Player Discussion Phillip Danault - The Centermania Edition

[Sorinth]

A decent number. Eller's had 38 and 36 his past two full seasons as a 3C, and on pace for 46 right now. Bozak 38 last year. Coyle on pace for 43 right now. Thornton 51 last year, Tyler Johnson 47, Eakin 41. There aren't as many teams with a defined 3C these days since lines are more flexible and the dedicated "3rd line checking line" isn't as common so your 3C can be more situational, but for a great team 40p is a pretty reasonable ballpark figure for a defined 3C.

A lot of those players get significant PP time. So yeah in a more traditional 3rd line role where you get minimal PP time 35 points is probably about the max you can expect from the 3rd line.

From the post you're replying to: "It's just frustrating that we keep having the same circular arguments about whether Danault is a 1C or not because the point is if you want to contend you need to have a center (and ideally two) who's so good it is absurd to even ask the question"

Not sure what the Malkin gotcha is supposed to mean. I'm saying exactly that (contenders need 1st liners on their 2nd lines).

I said I think Danault is an adequate 1C, good 2C, and super luxury 3C with a direct comparison to someone like Jordan Staal. What I'm arguing is that the fact there's even an argument and that we need to use all these qualifiers like "underrated" and "better than the sum of their parts" about our top line and 1C means it's not good enough.

Are people really arguing Danault is a #1 C, or are they saying he's a legitimate top-6 center? Because the debate seems to mostly come down to some people claiming he's a 3rd line C who has 0 hands, passing, vision, skill and others defending him. Calling him a luxury 3C, is the same as calling Malkin a luxury 2C, yes it's a luxury to have a good player pushed down into a lesser role because of even better players but describing him like that is stupid.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Calling him a luxury 3C, is the same as calling Malkin a luxury 2C, yes it's a luxury to have a good player pushed down into a lesser role because of even better players but describing him like that is stupid.

no it isn't.

Nobody believes Malkin's a 2C. We all know he's a #1.
OTOH, many believe Danault is a 3C.

 

[ECWHSWI]

No it's what you assume I did because you clearly didn't read the post(s).

wrong.

no point going any forther, you'll bring back the same name all the time anyway, thinking you're making a point.


(even better, you're talking about Malkin now lol)

 

[Sorinth]

no it isn't.

Nobody believes Malkin's a 2C. We all know he's a #1.
OTOH, many believe Danault is a 3C.

Just because many people believe it, doesn't make it true.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Just because many people believe it, doesn't make it true.

unless you you’re one of those people, then it’s true, right? Like your comment that I quoted. lol

Bergeron, Malkin.... I couldn’t help but notice you haven’t mentioned Gretzky yet.

 

[Wats]

He's basically our Cirelli/Coyle type. As long as he isn't making too much, think he can realistically be part of a contending team even is by miracle Suzuki/KK become legitimate top 6 C.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Assuming that KK is more NHL ready next year, what do you do up the middle with :

KK
Suzuki
Domi
Danault

????

Keep dreaming, Danault will stay with Tatar and Gally nothing will change.

Suzuki may struggle, but it will be blamed on the "sophomore slump" and not the fact that we have no wingers to play with him.

Kotkaniemi will probably play with Armia and Lehky and some Habs fans will shit on him, because he can't score 45 points from the 3rd line with scrubs, meanwhile they praise our so-called #1C, who have a hard time getting 50 points with our best wingers.

Domi may be traded, but it will be a mistake, I would trade Drouin before him.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Calling him a luxury 3C, is the same as calling Malkin a luxury 2C, yes it's a luxury to have a good player pushed down into a lesser role because of even better players but describing him like that is stupid.

No it is not stupid. For the third time now I'll use the explicit example of Jordan Staal who was a luxury 3C on a Penguins cup team, went on to be a 1C on a bubble Hurricanes team, and then a 2C on a very good Hurricanes team that went to the conference final. If other people think Danault is just an average 3C that's fine and they can be wrong if they want, but I said nothing of the sort. I don't think it should be read as an insult to Danault to say he's around as good as Jordan Staal.

