Speculation: Pettersson/Miller

[Peter Griffin]

The plus would have been sizable, just wasn’t sure if Manson is the type of defender the Canucks wanted from a RHD perspective.

Is there anything the Avs could add to Mitts outside of the big 3 that would entice Vancouver to get this deal done?

I think if they do move EP, a top 6 center and top 4 defender would be required in return. No interest in Girard/Malinski. Toews probably too rich. Not sure if there’s a fit.

As good a player as Miller is, no one wants that contract. Not going to be easy to move.

Yet there’s been rumours of at least one team inquiring about his availability.

 

[Ciao]

I get that Mitts has never hit the same highs as Petterson which is why we both value Petty more, but is the no chance from the lines of Manson not being attractive at all or Mitts just not being the player you want?

These guys aren't on the same planet.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Miller is 31. Why are they interchangeable.

 

[BHFAN92]

Nazar, Lardis, and Toronto 1st for Pettersson

hell nah

 

[Perratrooper]

These guys aren't on the same planet.

They’re the same age, both centers, receive similar offensive distribution and currently are separated by 3 points in scoring. I’m not saying that Petterson isn’t better, he clearly is, but the gap between them appears to be closer this year.

 

[BHD]

Keep in mind, EP is 26 and Miller is 31.

 

[Bobby9]

Not the way EP has been playing the last year...he hasn't been playing like a 12 million dollar player.

He had more points that both of them combined last year..

 

[StickShift]

One nuance to "Why trade Pettersson and not Miller" has to do with trade protection.

Pettersson doesn't have any trade protection in his contract until July 1, 2025. A player cannot have a NMC or NTC until they reach the season in which they would be old enough to qualify as a UFA. This means Vancouver could trade Pettersson anywhere they want up until July 1, 2025. After that date, the player gains complete control over which team they would accept a trade to, significantly diminishing Vancouver's leverage in trade talks. This is the same scenario Montreal faced with P.K. Subban—they ultimately traded him before his NMC kicked in.

Miller, on the other hand, is already in his extension and has a full NMC until July 1, 2028. This means he can already determine which teams he would or wouldn’t accept a trade to. As a result, Vancouver’s return in a potential trade could be limited if Miller decided he would only waive his clause for a specific team. This is similar to what happened with Ryan Kesler, who forced Vancouver into trading him to Anaheim for a relatively weak return.

So they could trade Pettersson now and get a relatively rich return—or they could trade JT Miller and get a relatively limited return.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Trouble seems to follow JT Miller wherever he goes.

However, at his age, that won't last forever.


Sure.

That way you could divide the room into factions, and have lingering resentment and animosity until all the players on the wrong side are gone.

Edmonton, Winnipeg and Calgary fans should be all for this!

Let's say that Miller is the issue and you trade Petie. The issue remains and the rest of the team will be pissed. You ask each player individually and take notes so that no one knows who voted for who. It's not an ideal situation but what's the alternative?

 

[Svencouver]

If EP is the moody one then why was Miller the one to sulk and refuse to player for weeks? If I am missing something please tell me I am an idiot because i don't follow the nucks a lot so I could be way off.

Because people are still invested in the idea that being louder/getting angrier/more upset with your teammates means you're more "passionate" and have more "fire" for the game. The double standard given to Pettersson is just an extension of the decades-long "soft moody european" stereotype, which you think the Canucks in particular would have been the first to move past after Naslund and the Sedins.

 

[Ciao]

They’re the same age, both centers, receive similar offensive distribution and currently are separated by 3 points in scoring. I’m not saying that Petterson isn’t better, he clearly is, but the gap between them appears to be closer this year.

Elias Pettersen and Casey Mittelstadt?

Pettersen has 438 points in 439 career games.

Mittelstadt has 219 points in 391 career games.

Yeah, they're close. The Canucks should do this. Sure.

 

[Fjordy]

One nuance to "Why trade Pettersson and not Miller" has to do with trade protection.

Pettersson doesn't have any trade protection in his contract until July 1, 2025. A player cannot have a NMC or NTC until they reach the season in which they would be old enough to qualify as a UFA. This means Vancouver could trade Pettersson anywhere they want up until July 1, 2025. After that date, the player gains complete control over which team they would accept a trade to, significantly diminishing Vancouver's leverage in trade talks. This is the same scenario Montreal faced with P.K. Subban—they ultimately traded him before his NMC kicked in.

