Other Sports: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): Vegas, Baby! (2023 Regular Season)

[JojoTheWhale]

Meanwhile, despite growing pains, against respectable defenses, they're in the top ten in yards and scoring by the offense.

I pointed out at the time that Watson's performance was overrated, counting stats production.
I don't want Hurts to have huge counting stats, that usually means you're not winning games.

They’re sure as shit not winning games on Hurts’ back. It’s shitty QB play in a turbocharged offense.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I saw a movie trailer with Dua Lipa today and I thought of you.

Rocket.

Everyday I wonder if she will ever drop a new album.

Him?!

Bugs is my new favorite streamer. That dude is hilarious. Streams at psycho hours tho.

 

[GKJ]

This sounds familiar.

Although Gardner does hold on 90% of plays.

The thing though with this is that the official didn’t throw the flag until the ball was intercepted, for a foul that happened like 15 yards back upfield

 

[deadhead]

They’re sure as shit not winning games on Hurts’ back. It’s shitty QB play in a turbocharged offense.

Takes time to learn how to play pocket QB, Hurts is only in his 3rd year as a starter, and he's only 25 years old. I think the RO slowed his development as a pocket QB, but Johnson wants to develop him as such because it opens up more things for the offense.

In the long run, this should pay off.
In the short run, this team is good enough to live with his growing pains if they can just find another safety or get Brown healthy.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[DancingPanther]

Jalen Hurts is completely broken. I have no idea what happened. I don’t know who told him to avoid contact like this, but I can’t imagine he did it on his own.

He made a couple of nice throws on one read plays where he just looked and ripped it. The physical abilities are still there. His passes were reasonably accurate. The big problem from a passing standpoint is pocket presence. It’s always been his weakest attribute, but now we’re at sub-2021 levels. Luckily they’ve bought themselves some time to straighten this out by winning these games. But it has to get a lot better. Not a little. He’s both taking off way too early and also sometimes not moving at all. Baffling.

As far as the defense goes, I have no major problems with Desai. Their back 7 already wasn’t very good and then they got gutted by injuries. This is coverage players not holding up long enough for the excellent DL play to matter. It’s 2nd level players being HORRIFIC in Zone spacing. It’s Terrell Edmunds (@FatTugboatFlahr nailed this in real time) being completely and utterly useless. Bienemy set out to hunt Edmunds and Jobe. Great game plan from him and Howell executed it well. The current LBs make some splash plays and I understand the tendency to have that give you some comfort. Go look at the game as a whole and what you see is Halloween III levels of dopey horror. It’s overwhelmingly a talent issue.

Yesterday I mentioned he's not attacking space in "scrambling" sense. i.e. uncocking the arm and chewing up some yards. Last year at his best he was attacking the space in front of him and turning those potential/probable throw-it-away scenarios into modest (sometimes major) gains.

I was thinking more about it yesterday instead of being an actual human with real thoughts about things that matter. I have also realized he's not climbing vertically in the pocket anymore. It's a more nuanced way of attacking space, but climbing vertically in the pocket also creates space for both Hurts and his recievers. It causes DLinemen to alter their attack path and forces zone defenders to respect the threat of a scramble.

If I've learned anything since reading intelligent football posts on this board by you, China, and others, it's that this shit isn't Madden. It's not a chain of player locking animations. These are actual human beings on the field that make snap decisions. Sometimes those decisions are the wrong. Your job as a QB or a playcaller is to put players in a situation and GOAD THEM into making the wrong decision, which you exploit.

Hurts climbing the pocket might cause a safety to break 2 steps in to respect the run. That's all it takes to the be difference. None of this is happening. Defenders are being placed in straightforward positions watching Hurts panic and start running perpendicular to the sidelines. There's no exploitation happening.

I'm another installment of this isn't Madden, play calling isn't just picking your favorite play and letting Davonte run past a 71 overall CB. It's the same idea: get players to make the wrong decision. This isn't happening. Hurts' issues and the playcalling problem seem to be symptoms of the same disease, and the pathogen was recently hired

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Takes time to learn how to play pocket QB, Hurts is only in his 3rd year as a starter, and he's only 25 years old. I think the RO slowed his development as a pocket QB, but Johnson wants to develop him as such because it opens up more things for the offense.

In the long run, this should pay off.
In the short run, this team is good enough to live with his growing pains if they can just find another safety or get Brown healthy.

ONLY IN HIS 3RD YEAR AS A STARTER. DEADY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. YOU WON’T GIVE HOCKEY PROSPECTS TWO WEEKS.

 

[Chinatown88]

ONLY IN HIS 3RD YEAR AS A STARTER. DEADY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. YOU WON’T GIVE HOCKEY PROSPECTS TWO WEEKS.

But he gives coaches 12398732478943297832798324798234890432 games.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It’s Terrell Edmunds (@FatTugboatFlahr nailed this in real time) being completely and utterly useless.

