Proposal: PHI-PIT-WPG 3 way

[Riptide]

Wow that's a terrible trade for the jets, they lose Ehlers and a second for a slow overrated d men. I wouldn't even trade Ehlers for maatta and a second. Can't believe how many people are overrating maatta

You mean a slow overrated Dman that has an amazing contract and who by the age of 21 has a Stanley Cup ring and an Olympic Silver medal - both of which he played large parts in helping his team win? Yep sounds completely overrated!

 

[Riptide]

I just think we should upgrade from Sheary, rust and Kunitz in our top 6. And we have Pouliot to replace Maatta

Pouliot is not a safe bet to replace Maatta right now. Perhaps in a year or two, but it would be foolish to bet on DP playing 20 minutes a night next season - especially when we don't have to.

And no, this isn't a vote of confidence in Sheary or Kunitz, just that we can make do with them as long as the rest of the team overall is sound - which with Maatta and the rest of our depth, it is.

 

[major major]

One of the better 3 ways I've seen in terms of fair value, just a couple issues....

Doesn't make much sense for the Pens. Their D - while it got the job done - is pretty thin depth wise. Can't see them moving a top 4 guy without getting one back. They also don't have the cap space to acquire a guy who likely gets awarded 5 mil per in arbitration.

As good as I think Ehlers can become, I'm not sure his peak is much better than Schenn, if at all. Not sure why Philly would downgrade currently in the hopes that Ehlers becomes the better player. Is a 2nd and 3rd really worth that risk?

I think it makes sense for the Jets, but I'm sure you'll get your fair share of criticism from them because the love Ehlers.

Neutral fan here.

I agree with you except for the bit about Ehlers. Yeah, there's uncertainty about whether he'll be as good as Schenn, or better than Schenn. But it's actually likely that he will be the better player. When a guy does what Ehlers did at age 20, the normal career arc would suggest he'll be a 60+ pt winger. We haven't seen anything from Ehlers to suggest his totals to date over-represent his potential. The timing might not suit the Flyers though - they are not so deep at top six forward right now that they can afford to wait if Ehlers takes longer than anticipated to break through.

I personally don't think Maatta is the kind of D the Jets need. If he rehabs well and regains some speed, then absolutely. But that's the same reasoning for the Pens - if he doesn't improve he could be in an awkward spot for the Pens, but if he does he is exactly the kind of D the Pens need.

 

[Gump Hasek]

The Jets pass on this proposal and strongly suggest you don't call back.

 

[Riptide]

I personally don't think Maatta is the kind of D the Jets need. If he rehabs well and regains some speed, then absolutely. But that's the same reasoning for the Pens - if he doesn't improve he could be in an awkward spot for the Pens, but if he does he is exactly the kind of D the Pens need.

His speed was a lot better in the SJ series then it was in the WSH/TB series. He will never be a speedster, but if he keeps playing like he did vs SJ, he'll be fine and PIT fans will not have an issue with him.

 

[kylbaz]

How on earth is Ehlers the best player? He's the least proven. He might turn out to be the best, but that's not a certainty. He's certainly not the best now.

I know what you're saying. I've been suggesting Mathews for Thorburn and people laugh at me. I mean come on, Mathews may turn out to be better, but that's not a certainty.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

The Jets pass on this proposal and strongly suggest you don't call back.

Ehlers is not the best player in this deal. The jets have plenty of young wingers and you have to give to get, young top 4 LD on great contracts aren't cheap

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Wait, Schenn is worth Ehlers and 2nd and a 3rd? And why would Pittsburgh trade Maatta for Schenn? They don't have any room for Schenn up front.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I can't see philly trading Schenn to a division rival.

Also Ehlers is becoming a fan favorite in Winnipeg and had a good season as a rookie, it would be a mistake to trade Nikolaj Ehlers.

 

[ijuka]

Määttä is meh and overrated, wouldn't trade Ehlers for him even 1 for 1. Ehlers is very underrated over here, as is common for players of Jets.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Neutral fan here.

I agree with you except for the bit about Ehlers. Yeah, there's uncertainty about whether he'll be as good as Schenn, or better than Schenn. But it's actually likely that he will be the better player. When a guy does what Ehlers did at age 20, the normal career arc would suggest he'll be a 60+ pt winger. We haven't seen anything from Ehlers to suggest his totals to date over-represent his potential. The timing might not suit the Flyers though - they are not so deep at top six forward right now that they can afford to wait if Ehlers takes longer than anticipated to break through.

I personally don't think Maatta is the kind of D the Jets need. If he rehabs well and regains some speed, then absolutely. But that's the same reasoning for the Pens - if he doesn't improve he could be in an awkward spot for the Pens, but if he does he is exactly the kind of D the Pens need.

