Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[Bleach Clean]

You guys need to stop speculating on the relationship between Petey and Tocchet…

Because? They've invited it.

Tocchet doesn't 'lie' and did not confirm Pettersson's injury. Ok. Then he goes a step further to call out his performance. Fine. Meanwhile, Pettersson has had a noticeable drop off since January, without rest or explanation, which perfectly aligns with his injury disclosure. Why then did Tocchet press so hard on performance?

He clearly thought Pettersson wasn't injured enough to justify that drop in performance.

 

[mathonwy]

no one is shocked that tocchet lied about pettersson's injury. they're shocked about the other stuff around it

Outraged is the better word. Not sure why though.

 

[pitseleh]

Being in pain and being injured aren’t synonymous. The team was being cute with words but it’s likely true that Pettersson wasn’t “injured” despite being in serious pain.

 

[arttk]

Because? They've invited it.

Tocchet doesn't 'lie' and did not confirm Pettersson's injury. Ok. Then he goes a step further to call out his performance. Fine. Meanwhile, Pettersson has had a noticeable drop off since January, without rest or explanation, which perfectly aligns with his injury disclosure. Why then did Tocchet press so hard on performance?

He clearly thought Pettersson wasn't injured enough to justify that drop in performance.

I mean everyone lied left and right.
Allvin said he won’t buyout OEL and does it like 2 weeks after.
Hronek looking at Patterson saying I am not injured when you have Murph saying he is.
Hell the fact Tocchet said he had Tendonitis points to him lying considering he said no he is not injured and there is one simple reason why any coach would lie during the playoffs, it’s because it’s the f***ing playoffs.

There are a ton of moments you can pick where they lie. The fact this is the moment is exactly proof that people are choosing to make this a bigger deal than it actually is.

Tocchet said he needs to be step up or be better or something like that. It’s a stretch to say Tocchet pressed so hard on performance. If anything Petey sounded harder on himself by saying he was shit and that was harsher than anything Toc said.

 

[Tinhorn1]

The answer is "no".

There is clearly a thing here now between Tocchet and Pettersson. Seravelli calling out Pettersson for potentially lying about his injury to save face just adds fuel to the fire.

Tocchet clearly felt that Pettersson could play through it. Seravelli thinks Pettersson is afraid and soft. Maybe he agrees with Tocchet?

This isn't a good look for either of your Franchise C or your Jack Adams winning Coach...

What isn't a good look is Seravelli slinging a bunch of bullshit and people taking it seriously. Like, this is not serious. Pettersson had an injury that he could play through but that got worse the more he did. However, even on one leg he has his use, so in a very important season and in the first real playoffs this team has seen in forever the coach kept playing him, because he wanted to win, Pettersson wanted to play, and the proper healing process for that injury takes months. Everything makes perfect sense. There is nothing to see here. Nothing. People are making shit up.

Edit: Furthermore, all that "we don't lie" stuff was in the context of Pettersson missing practice due to illness, not injury. That was true. On top of everything else, he was ill. We could hear it in his voice and he also confirmed it.

 

[arttk]

I think people dont really understand the value of a 100 point player and why they are more important than multiple 50-70 pt players.

When a player can score more than like 120pts, they are essentially unstoppable and the best you can do is to limit them to like 1 pt per game. 100 pt player are like a slight level below that, super hard to stop players that you can try to limit.
50-70 pt players are essentially just good player that you can shut down with the right game plan and once every 2 games they will score on you.
You can’t win the cup without the super hard to impossible to stop guys. Yes two 50-70 pt guys will end up putting up more points but in a playoffs, they are much easier to shutdown.

 

[arttk]

Because? They've invited it.

Tocchet doesn't 'lie' and did not confirm Pettersson's injury. Ok. Then he goes a step further to call out his performance. Fine. Meanwhile, Pettersson has had a noticeable drop off since January, without rest or explanation, which perfectly aligns with his injury disclosure. Why then did Tocchet press so hard on performance?

He clearly thought Pettersson wasn't injured enough to justify that drop in performance.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794112385441264111

So Ray talked about it through his own experience.
There are things to think about, a team don’t typically shut players down to rest unless it’s obviously bad or the player asked for it. If the player asked for a rest due to a diagnosed injury, they will rarely reject it because NHLPA.

So Petey didn’t ask for a rest.
Ray talked about how even if they rest him, the timeline is unknown.
This happened in Jan and his play didn’t go downward until post all star game.

You can rationalize that by the time it got worse, it’s already too late. And in terms of performance, he definitely lost his ability to score but not his playmaking ability so there is value to keeping him there. Problem is Mik’s finishing is so f***ing awful that I don’t know what kind of god level playmaking talent is needed to get him to score. So if you put Mik beside him and Petey himself can’t score, of course the assists and goal numbers will go down.

