Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[arttk]

I honestly don’t have much of an appetite to keep debating this, but he was asked, I think multiple times, during that bad stretch of play, whether he was injured and he said no.

he lied about an injury during the season and post-season?!?!?!?!?!
::surprised pikachu face::

 

[Hodgy]

he lied about an injury during the season and post-season?!?!?!?!?!
::surprised pikachu face::

Lol, we are not even talking about the same slump/purported injury.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Lol, we are not even talking about the same slump/purported injury.

This place doesn't even remember the last game, let alone 4 seasons ago.

 

[rypper]

Hughes for Ty Smith was very seriously discussed at HF after Hughes had that season.

I bet a large % of the people who want Petey traded were also on the trade Hughes wagon back then.

Not anyone with half a brain.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

My point is that we don’t know the exact degree to which Pettersson’s knee injury caused his bad play, and that is extremely relevant in analyzing his season last year and projecting his future performance.

No I mean I dont understand why you are willing to by pass all the evidence and just hold on dearly to your initial theory.

Unless you dont understand what tendonitis of the knee is..?

 

[Hodgy]

No I mean I dont understand why you are willing to by pass all the evidence and just hold on dearly to your initial theory.

Unless you dont understand what tendonitis of the knee is..?

I have been diagnosed with patellar tendinitis, among other issues with my leg. Mine wasn’t too severe and I have more significant nerve issues. But there is a range in terms of the severity of symptoms from this injury and it’s dubious to assume Pettersson had the most severe symptoms (from the get go, I might add).

My original theory was something along the lines of that, on a balance of probabilities (I.e., 51% or more probability), I doubted whether he had a significant injury that was the predominant cause for his poor play. I’m sure I’ve stated it many different ways, but that’s been my general point from the beginning. Based on the new evidence I’m still not sure and I’ve already stated why.

The problem is, you are seeing this in black and white and ignoring nuance. You are taking Pettersson’s disclosure that he had a knee injury (later confirmed as patellar tendinitis but no one is speaking to the severity of his symptoms) as confirmation that the injury caused his bad play.

You have made some unsubstantiated assumptions in coming to this conclusion, mainly, that the injury was significant and the cause of his bad play. We all know, of course, that players can have insignificant injuries that don’t significantly affect their play. And really, if it was a debilitating injury you’d kind of expect Tochett to not throw his franchise player under the bus.

But anyway, I’m pretty tired of talking about this. I’ve never been certain or had a ton of confidence one way or the other. That’s why I’ve repeatedly used the term “balance of probabilities”.

 

[arttk]

Injuries affecting play is only an excuse if

Lol, we are not even talking about the same slump/purported injury.

i mean i remember the last injury, he was out for like almost half a season for a wrist injury and the subsequent season, he was ass for like half of it.

Yeah, like he has shown a history of not dealing well with injury or taking time to recover from a severe injury, hell i think he admitted that recovering from the injury was a thing at that season's ending press.

I think you guys buy too deep into the idea that all injury does it give you pain and if your mind is strong enough you will be able to overcome the pain and perform.

I've had a wrist tendon injury and a herniated disc. From personal experience, there is nothing my mind can do to overcome those injuries because those injuries fundamentally affect what my muscles and body can provide.

 

[canuckking1]

Keep making the Kawhi and Spurs comparison. Team and player clearly not on the same page regarding the injury

 

[nowhereman]

I'm still not convinced the injury was the sole reason for his dip in play. I'm not saying he is milking it and that he wasn't in pain but past experience leads me to believe there is a big mental component to all of this. When there were claims that his wrist was bothering him, it didn't explain the sulking, quitting on plays and missing assignments. And it happened again this last year. It might be that he struggles mentally when he's not at his best, which compounds the situation and causes these dramatic dips in play.

My longterm fear isn't that Pettersson isn't a superstar caliber forward who can dominate at his best. It's that any team wanting to make noise in the playoffs is going to have it's stars regularly banged up and he hasn't proven that he can fight through these issues without a substantial downturn in his ability to impact the game.

 

[arttk]

I'm still not convinced the injury was the sole reason for his dip in play. I'm not saying he is milking it and that he wasn't in pain but past experience leads me to believe there is a big mental component to all of this. When there were claims that his wrist was bothering him, it didn't explain the sulking, quitting on plays and missing assignments. And it happened again this last year. It might be that he struggles mentally when he's not at his best, which compounds the situation and causes these dramatic dips in play.

My longterm fear isn't that Pettersson isn't a superstar caliber forward who can dominate at his best. It's that any team wanting to make noise in the playoffs is going to have it's stars regularly banged up and he hasn't proven that he can fight through these issues without a substantial downturn in his ability to impact the game.

This whole body analysis is also f***ing stupid. Folks were basically saying his body language pre contract was him showing that he doesn’t want to be here, he is thinking about leaving, once his contract is signed that turned into oh he’s sulking, he quit on his team.
Have you ever consider that he acts like however he acts because that’s how he acts.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I have been diagnosed with patellar tendinitis, among other issues with my leg. Mine wasn’t too severe and I have more significant nerve issues. But there is a range in terms of the severity of symptoms from this injury and it’s dubious to assume Pettersson had the most severe symptoms (from the get go, I might add).

