Peterborough Petes 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 2)

[dirty12]

I actually said that Ottawa would have three lines like Peterborough’s second line and a fourth line that would be most productive in the league if they added two forwards. They’d have a third line relatively indistinguishable from their first from a production perspective.

I consider an elite line as having at least one player that scores 100 points, one player with at least 40 goals and a third complimentary player that rides shoot gun with the line.

When you don’t have a player that is on pace for 40 goals and don’t have a player on pace for 100 points, the team does not have an elite first line.

If you want to throw around the word “elite” for lines that score a combined 70 goals then the league would be chalk full of elite lines.

Ok, the only thing that matters to you is individual point accumulation. But quite possibly the fastest trio in the league that will be among the top in goal differential works for me.
And it seems to me you only watch OHL games involving the ‘67s.

 

[OMG67]

Ok, the only thing that matters to you is individual point accumulation. But quite possibly the fastest trio in the league that will be among the top in goal differential works for me.
And it seems to me you only watch OHL games involving the ‘67s.

And their +8 is evidence of their elite goal differentials.

When they actually do it, I will agree. Until they do it, I will argue they are not “elite.”

And Inwont provide any non-Peterborough examples because clearly there are followers on this thread that take offence when I provide other examples that are just as “average” as the performance of the Petes so far this season that also wouldn’t be considered elite.

Edit:
I am a 67s fan. I’ve stated multiple times that Ottawa doesn’t have an elite line and that they need an elite bonafide front line centre to help carry the responsibility load.
However, they have some solid balance. I view Peterborough in the same manner. Solid foundation depth with balance. North Bay is the same as well. Solid balance. To say that is not disrespectful. To say that any of these three top team having an elite line is just not accurate. Could each of these team end up with an elite line? Sure. But get the players needed first, then piece together the lines and go prove it. I’m not sitting here pumping the 67s roster. I’m using it as a measuring stick so the examples can be related. The top Ottawa forwards have solid five on five results which shows in their plus/minus totals. They also have a top PPand PK league wide so they aren’t compiling stats. And yet, I don’t feel they have an elite line because they don’t. They have balance, just like Peterborough.

 

[dirty12]

And their +8 is evidence of their elite goal differentials.

When they actually do it, I will agree. Until they do it, I will argue they are not “elite.”

And Inwont provide any non-Peterborough examples because clearly there are followers on this thread that take offence when I provide other examples that are just as “average” as the performance of the Petes so far this season that also wouldn’t be considered elite.

Cherry picker!
There was a lot line experiments conducted, particularly after Othmann was acquired. (Individual stats!) are not an indication of how dominant that trio have been.
ROS, watch an equal amount of OHL games to the games of the organization you think is elite.

 

[OMG67]

Cherry picker!
There was a lot line experiments conducted, particularly after Othmann was acquired. (Individual stats!) are not an indication of how dominant that trio have been.

I understand what you are saying. I get it. But I reserve the word “elite” for special players and in this case, lines.

Hamilton has an elite first line. He’ll, that’s all they have! But it is elite.

 

[Section7fan]

I actually said that Ottawa would have three lines like Peterborough’s second line and a fourth line that would be most productive in the league if they added two forwards. They’d have a third line relatively indistinguishable from their first from a production perspective.

I consider an elite line as having at least one player that scores 100 points, one player with at least 40 goals and a third complimentary player that rides shoot gun with the line.

When you don’t have a player that is on pace for 40 goals and don’t have a player on pace for 100 points, the team does not have an elite first line.

If you want to throw around the word “elite” for lines that score a combined 70 goals then the league would be chalk full of elite lines.

So Othmann (50G 97P in 2021) and Robertson (41G 81P in 2021) on the same line with Stillman or Avon would fit your “elite” status.

 

[OMG67]

So Othmann (50G 97P in 2021) and Robertson (41G 81P in 2021) on the same line with Stillman or Avon would fit your “elite” status.

What have they done this year and have they played together to prove it’s a fit? Ohtmann in a Petes jersey is basically a point per game.

Prove it first and then make the argument. Forecasting is just a forecast.

Prove it. Demonstrate it.

