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Other Sports: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Vegas, Baby! (2023 Regular Season)

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Bigkarl said:
I feel like there was a time that a 45 yard fiield goal was a coin toss. Now it seems like every kicker in the league is automatic from anything under 55 yards.
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As more teams go for it on 4th down closer to the end zone, I think leg power is now preferred over accuracy. A kicker who gives you a good shot at a 55-60 yard field goal is now the way to go it seems
 
Henry Miller said:
As more teams go for it on 4th down closer to the end zone, I think leg power is now preferred over accuracy. A kicker who gives you a good shot at a 55-60 yard field goal is now the way to go it seems
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Kickers just got a lot better overall, whether it be accuracy or distance. Maybe it is fields better maintained, more tailored practicing, rule changes making it harder to block, whatever.

From the start of the NFL thru the 1989 season there were *3* kickers who ever had a season with 90% or better accuracy. Eddie Murray did it three times. The other two kickers were Mark Moseley and Jan Stenerud.

From the 1990 season thru the 1999 season. There were 14 kickers who had a 90% or better season including two who had perfect seasons of 100%.

I think some of that is just starting at HS and college. I feel like you have kickers from a younger age actually practicing to be kickers and not just do it as a 'side-gig'. You have kicker clinics and stuff for youth players.

in the 70s or 80s you had college coaches just grabbing someone from a soccer team. I do think leg strength is looked at much more importantly in 'developing kickers' than accuracy.

It's sort of like baseball pitchers. pitching coaches think they can help a guy with a great arm throw strikes, but trying to get a guy who throws 85 mph with great accuracy to add 7-10mph to their fastball probably isn't going to happen. If a kicker has a very strong leg, but isn't as accurate the thought is they can refine and get that accuracy up... But a kicker who is super accurate, but maxes out around 45 isn't viewed as favorably anymore.
 
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Flybynite said:
Kickers just got a lot better overall, whether it be accuracy or distance. Maybe it is fields better maintained, more tailored practicing, rule changes making it harder to block, whatever.

From the start of the NFL thru the 1989 season there were *3* kickers who ever had a season with 90% or better accuracy. Eddie Murray did it three times. The other two kickers were Mark Moseley and Jan Stenerud.

From the 1990 season thru the 1999 season. There were 14 kickers who had a 90% or better season including two who had perfect seasons of 100%.

I think some of that is just starting at HS and college. I feel like you have kickers from a younger age actually practicing to be kickers and not just do it as a 'side-gig'. You have kicker clinics and stuff for youth players.

in the 70s or 80s you had college coaches just grabbing someone from a soccer team. I do think leg strength is looked at much more importantly in 'developing kickers' than accuracy.

It's sort of like baseball pitchers. pitching coaches think they can help a guy with a great arm throw strikes, but trying to get a guy who throws 85 mph with great accuracy to add 7-10mph to their fastball probably isn't going to happen. If a kicker has a very strong leg, but isn't as accurate the thought is they can refine and get that accuracy up... But a kicker who is super accurate, but maxes out around 45 isn't viewed as favorably anymore.
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Probably true

As a crazy hypothetical regarding kickers/punters, I wonder where a punter would be drafted if he could pin the other team inside the 5 yard line every time, whether kicking from the 50 or the back of his own end zone.
 
Ok, this one isn't going to be popular. I've seen all the talk about how simple and predictable they are on offense. They were last year too. It's a ridiculous oversimplification of what's happening. Criticize Johnson for not evolving the offense whatsoever and I'm completely on board. But tell me he's walked it backward schematically and I just don't see it. NFL coaches eventually figure everything out.



Desai isn't great, but he's fine. I have no major problems with him outside of being incredibly disappointed with how often they rotate their Safeties. That was what I thought a true Fangio disciple would bring. I also think the way NFL offense is trending right now at the high end is antithetical to the way Howie likes to build defenses.

First, let's talk about Byard because he's a good example of what's happening all over the back 7. He got significantly slower from even earlier this year. He's some combination of unhealthy and cooked, but I have no way of knowing how to slice the pie. That does happen with DBs where they reach a physical floor and it's catastrophically over.

Their coverage wasn't bad at all. I know how crazy this sounds, but we can back it up by looking at things like how many tight window throws Dak had to make. This was sometime in the 4Q:



He was phenomenal. To a degree, they did just get beaten by excellent QB play. Dak's strengths have always lined up incredibly well against what the Eagles try to do. But it's also that almost all of their back 7 is slow and can't tackle. That's why they get killed in YAC. Having some guys who basically get by on smarts is great. They can be excellent value. There is a point at which they stop stacking. Sydney Brown is a rookie who always needed to be reined in over time, so let's set him aside for now. Is anyone else fast? There's Ringo, but he doesn't play. The only other player in the back 7 I'm sure is a good tackler is Zach Cunningham. That's why it feels like he flashes. It sticks out.

So why did I preface this with Howie's approach to defense? What the high end offensive minds in the NFL do more and more is neutralize your pass rush. They currently have the second lowest pass rush win rate on 3rd down despite spending the GDP of Germany in dollars and assets on their DL. I'm just not sure loading up the DL to the gills and telling them to make 3rd Down work an beat the best teams anymore.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
Ok, this one isn't going to be popular. I've seen all the talk about how simple and predictable they are on offense. They were last year too. It's a ridiculous oversimplification of what's happening. Criticize Johnson for not evolving the offense whatsoever and I'm completely on board. But tell me he's walked it backward schematically and I just don't see it. NFL coaches eventually figure everything out.



Desai isn't great, but he's fine. I have no major problems with him outside of being incredibly disappointed with how often they rotate their Safeties. That was what I thought a true Fangio disciple would bring. I also think the way NFL offense is trending right now at the high end is antithetical to the way Howie likes to build defenses.

