simmonds
Schenn
Konecny

Then they have Lindblom and Aube Kubel on the way. Downgrading at C is not worth adding a possible 3rd line winger.

Reality is, both fan bases are quite happy with who they have. Let's keep it that way.

brown is a decent two way 3rd line guy.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Speaking as a fan of neither team, for Phili, acquiring Kadri seems redundant. More contribution offensively, but definitely a step down defensively from Couturier. I think they would be better off, a more competitive team, with Giroux, Couts, and Schenn (I know he slots in at wing, for the most part) in the mix. So, the real issue is how much further Brown will develop.

 

[TML1967]

Id make the trade as a Leafs fan. To me he creams #2 shut down C with some good numbers. Id say Brown is costly, but with the other wingers (including Nylander, who in my mind stays a W if we had a #2 shut down C) I think it makes sense.

This would give you..
JVR - Matthews - Marner/Nylander
Kapanen/Rychel/JohnsonTimashov - SC - Marner/Nylander

Thats a nicely balance top 6.

 

[Dustin]

First off as far as value is concerned Brown is not the difference between the 2.

As for Couts best case scenario for the Leafs is that he gets pushed back to a 3C. We already have that in Kadri and the bump in defense is not enough to be looking to add to take care of our 3C position. Brown could be a top 6 winger in less than 2 years. So in essence this trades is a 2nd line winger and a 3rd line center for a 3rd line center. Don't see how that makes any sense for Toronto.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

First off as far as value is concerned Brown is not the difference between the 2.

As for Couts best case scenario for the Leafs is that he gets pushed back to a 3C. We already have that in Kadri and the bump in defense is not enough to be looking to add to take care of our 3C position. Brown could be a top 6 winger in less than 2 years. So in essence this trades is a 2nd line winger and a 3rd line center for a 3rd line center. Don't see how that makes any sense for Toronto.

Okay we can move past this 3rd line center nonsense.

1) Couturier is an exceptional defensive forward, maybe the best I've seen in a Flyers uniform.

2) He has plenty of offensive upside and already scoring at a 50point pace. He showed a big improvement before getting injured last year (first time since being in the NHL). Played the 2nd powerplay unit that could not survive without him there.

3) He is a clear #2 center on the Flyers and that's behind Claude Giroux, which is better (right now) than any player in your lineup, Matthews included. Quite frankly Kadri won't get you Couturier and if he did, he would be #2 on your team by line mate quality, not minutes played. because you can put him with anyone in the league and he will make sure they don't look bad. Also remember that the leafs are nowhere near playoff bound and the Flyers are poised to be a dark horse next year. So quality of depth is clearly a case here.

I remember leafs fans saying that B.Schenn wasn't worth a bag of pucks and now not many would rate Kadri over B.Schenn, especially since B.Schenn looked excellent 2nd half of last season. No one outside of Toronto at least. I like Kadri, I would want him on my team. He's a highly skilled player with a top 6 role. But quite frankly to think that an Elite defensive center is not worth a #2 center on a bad team is laughable. I'm not here to **** on your players, because I really like a lot of your prospects and young players. I see a bright future for the Leafs. However, don't get ahead of yourself and start insulting talented players to compensate.

I read a lot of comments on here about Couturiers game and honestly you guys should probably do a little more research before making statements about a player you know very little about. I wouldn't be surprised if Couturier is the talk of the town this upcoming season. He's already a David Backes type and I can see him being Bergeron type within the next 12-24 months.