Miller, on the other hand, is already in his extension and has a full NMC until July 1, 2028. This means he can already determine which teams he would or wouldn’t accept a trade to. As a result, Vancouver’s return in a potential trade could be limited if Miller decided he would only waive his clause for a specific team. This is similar to what happened with Ryan Kesler, who forced Vancouver into trading him to Anaheim for a relatively weak return.

So they could trade Pettersson now and get a relatively rich return—or they could trade JT Miller and get a relatively limited return.

I agree, although Miller could have named not one team, but five or ten, for example. Then the price would still be higher, but these are still limitations.

 

[JKG33]

I think they’re both on shitty contracts and I don’t know that either brings back enough to truly help you. You’re just looking to move as much of the money as you can. I think as bad as Petey has been there’s probably a higher believe you can get longer value out of him, but I wouldn’t want my team to trade for either.

Miller has played well to this point, but he’s got five years left. No one thinks he’s going to be great the last couple of years there. He’s clearly a strong personality and he did just take some time off. I don’t think the value Canucks fans want is there. You’re just happy to move the money.

For the record I'm not a Canucks fan, but I'm a fan of Miller.

I can't comprehend how anyone sees him as a bad contract. Right now he's serverly underpaid for what he brings, and he will be for the next couple years. And i also don't think he falls right off until maybe the last yr or 2 at worst. That's still a good window if you're a cup contender.

Meanwhile EP has never actually been worth his new cap hit, and the cap will need to go up significantly for him to ever be close to worth it. But at the same time if the cap goes up by that much, Miller's last couple years suddenly aren't that bad either

 

[JKG33]

Vancouver would be crazy to trade Pettesson over Miller. Even if you like Miller’s game more, he’s going to break down so fast over the next few years.

Would you rather have a guy who's underpaid by $4m for a few years, adequately paid for a couple years, and overpaid by $2-3ish for the last couple years?

Or a guy who's overpaid by $4m for the next 7 years?

 

[Devilsfan118]

Man how bad of a teammate and locker room cancer is JT Miller eh?

This is what, the third lockeroom he's caused a divide in?

Trade him before EP, 100%

 

[JKG33]

Knowing what I actually know of Elias, is that he’s veeeery competitive- or at least he was. I think it could be the other way around, honestly. Miller just screams obnoxious douche to me

What about Miller's play leads you to believe he's the one that doesn't give a shit out there? Cause EP sure looks that way most of the time.

Even if Miller is an obnoxious douche, which he probably is, I'd take the underpaid douche over the overpaid guy who can't be bothered to give a shit most of the time

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

I don't like how speculation and rumors have become the narrative and treated as fact.

thissss. completely fabricated

 

[Ciao]

What about Miller's play leads you to believe he's the one that doesn't give a shit out there? Cause EP sure looks that way most of the time.

Even if Miller is an obnoxious douche, which he probably is, I'd take the underpaid douche over the overpaid guy who can't be bothered to give a shit most of the time

You sure do like JT Miller.

We get that.

 

[Mattilaus]

I think if they do move EP, a top 6 center and top 4 defender would be required in return. No interest in Girard/Malinski. Toews probably too rich. Not sure if there’s a fit.


Yet there’s been rumours of at least one team inquiring about his availability.

Cozens and Byram it is. I'll send over the paper work.

 

[JKG33]

Keep in mind, EP is 26 and Miller is 31.

Also keep in mind one is underpaid by about $4m, and one is overpaid by about $4m

 

[Peter Griffin]

Cozens and Byram it is. I'll send over the paper work.

Sure, just make sure to add Kulich or Peterka as well.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Let's say that Miller is the issue and you trade Petie. The issue remains and the rest of the team will be pissed. You ask each player individually and take notes so that no one knows who voted for who. It's not an ideal situation but what's the alternative?

If they don't know where the room stands and who is the better person moving forward, they are in big trouble.

 

[Fjordy]

Sure, just make sure to add Kulich or Peterka as well.

Lafferty or Krebs

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Lafferty or Krebs

Losing a SCF the way we did in 2011 or losing with Brett Hulls skate in the crease?

#Pain

 

[Peter Griffin]

Lafferty or Krebs

Nah.