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Player Discussion Phillip Danault: What's My Line Edition

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Honest question. If Price needs all the time he needs to get his head right and work with Waite, why isn't Danault getting the same treatment and dropping down or sitting out until he gets his head out of his ass? He hasn't scored on a goalie in a year. You'd think we could slide a KK into his spot without too much hard, no?
 
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Sterling Archer said:
Honest question. If Price needs all the time he needs to get his head right and work with Waite, why isn't Danault getting the same treatment and dropping down or sitting out until he gets his head out of his ass? He hasn't scored on a goalie in a year. You'd think we could slide a KK into his spot without too much hard, no?
Click to expand...

We all know why, so there's no sense in saying it and starting a war...
 
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CHfan1 said:
Are you using stats from the last 3 seasons or from this season alone?

He hasn’t looked great this season, obviously hasn’t scored in forever, his stats are not good on important faceoffs (defensive zone, PK, the last OT), hasn’t looked good on the PK, and has made some questionable line changes (that don’t count against his stats). Going back the bubble, looking at the goals he’s been involved in, he has made only a handful of plays that have directly lead to goals.

As far as losing him, I don’t mind seeing the Habs keeping him at a reasonable salary hit, I think he can turn it around. But I’m happy that he turned down 6 years at $5 million per with the way he is playing.

But if you think he would be a big loss for the Habs what do you think Bergevin should offer him for a contract?
Click to expand...


Danault's line is a shutdown possession line, not a scoring line. It's not your typical top line, it's more a power-vs-power 2nd line. He leads all North Div centers in Expected Goals For % and Goals For %... he's doing fine. If we tweak the transition he won't have to dig out of his own end and then pick up the shovel again in the offensive end. AND be expected to score. No one could do all that- Crosby for a few years, but who else in history? Clarke? Morenz? Beliveau? There aren't many. Most of your top scoring centers don't touch a shovel.

Danault wears many hats- penalty killer, face-off man, defender, build-up passer, facilitator, board-man, playmaker... we need to re-sign him badly or this won't be the same team.
 
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tinyzombies said:
Danault's line is a shutdown possession line, not a scoring line. It's not your typical top line, it's more a power-vs-power 2nd line. He leads all North Div centers in Expected Goals For % and Goals For %... he's doing fine. If we tweak the transition he won't have to dig out of his own end and then pick up the shovel again in the offensive end. AND be expected to score. No one could do all that- Crosby for a few years, but who else in history? Clarke? Morenz? Beliveau? There aren't many. Most of your top scoring centers don't touch a shovel.
Click to expand...

He’s leading McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl, and Sheifele in Expected Goals For % and Goals For % this season? Do you have a link to that stat?

Watching him I still don’t know how he’s doing fine this season compared to his past seasons.
 
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He hasn’t scored a goal in practice this year. He sucks. He’s a 4 th line Center or maybe a 2 in the ahl.
 
tinyzombies said:
Danault's line is a shutdown possession line, not a scoring line. It's not your typical top line, it's more a power-vs-power 2nd line. He leads all North Div centers in Expected Goals For % and Goals For %... he's doing fine. If we tweak the transition he won't have to dig out of his own end and then pick up the shovel again in the offensive end. AND be expected to score. No one could do all that- Crosby for a few years, but who else in history? Clarke? Morenz? Beliveau? There aren't many. Most of your top scoring centers don't touch a shovel.
Click to expand...

And yet another example of watching stats instead of games...Danault is not doing fine; he's not winning faceoffs, he's not creating offense or playing well defensively, he's not "digging" anything out of his own end except pucks out of our net...Jake Evans is outplaying him, ffs...so either they run with Kotkaniemi and see if he can develop into a Top 6 centre or they waste another year of his development & keep the Black Hole Danault train chugging along...it's pretty simple and yet sooo complicated for Habs management for some stupid reason...
 
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CHfan1 said:
He’s leading McDavid, Matthews, Draisaitl, and Sheifele in Expected Goals For % and Goals For % this season? Do you have a link to that stat?
Click to expand...

