Player Discussion Phillip Danault - The Centermania Edition

[tintinetmilou]

This was an excellent post

But I had to highlight this section because of how bad that these are our BIG UFA's is lol

What is the problem with Danaut being a Strong UFA for Habs or any other team. He is a very good 2 way center. Selke potential. I rank him higer than Tatar and Douin. Much more valuable.

 

[blarneylad]

What is the problem with Danaut being a Strong UFA for Habs or any other team. He is a very good 2 way center. Selke potential. I rank him higer than Tatar and Douin. Much more valuable.

Not great either.

Man we are stacked with superstars! Danault is cream of the crop

 

[Sorinth]

It's ironic that for all the talk of how Danault only produces because he plays with great players, you have a guy like Kovalchuk who was terrible with LA, came to MTL played with Danault and produced something like 9 points in 11 games, then was moved to Suzuki/Domi and had something like 3 points in 12 games and 0 points in 2 games for Washington.

You have a guy like Tatar who was a 45 point player for most of his career who then crashed and burned in Vegas, comes to MTL and puts up back to back career highs alongside Danault. Gallagher who plays great with everyone had a career high in goals last year, and yet there are people claiming Danault is somehow holding his wingers back. The results speak for themselves, if he fails the eye test for you then it looks like the problem is your eyes and not Danault.

 

[habdynasty]

Danault is the best french player in the league.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

It's ironic that for all the talk of how Danault only produces because he plays with great players, you have a guy like Kovalchuk who was terrible with LA, came to MTL played with Danault and produced something like 9 points in 11 games, then was moved to Suzuki/Domi and had something like 3 points in 12 games and 0 points in 2 games for Washington.

You have a guy like Tatar who was a 45 point player for most of his career who then crashed and burned in Vegas, comes to MTL and puts up back to back career highs alongside Danault. Gallagher who plays great with everyone had a career high in goals last year, and yet there are people claiming Danault is somehow holding his wingers back. The results speak for themselves, if he fails the eye test for you then it looks like the problem is your eyes and not Danault.

Such a great player, we should try him with Armia and Lehky, he will probably turn them into 55-point players. It's not a hard task, he turned Tatar, the 45-point player, into a 60-point producer last year and now into a 72-point player.

Then the Habs will have a great 55-point line Armia-Danault-Lehky.

Tatar-Suzuki/Domi-Gally
Xavier-Suzuki/Domi-Byron
Armia-Danault-Lehky

Or maybe you are too afraid that without the great Danault, Tatar and Gally regress into 45-point players, especially Tatar.

 

[Sorinth]

Such a great player, we should try him with Armia and Lehky, he will probably turn them into 55-point players. It's not a hard task, he turned Tatar, the 45-point player, into a 60-point producer last year and now into a 72-point player.

Then the Habs will have a great 55-point line Armia-Danault-Lehky.

Tatar-Suzuki/Domi-Gally
Xavier-Suzuki/Domi-Byron
Armia-Danault-Lehky

Or maybe you are too afraid that without the great Danault, Tatar and Gally regress into 45-point players, especially Tatar.

You seem to have missed the point of my post.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

You seem to have missed the point of my post.

"It's ironic that for all the talk of how Danault only produces because he plays with great players..."

Really ?

Your point was that Danault does not need great players to produce, no ? So my suggestion was to put him with Armia and Lehky.

You clearly implied that Tatar the 45-point player became the player he is today, because he's playing with Danault.

 

[cphabs]

Ya ok...he is much more than a defensive player.

He’s our 1st line center! Instead of Drouin! LMAO!
Seriously, we are f***ed until we figure out where our priorities are.

 

[Sorinth]

"It's ironic that for all the talk of how Danault only produces because he plays with great players..."

Really ?

Your point was that Danault does not need great players to produce, no ? So my suggestion was to put him with Armia and Lehky.

You clearly implied that Tatar the 45-point player became the player he is today, because he's playing with Danault.

Do you not see the irony?

Apart from Gallagher these supposed great players have been average or struggled when not with Danault. Even if that's just a giant coincidence it's still ironic. I never claimed their producing with Danault isn't only because of Danault. It's also because Gallagher is pretty good at getting the best out of his linemates, it's also because playing on the top line is good for anyone's stats, and yes it's partly because Danault is actually good at helping others produce even if people like you don't understand why.

Out of curiosity now that Kovalchuk isn't stuck carrying Danault, are you expecting his ppg numbers to go up compared to his time with Danault? If we trade Tatar at the draft and he's no longer stuck with Danault, is he going to continue to set career highs?

 

[cphabs]

Not great either.

Man we are stacked with superstars! Danault is cream of the crop

Thank you!

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Do you not see the irony?