The team and player needs to learn from this.. just shut down any player that has Tendonitis, unless it’s like right before playoffs. Petey needs to learn how to be effective if his body can’t give him the shot he wants, he needs to score in other ways.

 

[Hit the post]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794112385441264111

So Ray talked about it through his own experience.
There are things to think about, a team don’t typically shut players down to rest unless it’s obviously bad or the player asked for it. If the player asked for a rest due to a diagnosed injury, they will rarely reject it because NHLPA.

So Petey didn’t ask for a rest.
Ray talked about how even if they rest him, the timeline is unknown.
This happened in Jan and his play didn’t go downward until post all star game.

You can rationalize that by the time it got worse, it’s already too late. And in terms of performance, he definitely lost his ability to score but not his playmaking ability so there is value to keeping him there. Problem is Mik’s finishing is so f***ing awful that I don’t know what kind of god level playmaking talent is needed to get him to score. So if you put Mik beside him and Petey himself can’t score, of course the assists and goal numbers will go down.

The team and player needs to learn from this.. just shut down any player that has Tendonitis, unless it’s like right before playoffs. Petey needs to learn how to be effective if his body can’t give him the shot he wants, he needs to score in other ways.

Blair MacDonald (b.1953) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics and Records of Blair MacDonald, a hockey player and coach from Cornwall, ONT born Nov 17 1953 who was active from 1970 to 1986.

www.hockeydb.com

#99

 

[SillyRabbit]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794112385441264111

So Ray talked about it through his own experience.
There are things to think about, a team don’t typically shut players down to rest unless it’s obviously bad or the player asked for it. If the player asked for a rest due to a diagnosed injury, they will rarely reject it because NHLPA.

So Petey didn’t ask for a rest.
Ray talked about how even if they rest him, the timeline is unknown.
This happened in Jan and his play didn’t go downward until post all star game.

You can rationalize that by the time it got worse, it’s already too late. And in terms of performance, he definitely lost his ability to score but not his playmaking ability so there is value to keeping him there. Problem is Mik’s finishing is so f***ing awful that I don’t know what kind of god level playmaking talent is needed to get him to score. So if you put Mik beside him and Petey himself can’t score, of course the assists and goal numbers will go down.

The team and player needs to learn from this.. just shut down any player that has Tendonitis, unless it’s like right before playoffs. Petey needs to learn how to be effective if his body can’t give him the shot he wants, he needs to score in other ways.

This still doesn't make sense to me though.

If Pettersson's play has fallen off a cliff, and you know he has tendonitis, you wouldn't say "well, we could rest him... but it might not help, so let's not bother."

You'd rest him as long as you could and hope that it made things better. If it didn't... well there's nothing you can do about that.

But I can't imagine a situation where you would say "nah let's not try resting him because it might not work."

 

[arttk]

This still doesn't make sense to me though.

If Pettersson's play has fallen off a cliff, and you know he has tendonitis, you wouldn't say "well, we could rest him... but it might not help, so let's not bother."

You'd rest him as long as you could and hope that it made things better. If it didn't... well there's nothing you can do about that.

But I can't imagine a situation where you would say "nah let's not try resting him because it might not work."

Stupid hockeyism, play through pain.

Some day the NHL will catch on to the NBA and start load management

 

[Brookbank]

This still doesn't make sense to me though.

If Pettersson's play has fallen off a cliff, and you know he has tendonitis, you wouldn't say "well, we could rest him... but it might not help, so let's not bother."

You'd rest him as long as you could and hope that it made things better. If it didn't... well there's nothing you can do about that.

But I can't imagine a situation where you would say "nah let's not try resting him because it might not work."

Seems there could be a conflict between team and player.

 

[rypper]

I've said it before, I'll say it again I don't think they could have sat Pettersson without putting him on LTIR and still have space to maneuver the cap to get a replacement/ice a full lineup etc.

 

[Tinhorn1]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794112385441264111

So Ray talked about it through his own experience.
There are things to think about, a team don’t typically shut players down to rest unless it’s obviously bad or the player asked for it. If the player asked for a rest due to a diagnosed injury, they will rarely reject it because NHLPA.

So Petey didn’t ask for a rest.
Ray talked about how even if they rest him, the timeline is unknown.
This happened in Jan and his play didn’t go downward until post all star game.

You can rationalize that by the time it got worse, it’s already too late. And in terms of performance, he definitely lost his ability to score but not his playmaking ability so there is value to keeping him there. Problem is Mik’s finishing is so f***ing awful that I don’t know what kind of god level playmaking talent is needed to get him to score. So if you put Mik beside him and Petey himself can’t score, of course the assists and goal numbers will go down.

The team and player needs to learn from this.. just shut down any player that has Tendonitis, unless it’s like right before playoffs. Petey needs to learn how to be effective if his body can’t give him the shot he wants, he needs to score in other ways.

