Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[racerjoe]

the whole theoretical basic of chiropractic is that pressure on the nerves from subtle misalignments causes a whole cornucopia of medical issues. the problem is that we can actually measure nerve function and there's absolutely zero experimental evidence that this is true. beyond that, we have actual effective medical treatment for nerve impingement and it doesn't look anything like chiropractic

are there theoretical benefits to spinal and joint adjustments? yes. should we use chiropractic "expertise" as a guide for those adjustments? absolutely f***ing not

Oh so its not that you don't know anything its that you are stuck in 1895...

Seriously that isn't a dig, but what you just referenced is from 1895. Medicine was still using bloodletting back then. Modern chiro is evidence based, and peer reviewed and considered by countless medical journals to be the best treatment for mechanical low back pain, and in the 1% of cases that do actually involve nerve implements it should be the first course of treatment as it is safer and more effective than surgery or medication.

 

[F A N]

All the good evidence based maneuvers they do are things a physiatrist or physical therapist can do. They just add on a bunch of nonsense that actually causes more harm than good. As a doctor I've seen severe life changing injuries from chiropractors.

When you say some are good some are bad that's part of the problem, they don't have strong evidence based guidelines and treatment modalities the way doctors do for the core chiropractic stuff. The rehabbing and recovery medicine is all physiatry. Had a vertebral dissection patient from a chiropractor. They didn't have a good outcome to put it lightly. I'm sure there's great witch doctors out there and there's bad ones that hurt people. When there aren't standards of care I'm not recommending them to my patients. (Nor am I telling patients not to go to one if they so choose, but evidence matters if I'm prescribing or advising people to get something).

This is very off topic tho. Just hope if they are rehabbing people, they base their treatments on evidence. I'm sure the team hires good people who dont do the quackery side of it...or hope so

Not questioning anything you say here, but it's not like I can book appointments with a physiatrist for next week and see him/her/them weekly.

 

[Ernie]

All the good evidence based maneuvers they do are things a physiatrist or physical therapist can do. They just add on a bunch of nonsense that actually causes more harm than good. As a doctor I've seen severe life changing injuries from chiropractors.

When you say some are good some are bad that's part of the problem, they don't have strong evidence based guidelines and treatment modalities the way doctors do for the core chiropractic stuff. The rehabbing and recovery medicine is all physiatry. Had a vertebral dissection patient from a chiropractor. They didn't have a good outcome to put it lightly. I'm sure there's great witch doctors out there and there's bad ones that hurt people. When there aren't standards of care I'm not recommending them to my patients. (Nor am I telling patients not to go to one if they so choose, but evidence matters if I'm prescribing or advising people to get something).

This is very off topic tho. Just hope if they are rehabbing people, they base their treatments on evidence. I'm sure the team hires good people who dont do the quackery side of it...or hope so

At one time acupuncture was considered quackery, but now IMS is pretty well established amongst physiotherapists. I agree that chiropractors are poorly regulated but just because something isn't mainstream "scientific" doesn't mean there isn't some good in it.

 

[credulous]

At one time acupuncture was considered quackery, but now IMS is pretty well established amongst physiotherapists. I agree that chiropractors are poorly regulated but just because something isn't mainstream "scientific" doesn't mean there isn't some good in it.

this works against chiropractic practice

if it was scientifically validated it would just be medicine (like ims is now) and wouldn't be this whole other thing. doctors aren't shy about adopting practices that work once they're validated. there's just no evidence that chiro is effective and there's a lot of evidence it's actually harmful

 

[Ernie]

this works against chiropractic practice

if it was scientifically validated it would just be medicine (like ims is now) and wouldn't be this whole other thing. doctors aren't shy about adopting practices that work once they're validated. there's just no evidence that chiro is effective and there's a lot of evidence it's actually harmful

Family doctors are generalists, not specialists. It's kind of like saying that doctors should do physiotherapy, or operate x-rays.

 

[credulous]

Family doctors are generalists, not specialists. It's kind of like saying that doctors should do physiotherapy, or operate x-rays.

lots of doctors are specialists. pm&r would jump all over chiropractic if it were proven

(pm&r specialists literally do physiotherapy)

 

[arttk]

lots of doctors are specialists. pm&r would jump all over chiropractic if it were proven

(pm&r specialists literally do physiotherapy)

Ironically physiotherapy requires less schooling than chiropractor.
Chiro 4 year undergrad and 4 year grad school
Physiotherapy 4 years undergrad and 2 years grad school.

 

[credulous]

Ironically physiotherapy requires less schooling than chiropractor.
Chiro 4 year undergrad and 4 year grad school
Physiotherapy 4 years undergrad and 2 years grad school.

pm&r is a medical specialty. they do med school and full residencies

 

[arttk]

pm&r is a medical specialty. they do med school and full residencies

and?
I mean one thing being effective does not mean the other thing is not, they are not mutually exclusive.