Apart from Gallagher these supposed great players have been average or struggled when not with Danault. Even if that's just a giant coincidence it's still ironic. I never claimed their producing with Danault isn't only because of Danault. It's also because Gallagher is pretty good at getting the best out of his linemates, it's also because playing on the top line is good for anyone's stats, and yes it's partly because Danault is actually good at helping others produce even if people like you don't understand why.

Out of curiosity now that Kovalchuk isn't stuck carrying Danault, are you expecting his ppg numbers to go up compared to his time with Danault? If we trade Tatar at the draft and he's no longer stuck with Danault, is he going to continue to set career highs?

Tatar played almost exclusively with Danault since he's with the Habs, how can you say that he struggled without him ?

Kovalchuk started his season with 8 points in 11 games with the Kings, playing with worse players than Danault and Tatar... Tatar will probably continue to produce, I can see him getting more points, especially if he plays with a better centre than Danault, which is not that hard in a playoff team.

 

[Sorinth]

Tatar played almost exclusively with Danault since he's with the Habs, how can you say that he struggled without him ?

Kovalchuk started his season with 8 points in 11 games with the Kings, playing with worse players than Danault and Tatar... Tatar will probably continue to produce, I can see him getting more points, especially if he plays with a better centre than Danault, which is not that hard in a playoff team.

Do Tatar's season's before MTL not count? He played with guys like Zetterberg and Larkin, yet rarely came close to his numbers in MTL. So it's hard to see how Danault is holding him back, is he really an 80 point winger but was held back in Detroit too? How could he fall so far so fast in Vegas if he's really a ppg player?

When Kovalchuk was put on a line with a better center his scoring dried up. Seems odd don't you think?

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Do Tatar's season's before MTL not count? He played with guys like Zetterberg and Larkin, yet rarely came close to his numbers in MTL. So it's hard to see how Danault is holding him back, is he really an 80 point winger but was held back in Detroit too? How could he fall so far so fast in Vegas if he's really a ppg player?

When Kovalchuk was put on a line with a better center his scoring dried up. Seems odd don't you think?

Where are you going with the Kovalchuk thing ? When you say "When Kovalchuk was put on a line with a better center his scoring dried up. Seems odd don't you think". You mean that Danault is better than Suzuki offensively ? Just to be sure.

Just like Domi last year, Tatar is having a career year. How ? Why ? I don't know. But it's certainly not because of Danault. Tatar is not a PPG player, but with a better centre than Danault, he will produce more than his 55-60 points he does with us.

When I watch Danault, I see a guy who can't score goals, can't make great passes on a regular basis, a guy with hands of stone. I can't help thinking what Tatar and Gallagher can do with a good/great centre. That's why I think he's dragging back his line offensively.

 

[Sorinth]

Where are you going with the Kovalchuk thing ? When you say "When Kovalchuk was put on a line with a better center his scoring dried up. Seems odd don't you think". You mean that Danault is better than Suzuki offensively ? Just to be sure.

Just like Domi last year, Tatar is having a career year. How ? Why ? I don't know. But it's certainly not because of Danault. Tatar is not a PPG player, but with a better centre than Danault, he will produce more than his 55-60 points he does with us.

Suzuki is the better offensive player.

Tatar isn't just having a career year, he's having back to back career years, his production with us isn't 55-60 points, pro-rated his production equates to a 65 point pace. Before us his career pace was 45, and somehow you think that Danault is weighing him down. Were Zetterberg and Larkin holding him back too?

I get that you can't explain how a player can increase his production by almost 45%, that was what my original post alluded too. You can't explain a massive production boost but are 100% confident it has nothing to do with Danault. Maybe if you can't explain it then maybe you shouldn't be so confident Danault isn't partly responsible.

When I watch Danault, I see a guy who can't score goals, can't make great passes on a regular basis, a guy with hands of stone. I can't help thinking what Tatar and Gallagher can do with a good/great centre. That's why I think he's dragging back his line offensively.

Exactly why I said maybe there is something with people's eye test. There is clearly something you are missing while watching him play because if all that was true then it makes no sense for Tatar to massively increase his production, it makes no sense that Kovalchuk became cold the moment he mvoed away from Danault, it makes no sense that Gallagher's production has been virtually unaffected by having such a poor center.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Suzuki is the better offensive player.

Tatar isn't just having a career year, he's having back to back career years, his production with us isn't 55-60 points, pro-rated his production equates to a 65 point pace. Before us his career pace was 45, and somehow you think that Danault is weighing him down. Were Zetterberg and Larkin holding him back too?

At 23 years old, Tatar had 56-point season, so I think he's a 55-60 points player. I meant that this year seems like a fluke compared to last year, do you really think Tatar is a 70-point player ?