He's slightly ahead of Matthews, those other guys don't play defense. You can search this yourself on Naturalstattrick:

155217194_10159042621651221_2230967651517118537_o.jpg
 
BigDaddyLurch said:
And yet another example of watching stats instead of games...Danault is not doing fine; he's not winning faceoffs, he's not creating offense or playing well defensively, he's not "digging" anything out of his own end except pucks out of our net...Jake Evans is outplaying him, ffs...so either they run with Kotkaniemi and see if he can develop into a Top 6 centre or they waste another year of his development & keep the Black Hole Danault train chugging along...it's pretty simple and yet sooo complicated for Habs management for some stupid reason...
Click to expand...

He was at 52% on draws up until a few games ago. He certainly is creating offense, the problem is the transition game, and he definitely is shutting down lines. Elite lines. Danault is not the problem with this team.
 
I just dont see how he scores this year, I dont, muffin shot, muffin backhand, speeds gone, defense is lackluster now

Can you imagine 0 goals in 56 games this year what thats gonna look like lol.. he probably STILL walks and gets much less than 5 mill a year

this whole thing has been absolutely mind blowing with Phil its honestly amazing

I still cant even understand people saying "ehh id still give him a shot with 1-3 years 3.5mill or 4 mill" like WHAT? for WHAT, more 0 goal games?! his shots gonna miraculously get better??

This isnt "ohhh maybe the contract stuff is in his head" no, this is just a guy whos not trying to BREAK into the league anymore, this just looks like a guy whos comfortable, doesnt have to worry about his spot, french kid playing for the french team so in his mind "pfff obviously im going nowhere but here, this is MY town"
I just see a guy where the hunger is gone, and he just doesnt have the talent to maintain his early good play for the team when he was 23-24 trying to make a name for himself, to him he's "arrived" and not going anywhere, the word is "complacent" really, and its sickening

He absolutely has to GO
 
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Redux91 said:
I just dont see how he scores this year, I dont, muffin shot, muffin backhand, speeds gone, defense is lackluster now

Can you imagine 0 goals in 56 games this year what thats gonna look like lol.. he probably STILL walks and gets much less than 5 mill a year

this whole thing has been absolutely mind blowing with Phil its honestly amazing

I still cant even understand people saying "ehh id still give him a shot with 1-3 years 3.5mill or 4 mill" like WHAT? for WHAT, more 0 goal games?! his shots gonna miraculously get better??

This isnt "ohhh maybe the contract stuff is in his head" no, this is just a guy whos not trying to BREAK into the league anymore, this just looks like a guy whos comfortable, doesnt have to worry about his spot, french kid playing for the french team so in his mind "pfff obviously im going nowhere but here, this is MY town"
I just see a guy where the hunger is gone, and he just doesnt have the talent to maintain his early good play for the team when he was 23-24 trying to make a name for himself, to him he's "arrived" and not going anywhere, the word is "complacent" really, and its sickening

He absolutely has to GO
Click to expand...

THis is a whole lotta nuthin.
 
tinyzombies said:
He was at 52% on draws up until a few games ago. He certainly is creating offense, the problem is the transition game, and he definitely is shutting down lines. Elite lines. Danault is not the problem with this team.
Click to expand...

There's no doubt the #1 problem is the transition game, we've all been saying that all year...and 52% faceoffs for our "elite" faceoff C is horrible and now he's even worse, which adds to the Habs not having possession of the puck, so any transition game is negated regardless...he even got our hottest winger from Kotkaniemi's line and still couldn't do a damn thing...so if it's his "sparkling" defensive game that's supposedly keeping us going, then why not give him the grinders like Armia and Lehkonen & give Kotkaniemi the more offensive wingers and better offensive deployment??...because that would make sense...
 
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tinyzombies said:
Danault's line is a shutdown possession line, not a scoring line. It's not your typical top line, it's more a power-vs-power 2nd line. He leads all North Div centers in Expected Goals For % and Goals For %... he's doing fine. If we tweak the transition he won't have to dig out of his own end and then pick up the shovel again in the offensive end. AND be expected to score. No one could do all that- Crosby for a few years, but who else in history? Clarke? Morenz? Beliveau? There aren't many. Most of your top scoring centers don't touch a shovel.

Danault wears many hats- penalty killer, face-off man, defender, build-up passer, facilitator, board-man, playmaker... we need to re-sign him badly or this won't be the same team.
Click to expand...
We all recognize this.........we all want Phil to be the 3rd line C. It's Phil who thinks he can bring more...It's Phil who turned down 30M.
We all get it, but the guy who should get it.
 
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BigDaddyLurch said:
You are correct here; Jake Evans has been a better #3C this year...
Click to expand...