My original theory was something along the lines of that, on a balance of probabilities (I.e., 51% or more probability), I doubted whether he had a significant injury that was the predominant cause for his poor play. I’m sure I’ve stated it many different ways, but that’s been my general point from the beginning. Based on the new evidence I’m still not sure and I’ve already stated why.

The problem is, you are seeing this in black and white and ignoring nuance. You are taking Pettersson’s disclosure that he had a knee injury (later confirmed as patellar tendinitis but no one is speaking to the severity of his symptoms) as confirmation that the injury caused his bad play.

You have made some unsubstantiated assumptions in coming to this conclusion, mainly, that the injury was significant and the cause of his bad play. We all know, of course, that players can have insignificant injuries that don’t significantly affect their play. And really, if it was a debilitating injury you’d kind of expect Tochett to not throw his franchise player under the bus.

But anyway, I’m pretty tired of talking about this. I’ve never been certain or had a ton of confidence one way or the other. That’s why I’ve repeatedly used the term “balance of probabilities”.

Have no dog in this fight, but I have to say: Why are you arguing balance of probabilities when Pettersson has provided direct evidence as to his injury? (per your earlier discourse re: Pettersson's contract).

I'm still not convinced the injury was the sole reason for his dip in play. I'm not saying he is milking it and that he wasn't in pain but past experience leads me to believe there is a big mental component to all of this. When there were claims that his wrist was bothering him, it didn't explain the sulking, quitting on plays and missing assignments. And it happened again this last year. It might be that he struggles mentally when he's not at his best, which compounds the situation and causes these dramatic dips in play.

My longterm fear isn't that Pettersson isn't a superstar caliber forward who can dominate at his best. It's that any team wanting to make noise in the playoffs is going to have it's stars regularly banged up and he hasn't proven that he can fight through these issues without a substantial downturn in his ability to impact the game.

Possibly, but then we would have to assert that he was never banged up in any post-season play before this, for that to be true.

Like you, I think it was a combination of things, the least of which is being saddled with Mikheyev. It's the injury, the mental game, linemates, the system etc... Riding a hot conversion rate early certainly masked a lot of these issues.

 

[Regal]

This whole body analysis is also f***ing stupid. Folks were basically saying his body language pre contract was him showing that he doesn’t want to be here, he is thinking about leaving, once his contract is signed that turned into oh he’s sulking, he quit on his team.
Have you ever consider that he acts like however he acts because that’s how he acts.

If his petulant child act isn’t related to mental fatigue from not being 100%, it sure as hell doesn’t make the situation less concerning moving forward.

 

[rea]

Lol this thread was started march 2nd. Many of you have been posting in this since. The absolute Rollercoaster of emotions some of you exhibit at completely opposite sides of the spectrum in terms of love/hate, defend/blame, lol.. Never change HF

 

[aquaweenie]

I hope two things

1) that he was genuinely injured and it effected his playoff performance. He didn’t pull a Mitch like no show- it was an injury.

2) it’s not a chronic issue and that he’s able to add enough weight and prepare for the season this summer.

 

[sting101]

I hope two things

1) that he was genuinely injured and it effected his playoff performance. He didn’t pull a Mitch like no show- it was an injury.

2) it’s not a chronic issue and that he’s able to add enough weight and prepare for the season this summer.

Exactly

And more to that hopefully this is where he matures mentally becomes a leader and is able to show resilience when faced with adversity.

I'm skeptical of how much the tendinitis is perceived and was the reason vs how much he let that be a reason. Bottom line is hockey is a physical sport and playoffs are hard. Many of the others chose to not let it be a excuse even if it was a contributing factor. To go 4 rounds you need to be mentally tough. He's got more to give hopefully that starts next year

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I have been diagnosed with patellar tendinitis, among other issues with my leg. Mine wasn’t too severe and I have more significant nerve issues. But there is a range in terms of the severity of symptoms from this injury and it’s dubious to assume Pettersson had the most severe symptoms (from the get go, I might add).

He was doing contact sports daily, with travel that limits recovery.

My original theory was something along the lines of that, on a balance of probabilities (I.e., 51% or more probability), I doubted whether he had a significant injury that was the predominant cause for his poor play. I’m sure I’ve stated it many different ways, but that’s been my general point from the beginning. Based on the new evidence I’m still not sure and I’ve already stated why.

How do you explain his lack of lateral mobility and lack of torque on his usually very hard wrist shot. His stick bend was night and day different from what we are used to.

The problem is, you are seeing this in black and white and ignoring nuance. You are taking Pettersson’s disclosure that he had a knee injury (later confirmed as patellar tendinitis but no one is speaking to the severity of his symptoms) as confirmation that the injury caused his bad play.