I said "acceptable 1C, good 2C, and ultra luxury 3C". That is not the same thing as saying he's "just a 3C". That is the point of using luxury as an adjective. A BMW 3 series is a luxury sedan. That does not mean I am calling a BMW 3 series "just a sedan" like it's a 2002 Honda Civic.

 

[Sorinth]

No it is not stupid. For the third time now I'll use the explicit example of Jordan Staal who was a luxury 3C on a Penguins cup team, went on to be a 1C on a bubble Hurricanes team, and then a 2C on a very good Hurricanes team that went to the conference final. If other people think Danault is just an average 3C that's fine and they can be wrong if they want, but I said nothing of the sort. I don't think it should be read as an insult to Danault to say he's around as good as Jordan Staal.

I said "acceptable 1C, good 2C, and ultra luxury 3C". That is not the same thing as saying he's "just a 3C". That is the point of using luxury as an adjective. A BMW 3 series is a luxury sedan. That does not mean I am calling a BMW 3 series "just a sedan" like it's a 2002 Honda Civic.

Jordan Staal wasn't/isn't a luxury 3rd line center either. Pittsburgh had the luxury to use him as 3rd line center, just like they had the luxury of using Malkin as 2nd line center. But who on earth would call Malkin a luxury 2nd line center?

 

[MTL-rules]

Jordan Staal wasn't/isn't a luxury 3rd line center either. Pittsburgh had the luxury to use him as 3rd line center, just like they had the luxury of using Malkin as 2nd line center. But who on earth would call Malkin a luxury 2nd line center?

And Draisaitl and luxury 2nd line center ?

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Jordan Stall was way better in his prime than Danault will ever be and from the third line. He had a 50-point season in 62 games with Kennedy and Matt cooke, sometimes with Dupuis, Kunitz and Sullivan. Danault has a hard time doing that with Gallagher and Tatar.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Jordan Staal wasn't/isn't a luxury 3rd line center either. Pittsburgh had the luxury to use him as 3rd line center, just like they had the luxury of using Malkin as 2nd line center. But who on earth would call Malkin a luxury 2nd line center?

For the fourth time now I said (of both J.Staal and Danault), "acceptable 1C, good 2C, luxury 3C". There are lots of people claiming Danault is just an average 3rd liner playing above his head and being carried by better wingers. I am not one of them. I have no idea why you're responding to me as if I am.

And yes people talk about the luxury of having Malkin as a 2nd line center all the time. They don't specifically use the phrase "luxury 2C" but Crosby/Malkin, Stamkos/Point, Backstrom/Kuznetsov, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, etc. are/were constantly talked about in terms of it being an incredible luxury to have a player that good as your 2nd line center.

 

[ZUKI]

When people think Danault is better defensively than Gallagher... Thats why media hype is wrong.

So much misinformation and people are too stupid to think for themselves.

Says who ? "monsieur" calls "stupid" those who don't share is biased point of view about Danault . Funny
Gallagher has received a lot more considerations for the Selke than Danault yeah ...It would be great if you restrain yourself about talking of Danault . Hate is a sad thing .

 

[Mrb1p]

Says who ? "monsieur" calls "stupid" those who don't share is biased point of view about Danault . Funny
Gallagher has received a lot more considerations for the Selke than Danault yeah ...It would be great if you restrain yourself about talking of Danault . Hate is a sad thing .

Argument made: the media creates misinformation about Danault
Your answer: Danault got more media hype than Gallagher, thus hes better


????

 

[ZUKI]

Argument made: the media creates misinformation about Danault
Your answer: Danault got more media hype than Gallagher, thus hes better


????

Medias of all around the League creates misinformations about Danault . Proof ? i hate Danault so they are all wrong

 

[Mrb1p]

Medias of all around the League creates misinformations about Danault . Proof ? i hate Danault so they are all wrong

Its not exactly how finishing 7th in voting goes.

Also minsinformation can be spread from one single source.