We are enemies now

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Yesterday I mentioned he's not attacking space in "scrambling" sense. i.e. uncocking the arm and chewing up some yards. Last year at his best he was attacking the space in front of him and turning those potential/probable throw-it-away scenarios into modest (sometimes major) gains.

I was thinking more about it yesterday instead of being an actual human with real thoughts about things that matter. I have also realized he's not climbing vertically in the pocket anymore. It's a more nuanced way of attacking space, but climbing vertically in the pocket also creates space for both Hurts and his recievers. It causes DLinemen to alter their attack path and forces zone defenders to respect the threat of a scramble.

If I've learned anything since reading intelligent football posts on this board by you, China, and others, it's that this shit isn't Madden. It's not a chain of player locking animations. These are actual human beings on the field that make snap decisions. Sometimes those decisions are the wrong. Your job as a QB or a playcaller is to put players in a situation and GOAD THEM into making the wrong decision, which you exploit.

Hurts climbing the pocket might cause a safety to break 2 steps in to respect the run. That's all it takes to the be difference. None of this is happening. Defenders are being placed in straightforward positions watching Hurts panic and start running perpendicular to the sidelines. There's no exploitation happening.

I'm another installment of this isn't Madden, play calling isn't just picking your favorite play and letting Davonte run past a 71 overall CB. It's the same idea: get players to make the wrong decision. This isn't happening. Hurts' issues and the playcalling problem seem to be symptoms of the same disease, and the pathogen was recently hired

These are all wonderful observations.

He has NEVER manipulated the pocket well. There are no subtle movements. That doesn’t mean he’s bad. All players have negatives. He was able to succeed despite this because he could gain serious yardage when he inevitably bailed. His strengths made up for his weaknesses. That’s how 99.99% of successful players do it. If you take that away, there is no path to success without him becoming a completely different player.

You’ve noticed that he’s bailing straight out to the side. When he does this and he’s not running the way he used to, he’s turning himself into an outside of the pocket passer by design. Before the year started, this was my wish for Hurts:

Ok, it’s the start of Sicko season. What do we want to see happen this year? What are we worried about? What are we confident in that others aren’t?

I would like to see Hurts just get to roughly league average on non-scrambles outside of the pocket. They solved the MoF issue by getting AJ Brown. That’s the thing that will hold him back from sustaining high-end play, so that’s what I’ll be watching.

That concerned me so much because Hurts was not a top 32 QB by EPA/play when throwing outside of the pocket last year. I believe he was 34th or 35th. That’s not 2021. That’s getting MVP votes 2022 Hurts. He does not have that ability at an NFL level. Now that seems to be what he wants to do? Baffling. Utterly baffling.

 

[deadhead]

ONLY IN HIS 3RD YEAR AS A STARTER. DEADY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. YOU WON’T GIVE HOCKEY PROSPECTS TWO WEEKS.

I won't give Wilson two weeks at QB either, it's called "talent."
Hurts has the talent to learn to throw out of the pocket, it's not like he's been awful, just not as good as he should be.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Not sure what’s currently happening to the website, but the Edmunds slander is a beautiful thing to get the day started.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I won't give Wilson two weeks at QB either, it's called "talent."
Hurts has the talent to learn to throw out of the pocket, it's not like he's been awful, just not as good as he should be.

You would not notice a difference in overall effectiveness if you swapped 2023 Jalen Hurts out for Josh Dobbs. That’s where we are.

Believe in whatever players you want. Have faith that he’ll figure it out again, sure I get it. This is shit QB play. Pretending otherwise is not something I can take seriously or will waste my time discussing.

 

[Beef Invictus]

These are all wonderful observations.

He has NEVER manipulated the pocket well. There are no subtle movements. That doesn’t mean he’s bad. All players have negatives. He was able to succeed despite this because he could gain serious yardage when he inevitably bailed. His strengths made up for his weaknesses. That’s how 99.99% of successful players do it. If you take that away, there is no path to success without him becoming a completely different player.

You’ve noticed that he’s bailing straight out to the side. When he does this and he’s not running the way he used to, he’s turning himself into an outside of the pocket passer by design. Before the year started, this was my wish for Hurts:



That concerned me so much because Hurts was not a top 32 QB by EPA/play when throwing outside of the pocket last year. I believe he was 34th or 35th. That’s not 2021. That’s getting MVP votes 2022 Hurts. He does not have that ability at an NFL level. Now that seems to be what he wants to do? Baffling. Utterly baffling.

DC has shit-ass LBs being used badly by a shit-ass DC. Someone like Hurts scrambling and using that to assault them or get them off the pass coverage they're not good at to begin with should have been a nightmare for DC, as all mobile QBs are. I'm increasingly confused by what I've seen from Hurts this year. First he confused me by taking so many steps forward last year; now he confuses me for a huge chunk of it being walked back.