First, let's talk about Byard because he's a good example of what's happening all over the back 7. He got significantly slower from even earlier this year. He's some combination of unhealthy and cooked, but I have no way of knowing how to slice the pie. That does happen with DBs where they reach a physical floor and it's catastrophically over.

Their coverage wasn't bad at all. I know how crazy this sounds, but we can back it up by looking at things like how many tight window throws Dak had to make. This was sometime in the 4Q:



He was phenomenal. To a degree, they did just get beaten by excellent QB play. Dak's strengths have always lined up incredibly well against what the Eagles try to do. But it's also that almost all of their back 7 is slow and can't tackle. That's why they get killed in YAC. Having some guys who basically get by on smarts is great. They can be excellent value. There is a point at which they stop stacking. Sydney Brown is a rookie who always needed to be reined in over time, so let's set him aside for now. Is anyone else fast? There's Ringo, but he doesn't play. The only other player in the back 7 I'm sure is a good tackler is Zach Cunningham. That's why it feels like he flashes. It sticks out.

So why did I preface this with Howie's approach to defense? What the high end offensive minds in the NFL do more and more is neutralize your pass rush. They currently have the second lowest pass rush win rate on 3rd down despite spending the GDP of Germany in dollars and assets on their DL. I'm just not sure loading up the DL to the gills and telling them to make 3rd Down work an beat the best teams anymore.
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Always measured and logical response. Maybe Howie actually drafts back 7 high in the draft. Or he just doubles down more in the trenches.


Also screw you I want pie now.
 
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Chinatown88 said:
Always measured and logical response. Maybe Howie actually drafts back 7 high in the draft. Or he just doubles down more in the trenches.


Also screw you I want pie now.
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He goes for the same positions high in the draft. IOL, RB or corner will be round 2. Round 1 is receiver, tackle, or front seven.
 
JojoTheWhale said:
Ok, this one isn't going to be popular. I've seen all the talk about how simple and predictable they are on offense. They were last year too. It's a ridiculous oversimplification of what's happening. Criticize Johnson for not evolving the offense whatsoever and I'm completely on board. But tell me he's walked it backward schematically and I just don't see it. NFL coaches eventually figure everything out.



Desai isn't great, but he's fine. I have no major problems with him outside of being incredibly disappointed with how often they rotate their Safeties. That was what I thought a true Fangio disciple would bring. I also think the way NFL offense is trending right now at the high end is antithetical to the way Howie likes to build defenses.

First, let's talk about Byard because he's a good example of what's happening all over the back 7. He got significantly slower from even earlier this year. He's some combination of unhealthy and cooked, but I have no way of knowing how to slice the pie. That does happen with DBs where they reach a physical floor and it's catastrophically over.

Their coverage wasn't bad at all. I know how crazy this sounds, but we can back it up by looking at things like how many tight window throws Dak had to make. This was sometime in the 4Q:



He was phenomenal. To a degree, they did just get beaten by excellent QB play. Dak's strengths have always lined up incredibly well against what the Eagles try to do. But it's also that almost all of their back 7 is slow and can't tackle. That's why they get killed in YAC. Having some guys who basically get by on smarts is great. They can be excellent value. There is a point at which they stop stacking. Sydney Brown is a rookie who always needed to be reined in over time, so let's set him aside for now. Is anyone else fast? There's Ringo, but he doesn't play. The only other player in the back 7 I'm sure is a good tackler is Zach Cunningham. That's why it feels like he flashes. It sticks out.

So why did I preface this with Howie's approach to defense? What the high end offensive minds in the NFL do more and more is neutralize your pass rush. They currently have the second lowest pass rush win rate on 3rd down despite spending the GDP of Germany in dollars and assets on their DL. I'm just not sure loading up the DL to the gills and telling them to make 3rd Down work an beat the best teams anymore.
Click to expand...


I was thinking about this last night. When I asked what do the Eagles actually do well right now, my first thought was that they win in the trenches. As much credit as Howie has gotten for building from the trenches out, because that is supposed to be the "right" way to build, it sure doesn't seem like the production from the dline matches the $$$ and draft capital spent there. Or at least it doesn't seem to contribute to wins they way you'd think.

I'm sure there's a few reasons why the run game has been less efficient and it's not just that the Oline got mediocre overnight. Getting those 12+ play, 7 minute drives to ice games last year was a part of their identity. It's not there anymore, and that makes Big Karl a sad Panda.
 
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Bigkarl said:
I'm sure there's a few reasons why the run game has been less efficient and it's not just that the Oline got mediocre overnight. Getting those 12+ play, 7 minute drives to ice games last year was a part of their identity. It's not there anymore, and that makes Big Karl a sad Panda.
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Exactly! Those drives were what defined this offense.

The biggest one is Hurts. He never gets enough credit for how much of their running game was based on his ability to be a top flight runner. Yes, the OL matters a ton and they still have to block it up. But schematically, all of these runs out of Shotgun only work because of Hurts' presence. If he doesn't threaten the conflict defender, the plays die. That's what's happening this year. He's one of the worst QBs in football on designed runs this season. That's clearly not indicative of his lack of talent.

I'd just like to be clear that I'm not doing the David Carr can't read a defense horseshit. I'm complimenting him.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
The biggest one is Hurts. He never gets enough credit for how much of their running game was based on his ability to be a top flight runner. Yes, the OL matters a ton and they still have to block it up. But schematically, all of these runs out of Shotgun only work because of Hurts' presence. If he doesn't threaten the conflict defender, the plays die. That's what's happening this year. He's one of the worst QBs in football on designed runs this season. That's clearly not indicative of his lack of talent.
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Was it you or someone else who was saying one of the main things they need to be doing is run more screens?
 
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