 

[ZUKI]

Its not exactly how finishing 7th in voting goes.

Also minsinformation can be spread from one single source.

I know a "one single source" in this board that tries everything to misinform the other fans about Danault

 

[Mrb1p]

I know a "one single source" in this board that tries everything to misinform the other fans about Danault

The guy that said he was better than Bergeron?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Stone hands for NHL level, obviously he's way better than the average joe, but for the NHL it's not good.

I saw stone hand before in my life of hockey fan. Turner Stevenson had stone hands. Danault isn't that bad. Danault have hands like Doug Risebrough.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

To be fair pretty much the whole team does that and that's one of the main reason i'm not watching the games right now. We are throwing pucks at the net and hope for the best. It's really a team's strategy right now and one that can't work against the best teams on a regular basis specially not in playoffs and at the end of the season. It works relatively well because of the weak goltending in the league right now (we face backup and AHL quality level of goaltending for like half the games) but back in the Brodure, Roy and Hasek years we would not have scored 2 goals a game doing that. It just doesn't work against good defense and good goeltending but that's not the strength in the league right now. Still very boring to watch. Don't think it's on Danault looks more like a team's strategy to me.

I kindda agree because it's well explained and yes if it's a team strategy we can't expect to work very often. Danault make it work better than others. I can't say that's his way to make passes but he poke check the puck in corners and near around the net and with two fast guys with a quick release like Tatar and Gallagher it will work. Now if we apply this strategy to other trios, good luck.
This team isn't very well coached. The assistants are ok but the whole team have to be revisited and repaired, from the draft to the coaching, except Bouchard in Laval. The roster sucks. We need quality ufa signing next summer.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Danault's time on ice and how it ranks among NHL centers:

Total: 18:49/GP. Ranked #33
Even strenght: 14:48/GP. Ranked #36
Powerplay: 1:32/GP. Ranked #105
Penalty kill: 2:29/GP. Ranked #13

He doesn't have to play Powerplay and he's rarely there.
Beside that stat the rest of his stats place him among the best second centers.

 

[Sorinth]

For the fourth time now I said (of both J.Staal and Danault), "acceptable 1C, good 2C, luxury 3C". There are lots of people claiming Danault is just an average 3rd liner playing above his head and being carried by better wingers. I am not one of them. I have no idea why you're responding to me as if I am.

And yes people talk about the luxury of having Malkin as a 2nd line center all the time. They don't specifically use the phrase "luxury 2C" but Crosby/Malkin, Stamkos/Point, Backstrom/Kuznetsov, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, etc. are/were constantly talked about in terms of it being an incredible luxury to have a player that good as your 2nd line center.

They don't use that phrase because there's a difference between the luxury of having a player in a lesser role because of better players ahead of him and that player being a luxury type player.

 

[ZUKI]

The guy that said he was better than Bergeron?

You mean the guy that put a link to someone else just comparing the numbers of both of them. Give up dude

 

[gillyguzzler]

Keep dreaming, Danault will stay with Tatar and Gally nothing will change.

Suzuki may struggle, but it will be blamed on the "sophomore slump" and not the fact that we have no wingers to play with him.

Kotkaniemi will probably play with Armia and Lehky and some Habs fans will shit on him, because he can't score 45 points from the 3rd line with scrubs, meanwhile they praise our so-called #1C, who have a hard time getting 50 points with our best wingers.

Domi may be traded, but it will be a mistake, I would trade Drouin before him.

What am I dreaming about? I asked a question...

 

[BaseballCoach]

Kotkaniemi will probably play with Armia and Lehky and some Habs fans will shit on him, because he can't score 45 points from the 3rd line with scrubs, meanwhile they praise our so-called #1C, who have a hard time getting 50 points with our best wingers.

Danault got 53 points last year and is on pace for 57 this year. How does that become "has a hard time getting 50 points..."

I don't know if you are still a student, but say you were. If you had grade point averages of 3.0 last year and 3.2 this year, would it make sense for people to say "Kaperi has a hard time getting a 2.8 GPA"?