Yes.

With no other evidence and with his previously insanely stellar play, this is the one thing we know that easily explains the drop in quality of his play.

You have made some unsubstantiated assumptions in coming to this conclusion, mainly, that the injury was significant and the cause of his bad play. We all know, of course, that players can have insignificant injuries that don’t significantly affect their play. And really, if it was a debilitating injury you’d kind of expect Tochett to not throw his franchise player under the bus.

This is all in your imagination.

With this type of injury if you continue to exercise and don't rest, the pain will become more persistent and will be present before, during and after activity.

You also cannot read Tochett's mind. It could just be that he has the same limited understanding of the injury as you seem to have. Or, in our organization, he probably got some very poor advice from our medical staff.

But anyway, I’m pretty tired of talking about this. I’ve never been certain or had a ton of confidence one way or the other. That’s why I’ve repeatedly used the term “balance of probabilities”.

Yeah. When you hold opinions that don't align with the actual state of the world, you keep facing friction and that can be exhausting.

 

[shottasasa]

Give up people, I have already declared checkmate on this subject

 

[Hodgy]

He was doing contact sports daily, with travel that limits recovery.

Ok, you still don’t know how severe the symptoms were when it started and how severe they were at the end of the playoffs. It’s all really conjecture on your part.

How do you explain his lack of lateral mobility and lack of torque on his usually very hard wrist shot. His stick bend was night and day different from what we are used to.

You will recall he had a multiple month slump two years ago with no confirmed injury other than the fact at the beginning of the year he was taping his wrist as he recovered from an injury from 4-5 months ago. He never had a knee injury, and it’s unclear his wrist had much of an affect on that slump, and he was equally poor. And during that slump he was asked whether he was injured and said no. And when Boudreau talked about this recent slump a few weeks ago he referenced confidence, and he also thought confidence was the cause of the earlier slump.

So the notion that injuries are the only explanation for his poor is a poor premise as his former coach thinks otherwise.

Yes.

With no other evidence and with his previously insanely stellar play, this is the one thing we know that easily explains the drop in quality of his play.

This is all in your imagination.

My imagination and his former coach’s! Again, the premise that injuries are the only explanation for his poor play is very dubious. Clearly there are other potential explanations.

With this type of injury if you continue to exercise and don't rest, the pain will become more persistent and will be present before, during and after activity.

Again, you have no idea what his symptoms are. You may be correct, it you may be incorrect as well. There are a range of symptoms.

You also cannot read Tochett's mind. It could just be that he has the same limited understanding of the injury as you seem to have. Or, in our organization, he probably got some very poor advice from our medical staff.

Tochett would have limited information about an injury that has basically halved the production of his franchise player for four months? Another very dubious premise and, I would say, extremely unlikely.

The medical advice bit is obviously unsubstantiated speculation, but you may of course be right. But nothing really turns on that.

Yeah. When you hold opinions that don't align with the actual state of the world, you keep facing friction and that can be exhausting.

Look, I don’t know the answer. But it’s not black and white, and treating my view as obviously wrong is kind of ridiculous in the circumstances.

 

[Hodgy]

Have no dog in this fight, but I have to say: Why are you arguing balance of probabilities when Pettersson has provided direct evidence as to his injury? (per your earlier discourse re: Pettersson's contract).

It’s a balance of probabilities, because while I accept there was an injury, I am not confident whether the injury was or was not predominantly responsible for his poor play.

I’m with you that a bunch of factors are probably at play, like confidence and linemates. It’s hard to say whether the injury was anything more than a minor or lingering injury. I think it was telling (and frankly a good thing) that he took responsibility calling his play “shit”. Personally, if I was playing through some debilitating injury I would just write my play off as “shit”, without qualification.

 

[JT Milker]

Pettersson wasn’t particularly good in the first few months of the season either but everything was going in so that argument was usually dismissed.

 

[sting101]

Yeah. When you hold opinions that don't align with the actual state of the world, you keep facing friction and that can be exhausting.

Is there "jumper knee" confirmation/source? Or is being correct and providing facts only apply to the argument that he was making excuses or perhaps just taking some heat off for "shit" play to which degree we will never know

I can just imagine if EP40 had just had one of the best seasons ever by a Canuck and dragged this team into the fight and first place in the division and Miller had the season that Pettersson just had how different your takes would be.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

So f***ing frustrating that his inability to stay healthy was the difference.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

people need a new hobby

 

[arttk]

If his petulant child act isn’t related to mental fatigue from not being 100%, it sure as hell doesn’t make the situation less concerning moving forward.

He looks frustrated when he doesn’t score or something he does doesn’t work, and somehow that is petulant.
It’s like show emotion = negative
Don’t show emotion = don’t care

stop trying so hard to project

 

[arttk]

Pettersson wasn’t particularly good in the first few months of the season either but everything was going in so that argument was usually dismissed.

He was on a 120-140 point pace for 50 games. You don’t put up that kind of point pace over 50 games because PDO or luck.