Proposal: Petry to the Caps

[TS Quint]

Maybe you should have followed your own tip.



Ohh gawd you are a special one...bringing Caufield into a thread that has nothing to do with him. Even if Caufield is 5 years younger but heh..

Compare Garland’s numbers to the rest of the Habs then. But we agree last year Garland was better than Caufield this year. Maybe Caufield will be better in a couple years.

no matter how you want to do this, the trade proposed is nowhere near the OEL trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Also love the description “young LD” and not “recently picked up on waivers.”

He is a young LD that can be used for depth or bottom pairing. Not worth a debate on the add on part. If you don't value him, we can take him out. Simple as that.

Just cause he was picked up on waivers, it don't mean he has zero or negative value. So you can love what you want to love with your nit picking around the edges.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Compare Garland’s numbers to the rest of the Habs then. But we agree last year Garland was better than Caufield this year. Maybe Caufield will be better in a couple years.

no matter how you want to do this, the trade proposed is nowhere near the OEL trade.

The Trade proposal is less than what OEL returned. Other parts in the OEL trade that is complicating things for you clearly and the overall point is way over your head cause your stuck on Petry devalue narratives.

Caufield should not be compared to a 25 year old. It's a horrible context you are providing.

 

[cwede]

for a moment i mixed up Clague and Guhle,
so including Lapierre seemed reasonable

but no

Petry maybe good for Caps,
but Habs likely gotta offer much more to get Lapierre
ELC talent is how vet-heavy contenders can manage the Cap, stay competitive and stay contenders

 

[Habs Halifax]

Horrible for the Caps. Please keep Petry.

Bookmark it. Petry will return something similar when it's all said and done! Disagree? Look up Patch, Toffoli, Chiarot, and Lehkonen. Habs know what we are trading in Petry.

You and others must be getting tired of being wrong with Habs devalue narratives. . We are trying to find a new home for Petry, not Gallagher. Gallagher is the one that is very difficult to move. Not Petry. Reality but continue on and be wrong again.

Petry from age 34-36 is not horrible value. He's showing zero signs of decline other than stat checking and ignoring the fact that he is drowning on a bad team this year.

 

[jfhabs]

This is a troll post, first of all whether Schultz and Kempny resign or walk is irrelevant, that doesnt change the fact that Fehervary is the only dman under 30 and Petry doesnt change that.

Second, why are you comparing Martinez when they are completely different style defensemen? Martinez is a defensive shutdown guy that can put up points and Petry is an offensive defenseman that is weak defensively.

Thirdly, you keep bringing up Makar and Byram, why? The caps dont need a 19/20 year old 1st pair guy, they wpuld be getting someone for the 2nd pr 3rd pair to be sheltered by Orlov.

I find it funny how its a burden for Montreal to take on Hagelin but not for Washington to take on Petry. Your proposal is poorly thought put and the value is just silly

Petry isn't a pure ofdensive defenseman he's more of a 2way/strong transition guy. He's quite effective defensively (not this year). He's prone to mental mistakes on defense, but that comes with risk taking as well. He more then makes up for it in genreal.

 

[TS Quint]

The Trade proposal is less than what OEL returned. Other parts in the OEL trade that is complicating things for you clearly and the overall point is way over your head cause your stuck on Petry devalue narratives.

Caufield should not be compared to a 25 year old. It's a horrible context you are providing.

No kidding it’s way less than the OEL deal, It’s less than the Lindros deal too. Either way it’s not close and it still has nothing to do with me devaluing Petry. This is YOUR COMPARISON and it isn’t even close to The same value. Now, if you were to make a deal anywhere near the OEL trade we can then get into what Petry is worth. But your offer isn’t even what you say it is.

 

[Habs Halifax]

for a moment i mixed up Clague and Guhle,
so including Lapierre seemed reasonable

but no

Petry maybe good for Caps,
but Habs likely gotta offer much more to get Lapierre
ELC talent is how vet-heavy contenders can manage the Cap, stay competitive and stay contenders

Take Lapierre out of it and add a late 1st. I'm personally not desperate to only demand for Lapierre. I know his game very well with him playing in my back yard here on the east coast. Good prospect and fringe grade A/B+ type that was never on a WJC roster. He's good but not that good.