I get that you can't explain how a player can increase his production by almost 45%, that was what my original post alluded too. You can't explain a massive production boost but are 100% confident it has nothing to do with Danault. Maybe if you can't explain it then maybe you shouldn't be so confident Danault isn't partly responsible.

I can't explain it, because I did not watch him when he played for the Wings. Maybe he needed a change of scenery, maybe he improved... What is your explanation for that ?

Exactly why I said maybe there is something with people's eye test. There is clearly something you are missing while watching him play because if all that was true

What is not true ? The fact that he can't score goals ? The fact that he has stone hands ? The fact that he rarely makes great passes ? All this is true.

then it makes no sense for Tatar to massively increase his production, it makes no sense that Kovalchuk became cold the moment he mvoed away from Danault, it makes no sense that Gallagher's production has been virtually unaffected by having such a poor center.

Pacioretty played with a 40-point centre(Danault) in 2016-2017 and still managed to get 67 points, or maybe you think that Danault did not drag Pacioretty back... Some players produce despite their centre, that's the case for Gally and it was the case for Pacioretty.

Kovalchuk started his season with 8 points in 11 games with L.A, it was most likely a coincidence.

I mean it's more logical than thinking that Danault turned Tatar into a 70-point player.

 

[Sorinth]

At 23 years old, Tatar had 56-point season, so I think he's a 55-60 points player. I meant that this year seems like a fluke compared to last year, do you really think Tatar is a 70-point player ?

Was Plekanec considered a 70 point player during his time with us? Was Gionta considered a 90 point player because he managed 89 points that one year? Or do all those other years matter more?

You tell me whether Tatar is a 70 point player, you're the one claiming Danault is holding him back. If Tatar is a 60 point player with an offensive anchor like Danault, what is his production going to be like with a real #1 center, or since you believe Danault is actually just a 3rd line center, what would Tatar produce with a 2nd line center? If it's not 70+ points then you're claiming the difference between playing with a real #1 center and 3rd liner/offensive anchor is less then 10 points?

Pacioretty played with a 40-point centre(Danault) in 2016-2017 and still managed to get 67 points, or maybe you think that Danault did not drag Pacioretty back... Some players produce despite their centre, that's the case for Gally and it was the case for Pacioretty.

Kovalchuk started his season with 8 points in 11 games with L.A, it was most likely a coincidence.

I mean it's more logical than thinking that Danault turned Tatar into a 70-point player.

Pacioretty has a pace of 63 points since joining Vegas. And yeah guys like Pacioretty and Gallagher have shown the ability to produce no matter who they play with.

It's a coincidence Kovalchuk produced, it's a coincidence Tatar had back to back career years, it's a coincidence that Gallagher set a career high in goals. There seem to be quite a lot of coincidences when it comes to Danault.

I can't explain it, because I did not watch him when he played for the Wings. Maybe he needed a change of scenery, maybe he improved... What is your explanation for that ?



What is not true ? The fact that he can't score goals ? The fact that he has stone hands ? The fact that he rarely makes great passes ? All this is true.

I've explained it in detail in earlier Danault threads. The short of it is I think Danault is very skilled at being in the right place at the right time. That allows him to make simple plays that don't stand out but help create turnovers which turn into scoring chances. That makes it so that his wingers can be their best selves simply because they are on the attack more often and often times in dangerous situations because turnovers are especially dangerous. So no I don't think Danault can magically turn grinders into top-6 players like Crosby can, he simply gets the best out of his wingers by doing the little things.

 

[blarneylad]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Kovalchuk start playing on a line other than Danaults. And came out hot with 3-4 points in his first 3-4 games before switching lines to Danault?

Kovy came in hot, Gallagher got hurt and Kovy made immediate jump after that and remained hot. Least how I recall it

Edit:

Ya so game one started on line with Kotkaniemi assisted on Chiarot goal with Tatar
Game 2 two assists with Suzuki and Domi

Game 4 ot winner had zero to do with Danault fwiw

Wasn’t until game 6 playing with Danault that he assisted on a Danault goal.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Was Plekanec considered a 70 point player during his time with us? Was Gionta considered a 90 point player because he managed 89 points that one year? Or do all those other years matter more?

You tell me whether Tatar is a 70 point player, you're the one claiming Danault is holding him back. If Tatar is a 60 point player with an offensive anchor like Danault, what is his production going to be like with a real #1 center, or since you believe Danault is actually just a 3rd line center, what would Tatar produce with a 2nd line center? If it's not 70+ points then you're claiming the difference between playing with a real #1 center and 3rd liner/offensive anchor is less then 10 points?

Yes, Danault is a similar player to Eller, who is a great 3rd liner.