I have no horse in this race either (Oilers fan), and I'm also a big believer in the talent Ehlers possesses (was wowed by him in the Penticton rookie tournament, more so than Draisaitl, Gaudreau and Bennett), but "what he did this year" wasn't anything out of the norm for a player his age playing the role he did. He played top 6 pretty much the entire season. People like Sam Gagner have produced at an early age being placed in an offensive role. I'm not trying to suggest Ehlers career path follows Gagner or anything, just pointing out last season was nothing jaw dropping to cement him as a top line winger in the future. I do believe he'll get there though.

Maybe people forget that Schenn was one of the best prospects in hockey at a similar age, crushing it at the WJC. It doesn't always translate to immediate success. It's taken Schenn a while, but he has finally legitimized himself as a high end 2nd liner/capable 1st liner. Yet somehow Jets fans are already proclaiming Ehlers has surpassed him?

 

[Gump Hasek]

Ehlers is not the best player in this deal. The jets have plenty of young wingers and you have to give to get, young top 4 LD on great contracts aren't cheap

Josh Morrissey + Nikolaj Ehlers >>>>>> your trade proposal; no need exists for the Jets to even consider making such a trade, FYI.

The Jets will play Morrissey in an LHD spot next season and keep Ehlers, thanks.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

And we have Pouliot to replace Maatta

I'm sorry, but no. They play the same position and were drafted in the same round of the same draft...that's where their similarities end. Määttä is a defensive anchor who can keep up offensively; Pouliot is a potential PPQB who will need to be paired with someone like a Määttä to cover his defensive shortcomings.

The Pens forward depth isn't even that bad, it's just spread out. That's what happens when you have an elite second line moonlighting as a third line. Defense is the weakest link on the roster, and the one with the shallowest pool of talent to choose from as it stands...you don't ditch your 2nd or 3rd best defenseman for a forward upgrade that is completely superfluous. The NHL isn't a video game, you can't just have offensive players and a solid goalie and expect things to work out.

 

[Riptide]

Määttä is meh and overrated, wouldn't trade Ehlers for him even 1 for 1. Ehlers is very underrated over here, as is common for players of Jets.

That's okay, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Ehlers unless WPG was adding big time. But I love how Maatta is "meh and overrated" while Ehlers and all Jets are underrated. I'll be more than happy to keep my 21 yr old meh and overrated D with his Stanley Cup ring and Olympic Silver medal.

 

[JetsHomer]

That's okay, I wouldn't trade Maatta for Ehlers unless WPG was adding big time. But I love how Maatta is "meh and overrated" while Ehlers and all Jets are underrated. I'll be more than happy to keep my 21 yr old meh and overrated D with his Stanley Cup ring and Olympic Silver medal.

And we'll be more than happy to keep Ehlers! So may as well close this thread I guess

 

[Whileee]

I have no horse in this race either (Oilers fan), and I'm also a big believer in the talent Ehlers possesses (was wowed by him in the Penticton rookie tournament, more so than Draisaitl, Gaudreau and Bennett), but "what he did this year" wasn't anything out of the norm for a player his age playing the role he did. He played top 6 pretty much the entire season. People like Sam Gagner have produced at an early age being placed in an offensive role. I'm not trying to suggest Ehlers career path follows Gagner or anything, just pointing out last season was nothing jaw dropping to cement him as a top line winger in the future. I do believe he'll get there though.

Maybe people forget that Schenn was one of the best prospects in hockey at a similar age, crushing it at the WJC. It doesn't always translate to immediate success. It's taken Schenn a while, but he has finally legitimized himself as a high end 2nd liner/capable 1st liner. Yet somehow Jets fans are already proclaiming Ehlers has surpassed him?

Actually, Ehlers spent a good portion of the season with plugs. When he played in a top 6 role his production sky-rocketed. There was a very clear analysis linked on the Jets board. I'd take the time to find it if I thought it would sway opinions, but I think opinions are pretty set.

Suffice to say, Ehlers is viewed by Jets fans and management as a future star who is just 20. He won't be traded unless the return is huge.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Olli is not available, and most certainly not to the Flyers.

 

[Pongs21]

I've dug no hole, Ehlers may not be the best player at this moment, but holds the most value and will absolutely be the best player of the 3. Feel free to save this message and look back in a few years

 

[heretik27]

Ehlers was basically on pace for 60 points playing with Scheifele and one of Wheeler/Perreault last season. Playing two months with Burmistrov and Thorburn destroyed his production, but did help his defensive game somewhat. I think he can hit around 50 points with a full season next to Scheifele next year as a conservative projection. Brayden Schenn has only eclipsed that mark once as of last year and he'll be 25 going into next season. In no way shape or form do we trade Ehlers with his upside and add on top of it for another defenseman. We would sooner trade Tyler Myers once he's healthy for a LHD or Trouba if things went sour during contract negotiations.

 

[Jetsetter]

aahhh no thanks from the jets.