The base is this.
Petry
for
A smaller cap dump
Late 1st & B- prospect or a B+/Fringe grade A and a 2nd.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Petry isn't a pure ofdensive defenseman he's more of a 2way/strong transition guy. He's quite effective defensively (not this year). He's prone to mental mistakes on defense, but that comes with risk taking as well. He more then makes up for it in genreal.

Petry is a very mobile top 4RD who is good at both ends. Moves the puck very well and he's going to remain a top 4RD from age 34-36. People are just in devalue mode by stat checking. There are zero signs of Petry losing his skating and mobility for a big man.

 

[Misery74]

Petry is a very mobile top 4RD who is good at both ends. Moves the puck very well and he's going to remain a top 4RD from age 34-36. People are just in devalue mode by stat checking. There are zero signs of Petry losing his skating and mobility for a big man.

Caps can’t afford him. We aren’t trading Lapierre, or a first for Petry, even with Hagelins contract.

Caps need a goaltender. That is where our money and assets will be focused.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How old is he? He turns 35 befire the end of this year
he has 3 yrs at $6M+
hes forecast to be at best a 20 pt D at ES…assuming he maintains his level of play which I doubt.
Martinez is $1M per less and a full year less..big difference.

unless you retain a chunk you aren’t going to get anything worthwhile for him.

$1M is not a big difference cause Petry is better than Martinez.

Martinez from 34 to 36 (July birthdate).
vs
Petry from 34-36/37 (Dec birthdate)

Big difference my ass! Nice try, it's a 6 month difference where Petry is more mobile and can provide more offense. The $1M difference is valid cause Petry has more value. Reality

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure man, whatever helps you pretend there's no bias

It's not bias. Habs fans (well some of them) know what we are trading.

Patch
Toffoli
Chiarot
Lehkonen
and... Petry this summer.

It's Petry we are trying to trade, not Gallagher. Gallagher is showing decline at a earlier age. Petry is not in serious decline at age 34. He's a very solid top 4RD with size and mobility and his offensive ability has not faded that quickly.

There is zero bias to this. Petry has more value than what posters will admit to on HF boards. Disagree all you want but you will be wrong in the end. Just like the others we traded

 

[Habs Halifax]

Caps can’t afford him. We aren’t trading Lapierre, or a first for Petry, even with Hagelins contract.

Caps need a goaltender. That is where our money and assets will be focused.

I can respect you prefer not to trade Lapierre. We can look at something else but we are getting the futures we want. Late 1st and B prospect or B+ and 2nd rounder with a small cap dump coming as well. Petry is a rare big man with mobility and is not in decline. He will remain a top 4RD from age 34-36.

Caps have 17 players signed with $9M in cap space. Difference between Petry and Hagelin is about $3.5M. Caps still have $5.5M left to make other improvements. I disagree the Caps can't afford him.

Also, said it before and will say it again. Bookmark it... Even if Petry is not a good fit, the Caps are going to look at improvements on D with their cap space. It's possible they improve both at goaltending and on D.

 

[Boondock]

34-36/37 for a lean big man who will remain a top 4D is not a serious risk. It's too easy to say when a player who is drowning on a bad team. This is not a decline issue with Petry. It's an issue of him drowning on Montreal and needs a new fit.

Like I said, if he was overweight for his age, you might have a point. But he is not overweight and there are zero signs his skating is in decline.

Lappiere is a fringe grade A or B+ type. I'm really not that high on him and he was never a WJC type talent. I'm not asking for a gold mine in futures by taking a cap dump back and Lappeiere/2nd rounder. I think it's subjective but it's not a massive reach in value.

Canucks paid a bigger futures price in the trade for OEL who has larger term and signed till 35. They also were able to unload Eriksson in that trade.

1) Saying there is not a serious risk is nothing more than your opinion, and facts actual show that the vast majority of NHL players regardless of their weight are out of the league or in serious decline by the time they are 36-37. There are currently 7 dmen in the entire NHL playing at the age 36/37 - all of them are significantly worse than they were during their most productive years. So not only is there evidence that not many players make it that long but that their play drops significantly in those later years.

2) To say it is not a decline issue is to over simplify. I think it would be fair to say his play this season isn't 100% due to his decline as a player but to state "it is not a decline issue" isn't true either. Some of the issue is the team, but some is his age and the miles he has put on, and that is decline.