Agree with everything here, except I'm not so sure if they didn't actually do the right thing. As in, do your best, then heal properly in the offseason.

What I find funny about the whole thing is that there's this implication out there that Pettersson is a wuss for not "manning up" and playing better in the playoffs or whatever, and then when it turns out he has an injury and has been playing through pain and doing his best some people straight up won't believe it and believe everyone is lying to cover for him... or something? As in, no matter what, if Pettersson doesn't play well, it's because of a defect of character rather than a legitimate physical issue.

It just pisses me off, frankly, as it all reminds me way too much of when people ragged on the Sedins back in the day, calling them soft, despite the fact that they would play through pain constantly, never complained, and were generally tough as nails.

 

[arttk]

Agree with everything here, except I'm not so sure if they didn't actually do the right thing. As in, do your best, then heal properly in the offseason.

What I find funny about the whole thing is that there's this implication out there that Pettersson is a wuss for not "manning up" and playing better in the playoffs or whatever, and then when it turns out he has an injury and has been playing through pain and doing his best some people straight up won't believe it and believe everyone is lying to cover for him... or something? As in, no matter what, if Pettersson doesn't play well, it's because of a defect of character rather than a legitimate physical issue.

It just pisses me off, frankly, as it all reminds me way too much of when people ragged on the Sedins back in the day, calling them soft, despite the fact that they would play through pain constantly, never complained, and were generally tough as nails.

Took a look on Reddit on the Petey tendonitis thread and you see people talking about how they could barely walk up stairs or do any physical activity when they had it.
People like Servalli need to STFU about Petey being soft.

 

[Bleach Clean]

What isn't a good look is Seravelli slinging a bunch of bullshit and people taking it seriously. Like, this is not serious. Pettersson had an injury that he could play through but that got worse the more he did. However, even on one leg he has his use, so in a very important season and in the first real playoffs this team has seen in forever the coach kept playing him, because he wanted to win, Pettersson wanted to play, and the proper healing process for that injury takes months. Everything makes perfect sense. There is nothing to see here. Nothing. People are making shit up.

Edit: Furthermore, all that "we don't lie" stuff was in the context of Pettersson missing practice due to illness, not injury. That was true. On top of everything else, he was ill. We could hear it in his voice and he also confirmed it.

Why does Tocchet call Pettersson out publicly if he knows he's dealing with this injury?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794112385441264111

So Ray talked about it through his own experience.
There are things to think about, a team don’t typically shut players down to rest unless it’s obviously bad or the player asked for it. If the player asked for a rest due to a diagnosed injury, they will rarely reject it because NHLPA.

So Petey didn’t ask for a rest.
Ray talked about how even if they rest him, the timeline is unknown.
This happened in Jan and his play didn’t go downward until post all star game.

You can rationalize that by the time it got worse, it’s already too late. And in terms of performance, he definitely lost his ability to score but not his playmaking ability so there is value to keeping him there. Problem is Mik’s finishing is so f***ing awful that I don’t know what kind of god level playmaking talent is needed to get him to score. So if you put Mik beside him and Petey himself can’t score, of course the assists and goal numbers will go down.

The team and player needs to learn from this.. just shut down any player that has Tendonitis, unless it’s like right before playoffs. Petey needs to learn how to be effective if his body can’t give him the shot he wants, he needs to score in other ways.

All of that is fair, but the issue is the coach calling out the player's performance despite knowing the extent of the injury.

 

[arttk]

Why does Tocchet call Pettersson out publicly if he knows he's dealing with this injury?





All of that is fair, but the issue is the coach calling out the player's performance despite knowing the extent of the injury.

He said Petey needs to be better after a loss in the playoffs. He also met with him afterwards and change the lineup to give him better linemates…and he called out almost the whole team. You can’t just focus on one thing and proceed to ignore anything else.
Also calling out the best player who is injured could wake up the team, which it did for one game.

If anything, him doing that made sure nobody thinks Petey is injured. It’s so f***ing effective that people are still questioning that.

 

[credulous]

i dunno. i think tocchet at the very least made a serious misjudgement when he outright stated pettersson wasn't injured and then grouped him in with players not giving enough effort. even if he didn't mean to that opened up pettersson to exactly the criticism we are seeing now that he was malingering or exaggerating

if tocchet had just said yeah some guys are banged up but we still need to see more effort out of them the whole pettersson narrative would have been way different (and way less toxic)

i'm in pettersson today i put a lot of the blame for the media and fan bullshit at tocchet's feet

 

[Bleach Clean]

He said Petey needs to be better after a loss in the playoffs. He also met with him afterwards and change the lineup to give him better linemates…You can’t just focus on one thing and proceed to ignore anything else.
Also calling out the best player who is injured could wake up the team, which it did for one game.