 

[deadhead]

I've been an Eagles fan for 5 decades now, I've seen my share of shit QB play.
Hurts ain't close to the bottom.
I remember AR turning McNabb, out of the read option in Syracuse, into a real WCO QB.
It can be done.

 

[Chinatown88]

@Hollywood Cannon

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

@Hollywood Cannon

That's the kind of player that I pray that people take in the top few picks.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I've been an Eagles fan for 5 decades now, I've seen my share of shit QB play.
Hurts ain't close to the bottom.
I remember AR turning McNabb, out of the read option in Syracuse, into a real WCO QB.
It can be done.

Who the hell is talking about the worst QBs to play for the franchise?

McNabb was a 22yo rookie on a terrible team. Hurts is on a team trying to contend that went to the bleeping Super Bowl last year in no small part because of his play. There’s no equivalence there whatsoever.

While we’re at it, late 90s Syracuse was not a RO team. They were a true option offense famous for popularizing the Freeze Option. That’s under center play.

See that step to the left the QB takes? That’s why it’s called Freeze. You’ll still see teams running this in college today, although it’s largely relegated to smaller schools. Someone like Joe Moorhead did occasionally use it at Oregon though.

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[deadhead]

You would not notice a difference in overall effectiveness if you swapped 2023 Jalen Hurts out for Josh Dobbs. That’s where we are.

Believe in whatever players you want. Have faith that he’ll figure it out again, sure I get it. This is shit QB play. Pretending otherwise is not something I can take seriously or will waste my time discussing.

We can only hope Hurts looks as good against the Cowboys as Dobbs.

 

[TB87]

These are all wonderful observations.

He has NEVER manipulated the pocket well. There are no subtle movements. That doesn’t mean he’s bad. All players have negatives. He was able to succeed despite this because he could gain serious yardage when he inevitably bailed. His strengths made up for his weaknesses. That’s how 99.99% of successful players do it. If you take that away, there is no path to success without him becoming a completely different player.

You’ve noticed that he’s bailing straight out to the side. When he does this and he’s not running the way he used to, he’s turning himself into an outside of the pocket passer by design. Before the year started, this was my wish for Hurts:



That concerned me so much because Hurts was not a top 32 QB by EPA/play when throwing outside of the pocket last year. I believe he was 34th or 35th. That’s not 2021. That’s getting MVP votes 2022 Hurts. He does not have that ability at an NFL level. Now that seems to be what he wants to do? Baffling. Utterly baffling.

Someone (from on high) is clearly neutering him. He has NEVER run with such hesitancy before. Even when there is open field in front of him. Picking up yardage running the ball when there’s no passing options and/or there is open field in front of him is a huge positive aspect of his game. I’d be completely flabbergasted if what we’re seeing is Hurts “sole” decision.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

DC has shit-ass LBs being used badly by a shit-ass DC. Someone like Hurts scrambling and using that to assault them or get them off the pass coverage they're not good at to begin with should have been a nightmare for DC, as all mobile QBs are. I'm increasingly confused by what I've seen from Hurts this year. First he confused me by taking so many steps forward last year; now he confuses me for a huge chunk of it being walked back.

I don't think people as a whole are very good at sussing out what parts of the whole are on QB play versus coaches in real time. It's too much to process and you're watching from a terrible camera angle.

When j go back and watch these games again and focus on him, the theme to me is that he's giving you exactly what the scheme does. So yes, sometimes the yardage is going to look good. Sometimes it won't because teams try to make him hand the ball off.

His average depth of target is shooting up this year. That's inarguably more difficult. But it's largely because the passing offense is feast or famine. I will always push back against the idea that he doesn't have the arm for deep balls. I think he throws a great 9 ball for example. He just has a tendency to get to them late and so it looks worse than the actual throw. I want him taking these 50-50 balls deep to AJB and DeVonta. The problem is that right now it's the only thing they have in the passing game that's not scheme. And it's not like they're asking him to find Backside Digs. These are largely simple reads.

It's a brutal, brutal watch. I do think Brian Johnson is showing signs of coming around. That's important.

 

[Kermit the Prog]

@Hollywood Cannon

Jesus Christ - it's FOUR games into the season. I'm not clowning, you, China. I'm clowning the Tweet.

Khalil Mack had six sacks yesterday. If he gets that many each game for the rest of the season (he had zero sacks in the first three games), he'll have 84 sAckS thIs YeARz!!1

 

[Chinatown88]

Jesus Christ - it's FOUR games into the season. I'm not clowning, you, China. I'm clowning the Tweet.

Khalil Mack had six sacks yesterday. If he gets that many each game for the rest of the season (he had zero sacks in the first three games), he'll have 84 sAckS thIs YeARz!!1

Nah we know. I'm just memeing the whole Boston Scott > CMC in fantasy.

 

[Striiker]

Rocket.

Everyday I wonder if she will ever drop a new album.

Bugs is my new favorite streamer. That dude is hilarious. Streams at psycho hours tho.

I don’t think I know who that is but I’ll check him out.