3) The Canucks comment is inaccurate - Canucks traded 3 bad contracts (Beagle $3.0, Roussel $3.0 and Eriksson $6.0 - so a total of $12.0 in bad contracts). They also received Garland in the trade who was a 25 year old top 6 winger that just scored 39pts in 49 games. So the Futures you stated were less for OEL and more for the young top 6 winger.

3b) That trade was another in a long example of ignorant moves by the Benning administration that destroyed the Canucks while he was here and will continue to struggle due to the terrible manner that Benning ran the Canucks. So to use the OEL trade as a justification would simply put a team in the brutal situation the Canucks are in due to their mouth breathing, rock eating management group that set the team back a decade.

 

[Irie]

Trading for Petry is a huge gamble for any team.

The chances of him not heavily declining are slim, and he's signed for 3 more years.

The argument "but he can still skate" does not really address the issue.

There are what, probably 260 defensemen that played substantial minutes this year.

How many were older than 35?

Six.That's right. Only SIX!

At 22, that crosscheck you take on your hip is sore for two days. At 28 it is sore for 5-6 days. At 35, you are still feeling it a week and a half later. 82 game season is brutal on the 35 year old physiology.

Petry may bounce back and play well at 36 and 37, but it would be a pretty big gamble to take his contract on for free.

Add the asks in this thread to that equation and it is easy to understand why fans of other teams react negatively to the proposals of Hab's fans telling them they need a guy they don't want.

 

[Habs Halifax]

1) Saying there is not a serious risk is nothing more than your opinion, and facts actual show that the vast majority of NHL players regardless of their weight are out of the league or in serious decline by the time they are 36-37. There are currently 7 dmen in the entire NHL playing at the age 36/37 - all of them are significantly worse than they were during their most productive years. So not only is there evidence that not many players make it that long but that their play drops significantly in those later years.

2) To say it is not a decline issue is to over simplify. I think it would be fair to say his play this season isn't 100% due to his decline as a player but to state "it is not a decline issue" isn't true either. Some of the issue is the team, but some is his age and the miles he has put on, and that is decline.

3) The Canucks comment is inaccurate - Canucks traded 3 bad contracts (Beagle $3.0, Roussel $3.0 and Eriksson $6.0 - so a total of $12.0 in bad contracts). They also received Garland in the trade who was a 25 year old top 6 winger that just scored 39pts in 49 games. So the Futures you stated were less for OEL and more for the young top 6 winger.

3b) That trade was another in a long example of ignorant moves by the Benning administration that destroyed the Canucks while he was here and will continue to struggle due to the terrible manner that Benning ran the Canucks. So to use the OEL trade as a justification would simply put a team in the brutal situation the Canucks are in due to their mouth breathing, rock eating management group that set the team back a decade.

I'm going back to the the beginning. Petry from age 34-36/37 has top 4RD value. Petry is better than Martinez who was just signed from 34-36 at $5.25M.

Habs will be getting our asking price on Petry. Argue with me all you want... it will be like it was with Patch, Toffoli, Chiarot, Lehkonen.

Petry is not in decline like Gallagher who is showing signs of bad skating at a much earlier age. There are zero signs of decline on Petry other than looking at points in a season where he is drowning on a bad team. That's not decline, that team fit issues.

 

[Maitz]

I would retain 2M on Petry and only ask for a 2nd pick

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would retain 2M on Petry and only ask for a 2nd pick

Then you would be a horrible GM cause you overlook that Petry size/mobility from age 34-36 is still top 4RD quality.

But if you are looking to play nice and agree with others looking for like hits, that's one way to do it. You sure you are not talking about Gallagher and not Petry?

Your post reminds me of some Habs fans agreeing with others that Lehkonen is only worth a 2nd rounder. Too afraid to stand up against the devalue poster narratives.

 

[Boondock]

$1M is not a big difference cause Petry is better than Martinez.

Martinez from 34 to 36 (July birthdate).
vs
Petry from 34-36/37 (Dec birthdate)

Big difference my ass! Nice try, it's a 6 month difference where Petry is more mobile and can provide more offense. The $1M difference is valid cause Petry has more value. Reality

So your comparison to Martinez is understandable on the surface - similar aged dmen, similar contract. But when you drill down into the details of the 2 players it is very different.

Martinez was acquired in Feb. 2020 (just over 2 years ago) so he was traded at age 32 when his contract was $4.0. The cost for Martinez was 2 second round pucks. Martinez played for the Knights for 63 regular season games and 39 playoff games. After seeing him play for over 100 games, they re-signed him.