If we replace Danault with Mackinnon, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, the line will produce better numbers offensively. I don't know how many more points Tatar and Gally would get, but I know that they won't need to work as hard as with Danault to get offensive opportunities, this will allow them to have more energy to do other things, like defending. #1C are mostly possession centre and they have the ability to find passing lanes that Danault can't find. They are also less predictable than Danault, they can protect the puck well, can keep the puck in tight space thanks to their great hands, they can score goals, they have the ability to attract the opponents toward them... If you think otherwise, explain your point.

What are you advocating here ? To keep Danault, because the improvement is not worth it ? Or that Danault is a #1C ? Or that the line won't improve, because Tatar-Danault-Gally have chemistry ?

has a pace of 63 points since joining Vegas. And yeah guys like Pacioretty and Gallagher have shown the ability to produce no matter who they play with.

It's a coincidence Kovalchuk produced, it's a coincidence Tatar had back to back career years, it's a coincidence that Gallagher set a career high in goals. There seem to be quite a lot of coincidences when it comes to Danault.

Kovalchuk started the season with L.A and had 8 points in 11 games mostly with scrubs. He does not need Danault to produce.

Gallagher was on pace for 28 goals in his rookie year with a young Eller, in 2015-2016 he was at the same pace as he's today. Gallagher is a 30-goal scorer without Danault, stop acting like he's scoring 30+ goals because of Danault.

I've explained it in detail in earlier Danault threads. The short of it is I think Danault is very skilled at being in the right place at the right time. That allows him to make simple plays that don't stand out but help create turnovers which turn into scoring chances. That makes it so that his wingers can be their best selves simply because they are on the attack more often and often times in dangerous situations because turnovers are especially dangerous. So no I don't think Danault can magically turn grinders into top-6 players like Crosby can, he simply gets the best out of his wingers by doing the little things.

Danault's takeaway stat is similar to Domi and Suzuki.

 

[Doc McKenna]

It's ironic that for all the talk of how Danault only produces because he plays with great players, you have a guy like Kovalchuk who was terrible with LA, came to MTL played with Danault and produced something like 9 points in 11 games, then was moved to Suzuki/Domi and had something like 3 points in 12 games and 0 points in 2 games for Washington.

You have a guy like Tatar who was a 45 point player for most of his career who then crashed and burned in Vegas, comes to MTL and puts up back to back career highs alongside Danault. Gallagher who plays great with everyone had a career high in goals last year, and yet there are people claiming Danault is somehow holding his wingers back. The results speak for themselves, if he fails the eye test for you then it looks like the problem is your eyes and not Danault.

Tatar was a superstar on detroit don't kid yourself. He isn't even on the level now that he was then. Many Detroit fans had him untouchable and in the same echelon as zederburg. Of course fans are homers-just like some are towards Phil, but Tatar was a very good talent not just a 45 point player. The difference is he is passing more now. He scored 29 goals in his third season.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Danault is elite.

 

[blarneylad]

Yes, Danault is a similar player to Eller, who is a great 3rd liner.

Gallagher was on pace for 28 goals in his rookie year with a young Eller, in 2015-2016 he was at the same pace as he's today. Gallagher is a 30-goal scorer without Danault, stop acting like he's scoring 30+ goals because of Danault.

Danault's takeaway stat is similar to Domi and Suzuki.

Danault is benefiting far more individualy by playing with Tatar and Gallagher than they are playing with him.

He is a good player and I think when I attack him people see it as an attack on one of the better players on the team. Which he is.

But that is exactly the problem. I am not attacking him for being him, I am pointing him out as more of a indication at how poorly this team is constructed. To have him as your most mins top line center is very indicative of the position this team currently finds itself sitting in

 

[Deebs]

Tatar was a superstar on detroit don't kid yourself. He isn't even on the level now that he was then. Many Detroit fans had him untouchable and in the same echelon as zederburg. Of course fans are homers-just like some are towards Phil, but Tatar was a very good talent not just a 45 point player. The difference is he is passing more now. He scored 29 goals in his third season.

Tatar is a better player now than he was in Detroit. Plays a much more complete game.

 

[Fixxer]

Tatar is a better player now than he was in Detroit. Plays a much more complete game.

He got to play with Datsyuk in Detroit, as opposed to Montreal, where he is the main offensive force this year and was having a career year last season too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Tatar is a better player now than he was in Detroit. Plays a much more complete game.

How can it be that players improve in their twenties yet Kotkaniemi is already a bust?

 

[Help]

To those who believed Danault (and his capable linemates of Gallagher and Tatar) couldn't continue to dominate opponents' top lines by every single discernible metric for a second year in a row: Ha ha!