 

[Whileee]

Ehlers was basically on pace for 60 points playing with Scheifele and one of Wheeler/Perreault last season. Playing two months with Burmistrov and Thorburn destroyed his production, but did help his defensive game somewhat. I think he can hit around 50 points with a full season next to Scheifele next year as a conservative projection. Brayden Schenn has only eclipsed that mark once as of last year and he'll be 25 going into next season. In no way shape or form do we trade Ehlers with his upside and add on top of it for another defenseman. We would sooner trade Tyler Myers once he's healthy for a LHD or Trouba if things went sour during contract negotiations.

Ehlers' points/game as a 19 year old was only marginally less than Schenn's average between ages 20-24, despite playing for a large portion of the season with an offensively sluggish 3rd line.

Ehlers has much higher value than Schenn at this point in their respective careers.

 

[Luc Labelle]

I have no horse in this race either (Oilers fan), and I'm also a big believer in the talent Ehlers possesses (was wowed by him in the Penticton rookie tournament, more so than Draisaitl, Gaudreau and Bennett), but "what he did this year" wasn't anything out of the norm for a player his age playing the role he did. He played top 6 pretty much the entire season. People like Sam Gagner have produced at an early age being placed in an offensive role. I'm not trying to suggest Ehlers career path follows Gagner or anything, just pointing out last season was nothing jaw dropping to cement him as a top line winger in the future. I do believe he'll get there though.

Maybe people forget that Schenn was one of the best prospects in hockey at a similar age, crushing it at the WJC. It doesn't always translate to immediate success. It's taken Schenn a while, but he has finally legitimized himself as a high end 2nd liner/capable 1st liner. Yet somehow Jets fans are already proclaiming Ehlers has surpassed him?

It looks like you stopped paying attention to Ehlers after the Penticton tournament. Ehlers scored 8 points in his first NHL 10 games, then got demoted to the third line for 30 games to "learn" the defensive game where he only scored 5 points. Most of those 30 games featured Paul Maurice's consistent but inexplicable use of "Third line Jesus", Chris Thorburn. Many of those third line games also featured the world's most gifted puck handler with near zero offensive IQ Burmistrov. Freed from those two players who are known as the destination where pucks go to die, Ehlers then scored 10 points in the following 10 games when promoted to the 2nd line.

So the first 10 games Ehlers scored at a 65.6 point pace, and the final 32 games at a 64.06 pace. The 30 games spent with at least one, if not two of the world's worst offensive players saw him score at a 14 point pace despite making many spectacular plays.

I think avoiding Thorburn and / or Burmistrov this coming season, Ehlers scores a minimum of 60 points and I would put my money on him finishing at a 75 point pace. He is one of the fasted players in the NHL and he handles the puck and creates plays at top speed.

Back to the OP, this deal is the worst for both Pittsburgh and Winnipeg. I do think the Jets give up the best player. The fact Philadelphia gets 2 draft picks when they are giving up the oldest player with the least upside boggles the mind. BTW, I am a fan of both Maatta and Schenn.

 

[flyersfan018]

It looks like you stopped paying attention to Ehlers after the Penticton tournament. Ehlers scored 8 points in his first NHL 10 games, then got demoted to the third line for 30 games to "learn" the defensive game where he only scored 5 points. Most of those 30 games featured Paul Maurice's consistent but inexplicable use of "Third line Jesus", Chris Thorburn. Many of those third line games also featured the world's most gifted puck handler with near zero offensive IQ Burmistrov. Freed from those two players who are known as the destination where pucks go to die, Ehlers then scored 10 points in the following 10 games when promoted to the 2nd line.

So the first 10 games Ehlers scored at a 65.6 point pace, and the final 32 games at a 64.06 pace. The 30 games spent with at least one, if not two of the world's worst offensive players saw him score at a 14 point pace despite making many spectacular plays.

I think avoiding Thorburn and / or Burmistrov this coming season, Ehlers scores a minimum of 60 points and I would put my money on him finishing at a 75 point pace. He is one of the fasted players in the NHL and he handles the puck and creates plays at top speed.

Back to the OP, this deal is the worst for both Pittsburgh and Winnipeg. I do think the Jets give up the best player. The fact Philadelphia gets 2 draft picks when they are giving up the oldest player with the least upside boggles the mind. BTW, I am a fan of both Maata and Schenn.

Ehlers played mostly with Scheifele and Perrault though...

 

[Hunter368]

If the flyers and schenn can't reach a deal.

To Pitt:
B. Schenn

To Wpg:
O. Maatta

To Phi:
N. Ehlers
2017 2nd (Wpg)
2017 3rd (Pitt)

Maybe I'm higher than most on Pouliot but I believe he can and should make the jump to top 4 D, and we did pretty well in playoffs when Maatta wasn't in the line up. I think a top 6 LW is a greater need of ours

No thx from Jets, hard pass

 

[Luc Labelle]

Ehlers played mostly with Scheifele and Perrault though...

That is exactly what I said in my post. 65 points pace not playing on the third line meant he was playing with Scheifele or Perreault / Little and Wheeler for the remaining 42 games. And for anyone who thinks he got his points because he only benefited from playing with better players, Ehlers consistently drives the play on almost every shift. I also think his defensive play and awareness was very good all year.