You are asking for a team to give up assets (a recent first round pick and a 2nd round pick - more value than Martinez received). Petry is currently 34 and signed until he is 37, so again a difference. Petry has just had a down year (a difference from Martinez) and has a NMC attached to his contract, and he is making $6.25, more than Martinez was making when he was traded and more than he re-signed for.

So there are concerns about Petry rebounding to his play of years gone by, but the assets required (in this thread) to acquire the player is significant compared to Martinez as well

 

[Habs Halifax]

So your comparison to Martinez is understandable on the surface - similar aged dmen, similar contract. But when you drill down into the details of the 2 players it is very different.

Martinez was acquired in Feb. 2020 (just over 2 years ago) so he was traded at age 32 when his contract was $4.0. The cost for Martinez was 2 second round pucks. Martinez played for the Knights for 63 regular season games and 39 playoff games. After seeing him play for over 100 games, they re-signed him.

You are asking for a team to give up assets (a recent first round pick and a 2nd round pick - more value than Martinez received). Petry is currently 34 and signed until he is 37, so again a difference. Petry has just had a down year (a difference from Martinez) and has a NMC attached to his contract, and he is making $6.25, more than Martinez was making when he was traded and more than he re-signed for.

So there are concerns about Petry rebounding to his play of years gone by, but the assets required (in this thread) to acquire the player is significant compared to Martinez as well

 

[Boondock]

Your complete inability to see anything other than your very narrow perspective went over my head? Nope I noticed it, I just provided actual information to your ignorance, not a meme.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your complete inability to see anything other than your very narrow perspective went over my head? Nope I noticed it, I just provided actual information to your ignorance, not a meme.

Nah, You're just missing the point cause you got Petry devalue narratives stuck in your head. Trying to use the Martinez trade where the Knights acquired him vs the actual signing at age 34. Reminds me of posters trying to use the Toffoli trade as a rental to the Canucks when the Habs were trying to trade him with term and he was trending much better.

Book mark it. Petry will return more than you are willing to admit today and he will remain a top 4RD from age 34-36/37. He's not a readily available piece or in massive decline. The size and mobility is still there and there are zero signs of decline with his skating. But the points man... the points... look at them. .

It's Petry we are trying to trade. Not Gallagher. You might have a point if it was Gallagher and he's younger. Go figure eh... this decline in the 30's is not some uniform decline line you can apply equally to all players. Reality but continue on

 

[Boondock]

Nah, You're just missing the point cause you got Petry devalue narratives stuck in your head. Trying to use the Martinez trade where the Knights acquired him vs the actual signing at age 34. Reminds me of posters trying to use the Toffoli trade as a rental to the Canucks when the Habs were trying to trade him with term and he was trending much better.

Book mark it. Petry will return more than you are willing to admit today and he will remain a top 4RD from age 34-36/37. He's not a readily available piece or in massive decline. The size and mobility is still there and there are zero signs of decline with his skating. But the points man... the points... look at them. .

It's Petry we are trying to trade. Not Gallagher. You might have a point if it was Gallagher and he's younger. Go figure eh... this decline in the 30's is not some uniform decline line you can apply equally to all players. Reality but continue on

I'm bookmarking that Petry will be traded for more than a value I never gave? That will be a difficult value to pin point if/when Petry's traded.

 

[Weltschmerz]

I can respect you prefer not to trade Lapierre. We can look at something else but we are getting the futures we want. Late 1st and B prospect or B+ and 2nd rounder with a small cap dump coming as well. Petry is a rare big man with mobility and is not in decline. He will remain a top 4RD from age 34-36.

Caps have 17 players signed with $9M in cap space. Difference between Petry and Hagelin is about $3.5M. Caps still have $5.5M left to make other improvements. I disagree the Caps can't afford him.

Also, said it before and will say it again. Bookmark it... Even if Petry is not a good fit, the Caps are going to look at improvements on D with their cap space. It's possible they improve both at goaltending and on D.

So you are saying 5.5M is enough with only 17 players signed and no goalies? What do you think a goalie tandem costs?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm bookmarking that Petry will be traded for more than a value I never gave? That will be a difficult value to pin point if/when Petry's traded.

Value of what I am saying today that you don't agree with. It's not rocket science.