If anything, him doing that made sure nobody thinks Petey is injured. It’s so f***ing effective that people are still questioning that.

Sekeres: It sounds like they (management/coach) have a different definition of 'injury' than Elias Pettersson... (It's not just Seravelli)

This is a thing. There is a grey area between being injured to the point of sitting out and injured enough to have one's play impaired. Clearly, Pettersson was the latter, but if Tocchet knows this, it doesn't make sense to call his play out... Unless they are misaligned on how injured he actually had been.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Why does Tocchet call Pettersson out publicly if he knows he's dealing with this injury?





All of that is fair, but the issue is the coach calling out the player's performance despite knowing the extent of the injury.

I would guess because Tocchet is a bit of an old-school hardass for whom injury is never an acceptable excuse, or maybe he had a moment of frustration after a hard loss and was for that moment a fallible human being. Who knows. Doesn't mean there's a "disconnect" or some stupid drama, or that Tocchet, completely out of character, would make up an injury (which we could all plainly see) to retroactively do damage control, as I believe some have suggested. That stuff is absurd.

I will say that there are plenty of people in the hockey world (Hronek) who will never admit to injury for fear of using it as an "excuse." I think that's ridiculous, but there are people like that. Personally, I'm glad Pettersson let me and my fellow fans know about his injury so I don't have to hyperventilate about his contract all summer and can instead sit back and look forward to many more years of him piling up points for the hockey team I follow.

 

[racerjoe]

Blair MacDonald (b.1953) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics and Records of Blair MacDonald, a hockey player and coach from Cornwall, ONT born Nov 17 1953 who was active from 1970 to 1986.

www.hockeydb.com

#99

BJ was actually my hockey coach for a few years. Great guy.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I would guess because Tocchet is a bit of an old-school hardass for whom injury is never an acceptable excuse, or maybe he had a moment of frustration after a hard loss and was for that moment a fallible human being. Who knows. Doesn't mean there's a "disconnect" or some stupid drama, or that Tocchet, completely out of character, would make up an injury (which we could all plainly see) to retroactively do damage control, as I believe some have suggested. That stuff is absurd.

I will say that there are plenty of people in the hockey world (Hronek) who will never admit to injury for fear of using it as an "excuse." I think that's ridiculous, but there are people like that. Personally, I'm glad Pettersson let me and my fellow fans know about his injury so I don't have to hyperventilate about his contract all summer and can instead sit back and look forward to many more years of him piling up points for the hockey team I follow.

I am glad Pettersson said it too. I prefer the transparency.

Tocchet being a bit too old school and calling out what he deems to be a not-injured-enough player is the disconnect. Pettersson is injured. There's no reason then for the call out. Usually, the coach protects the injured player in this case. This was unusual.

Whether there's something going on behind the scenes or not, this incongruency has allowed media members to speculate. I don't think they're out of line for doing so. They too were expecting the usual canned answers and got something decidedly different.

 

[sting101]

You think he has jumpers knee from the few times he falls on the ice during games..?

does he have jumper knee?

Didnt hear that yet...do you know what knee it is?

Out of curiousity what did Tocchet say specifically to "call out Pettersson"

I do remember....." yeah, he’s got to get going. I don’t know what else to say."

what else am i missing?

 

[Tinhorn1]

I am glad Pettersson said it too. I prefer the transparency.

Tocchet being a bit too old school and calling out what he deems to be a not-injured-enough player is the disconnect. Pettersson is injured. There's no reason then for the call out. Usually, the coach protects the injured player in this case. This was unusual.

Whether there's something going on behind the scenes or not, this incongruency has allowed media members to speculate. I don't think they're out of line for doing so. They too were expecting the usual canned answers and got something decidedly different.

I hear you. I just think both things can be true: knowing all about and acknowledging the injury (internally), while also thinking a player should willingly endure more pain because playoffs. Like, nuance. And maybe Pettersson even agreed. They talked, and he played a bit better after that (and I imagine probably really hurt himself doing so). Again, though, who knows. At the end of the day these are two adults pulling on the same rope. A simple conversation does wonders. For me, there is simply no cause for gossips like Sekeres to stir up controversy over what is, to my mind, essentially nothing, but you're right. Media will do that, as will many fans.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Because? They've invited it.

Tocchet doesn't 'lie' and did not confirm Pettersson's injury. Ok. Then he goes a step further to call out his performance. Fine. Meanwhile, Pettersson has had a noticeable drop off since January, without rest or explanation, which perfectly aligns with his injury disclosure. Why then did Tocchet press so hard on performance?

He clearly thought Pettersson wasn't injured enough to justify that drop in performance.

Ridicilious.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Toch didn't wanna tip off that our star player was playing on one knee. This isn't rocket science lmfao.