Another incorrect statement. Danault is to the right of KK here, his name is blocked. In fact it might be time to give Poehling a shot. He is a big body and has been playing well in Laval. Armia is starting to come around after his injury also, so that will help our bottom 6. I doubt Ducharme will bury and overload our 4th line like Julien tho, but hopefully he also reduces their minutes, so these numbers will likely change.

RAPM isolate visualizations, which show a player's estimated isolated impact on scoring chances for and against:

upload_2021-3-1_16-20-4.png
 
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tinyzombies said:
He's slightly ahead of Matthews, those other guys don't play defense. You can search this yourself on Naturalstattrick:

View attachment 402040
Click to expand...

Ok thanks for letting me know where you got the info.

And that list doesn’t really give advanced stats a good endorsement. He’s the 11th best player on that list. He hasn’t passed the eye test this season. He’s below 50% on important faceoffs in the defensive zone and on the pk. And he really hasn’t created that much offence in the last 30 games (including the bubble). His even strength goal differential is +2 and down from where is it was at the start of last season. It also helps that plays like the ones below don’t count against that.

Here he makes a lazy change that leads to an odd man rush.



And this one, where if he takes another couple steps forward and presses the d-man before changing he closes off the passing lane. Yeah Weber had an even worse play with the pinch.



And he had a terrible shift in OT last game that lead to a goal.

He isn’t playing to the level he was in the last couple of seasons.

BTW I’m not saying the team has been bad because of him, there are a lot of other reasons.

But if the cost to keep him was 6 years at $5 million per it’s not a big loss if the Habs lose him.
 
tinyzombies said:
Another incorrect statement. Danault is to the right of KK here, his name is blocked. In fact it might be time to give Poehling a shot. He is a big body and has been playing well in Laval. Armia is starting to come around after his injury also, so that will help our bottom 6. I doubt Ducharme will bury and overload our 4th line like Julien tho, but hopefully he also reduces their minutes, so these numbers will likely change.

View attachment 402049
Click to expand...

So Tatar is one of the best overall player both offensively and defensively in the whole league. Either i'm reading that chart wrong or the chart itself is not worth much.
 
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tinyzombies said:
Danault's line is a c, not a scoring line. It's not your typical top line, it's more a power-vs-power 2nd line. He leads all North Div centers in Expected Goals For % and Goals For %... he's doing fine. If we tweak the transition he won't have to dig out of his own end and then pick up the shovel again in the offensive end. AND be expected to score. No one could do all that- Crosby for a few years, but who else in history? Clarke? Morenz? Beliveau? There aren't many. Most of your top scoring centers don't touch a shovel.

Danault wears many hats- penalty killer, face-off man, defender, build-up passer, facilitator, board-man, playmaker... we need to re-sign him badly or this won't be the same team.
Click to expand...
A "Shutdown possession" C is the definition of a 3rd or 4th line player. Even then he's expected to generate more offence than Danault, whose offensive contribution is near the bottom of the league. There is no way to spin this reality. Here's Danault's rank among centers:

upload_2021-3-1_16-34-56.png
 
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On paper:

On paper, the Avs should have absolutely destroyed the Stars last year in the playoffs...
On paper, the Leafs should have made it out of the 1st Round by now...
On paper, the Sabres should have been contending for a PO spot this year, not the 1st Overall pick...
On paper, the Habs should be contending for the Division, not fighting with the Flames, 'Nucks, and Sens for the last PO spot...

Pity Hockey isn't played on paper, eh...
 
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Danault has been absolute garbage since the whole COVID thing started. He used to be a good 2nd line center, or elite 3rd C. But ever since last season was cancelled, he's been saying stuff like he didn't feel like playing in the bubble last playoffs and playing horribly.

I don't know if he got into arguments with Bergevin for not wanting to play in the bubble, or his dog as cancer or his grandma died, but his head is far far away from hockey and it shows.
 
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Lshap said:
A "Shutdown possession" C is the definition of a 3rd or 4th line player. Even then he's expected to generate more offence than Danault, whose offensive contribution is near the bottom of the league. There is no way to spin this reality. Here's Danault's rank among centers:

View attachment 402052
Click to expand...

That's the wrong way to look at his function on that line.

he also faces the 8th toughest quality of competition in the league, and he's outscored them at 5's 12-6.

upload_2021-3-1_16-48-8.png
 
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