I asked my doctor at Kaiser once is chiro legit and the answer was simply, if it alleviates your pain there is no reason why you shouldn't do it, the point of medicine is to fix you and be better, if it works it works.

 

[Tinhorn1]

this works against chiropractic practice

if it was scientifically validated it would just be medicine (like ims is now) and wouldn't be this whole other thing. doctors aren't shy about adopting practices that work once they're validated. there's just no evidence that chiro is effective and there's a lot of evidence it's actually harmful

My general impression of chiropractors is they're a bunch of quacks with a few decent ones sprinkled in here and there. You know, the ones who aren't into vaccine denialism or whatever.

 

[arttk]

My general impression of chiropractors is they're a bunch of quacks with a few decent ones sprinkled in here and there. You know, the ones who aren't into vaccine denialism or whatever.

i am guessing the newer ones are probably much better than the older ones considering there is genuine effort from the certification board to improve the field and the fact that insurance now covers chiropractic work.

 

[credulous]

and?
I mean one thing being effective does not mean the other thing is not, they are not mutually exclusive.

I asked my doctor at Kaiser once is chiro legit and the answer was simply, if it alleviates your pain there is no reason why you shouldn't do it, the point of medicine is to fix you and be better, if it works it works.

doctors will tell you to pursue any treatment they don't think is actively harmful because they're trained not to put medicine in opposition with folk remedies or alternative medicine. the goal is to keep the patient engaged with the medical mainstream even if they are prone to believing in unscientific remedies

 

[arttk]

doctors will tell you to pursue any treatment they don't think is actively harmful because they're trained not to put medicine in opposition with folk remedies or alternative medicine. the goal is to keep the patient engaged with the medical mainstream even if they are prone to believing in unscientific remedies

i am pretty sure if i told them i want to go fly to <country> to see a witch doctor they will say no you should not. i mean i haven't tried but i think ethically they would prevent me from purusing treatment that they know is dangerous and harmful.

 

[credulous]

i am pretty sure if i told them i want to go fly to <country> to see a witch doctor they will say no you should not. i mean i haven't tried but i think ethically they would prevent me from purusing treatment that they know is dangerous and harmful.

try it, you'd be surprised

 

[Nick Lang]

and?
I mean one thing being effective does not mean the other thing is not, they are not mutually exclusive.

I asked my doctor at Kaiser once is chiro legit and the answer was simply, if it alleviates your pain there is no reason why you shouldn't do it, the point of medicine is to fix you and be better, if it works it works.

When I went I felt it helped, but only for a short while. Sometimes only several hours. Then I would have to go back. Way to expensive to do 3 or 4 times a week for the benefit provided.

 

[rypper]

Stuck with him now. Good regular season player. Don’t expect much when it counts.

He's had one great playoffs and one not so great playoffs. Let see what the next one looks like before we start saying "we're stuck with him" or other broad negative statements.

 

[Tinhorn1]

i am guessing the newer ones are probably much better than the older ones considering there is genuine effort from the certification board to improve the field and the fact that insurance now covers chiropractic work.

Could well be true. Ironically, given my criticism of the chiropractic profession's lack of scientific rigour as a whole, my impression of it is largely based on anecdote.

 

[arttk]

Could well be true. Ironically, given my criticism of the chiropractic profession's lack of scientific rigour as a whole, my impression of it is largely based on anecdote.

Like I said I’ve been to good ones and been to bad ones. The good one fixed me and the bad ones were either leeches or actually damaging.

 

[arttk]

When I went I felt it helped, but only for a short while. Sometimes only several hours. Then I would have to go back. Way to expensive to do 3 or 4 times a week for the benefit provided.

I think the latest science for most things are, you just need to workout more and fix things by improving your muscles.
I went to physiotherapy for wrist tendon thing, calf tear and herniated disc and the physiotherapist is like here are some exercises. And when I ask what happened to the “therapy” part of physiotherapy, the response was oh we don’t do that anymore.

 

[Vector]

We’re extremely far afield of talking about Pettersson.

 

[nowhereman]

This thread has gone in a very interesting direction since I last left it...

 

[lawrence]

Stuck with him now. Good regular season player. Don’t expect much when it counts.

he lead our team in points in the 2021 playoff bubble.

 

[bossram]

We’re extremely far afield of talking about Pettersson.

Honestly, the discussion is probably better than when it was everyone arguing with two guys denying Petey was injured at all.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Really hope the team doesn't hire a chiro. Evidence based medicine is important. Also this isn't just hate for chiropractors. I also hope they don't have any exorcists or shamans on the medical staff.

Edit: googled it and the team has chiropractors... disappointing

I fully agree!

They had a ton of them and let some go recently. Even in a leading position.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

We’re extremely far afield of talking about Pettersson.

Oh come on grumpypants. Its the offseason.

We can only debate wether Petterson faked his injury or not for so long until we get bored.