What Ohtmann did last year with different players isn’t meaningful when he came to the Petes and played with these players and didn’t do it to date.

Robertson also isn’t having the same year as last year. It happens. It isn’t always going to be an ascending climb.

Like Dirty said, you can also be elite by not being scored against but even the plus/minus numbers which measure five on five play aren’t aligned with elite level performance.

And there is nothing wrong with not being an elite line. If you have three balances lines that can go after the opposition in constant waves, that is good too. Ottawa has done well this year doing exactly that! In a lot of ways, I like the balanced attack. It’s just that in the OHL playoffs, teams need an elite line to go all the way. That is why teams like Peterborough and Ottawa are scrambling for the elite front line centre.

 

[dirty12]

I understand what you are saying. I get it. But I reserve the word “elite” for special players and in this case, lines.

Hamilton has an elite first line. He’ll, that’s all they have! But it is elite.

I can agree with the first sentence.
Hamilton has a very good OA duo that might make up a middling top line; similar to Musty-Goyette score a lot, but not a trio that will be the games top line 80% of the time.
Avon-Robertson-Lockhart have proven to be that line imo.

 

[OMG67]

I can agree with the first sentence.
Hamilton has a very good OA duo that might make up a middling top line; similar to Musty-Goyette score a lot, but not a trio that will be the games top line 80% of the time.

When you have a dynamic duo, all you need is a player that fits a certain role for the line. You don’t need to roll out three elite players to make an elite line.

Most elite lines have two dynamic players with a complementary player that fits well and plays a different role like puck retrieval in the corners or net front presence.

Just because the third player isn’t considered elite, it doesn’t mean the line isn’t elite.

Similarly, just because you have three elite players on a line doesn’t mean it is an elite line.

 

[dirty12]

When you have a dynamic duo, all you need is a player that fits a certain role for the line. You don’t need to roll out three elite players to make an elite line.

Most elite lines have two dynamic players with a complementary player that fits well and plays a different role like puck retrieval in the corners or net front presence.

Just because the third player isn’t considered elite, it doesn’t mean the line isn’t elite.

Similarly, just because you have three elite players on a line doesn’t mean it is an elite line.

Agree, but Morrison-Hayes and Musty-Goyette don’t have a third to to out play Avon-Robertson-Lockhart. I’m sure that if you saw a few of the most recent games played together or games pre-Othmann line experimentation you would agree with me.

 

[Section7fan]

What have they done this year and have they played together to prove it’s a fit? Ohtmann in a Petes jersey is basically a point per game.

Prove it first and then make the argument. Forecasting is just a forecast.

Prove it. Demonstrate it.

What Ohtmann did last year with different players isn’t meaningful when he came to the Petes and played with these players and didn’t do it to date.

Robertson also isn’t having the same year as last year. It happens. It isn’t always going to be an ascending climb.

Like Dirty said, you can also be elite by not being scored against but even the plus/minus numbers which measure five on five play aren’t aligned with elite level performance.

And there is nothing wrong with not being an elite line. If you have three balances lines that can go after the opposition in constant waves, that is good too. Ottawa has done well this year doing exactly that! In a lot of ways, I like the balanced attack. It’s just that in the OHL playoffs, teams need an elite line to go all the way. That is why teams like Peterborough and Ottawa are scrambling for the elite front line centre.

You said what your requirements were and they fit the bill but I guess we’ll change the requirements now that you realize we have what you said. They haven’t had a ton of time together with othmann being away and the way Wilson was mixing lines.

Also, Robertson is 1.21 PPG this year and he was 1.19 PPG last year. Not sure how he’s not having the same kind of season as last year.

 

[Zebra]

Zanetti is really impressing at the World juniors. The Swiss are the Cinderella team!

 

[OMG67]

You said what your requirements were and they fit the bill but I guess we’ll change the requirements now that you realize we have what you said. They haven’t had a ton of time together with othmann being away and the way Wilson was mixing lines.

Also, Robertson is 1.21 PPG this year and he was 1.19 PPG last year. Not sure how he’s not having the same kind of season as last year.

If you use that criteria, there are 20 ELITE lines in The league. If you are ok with 20 ELITE lines int he league than Peterborough has an ELITE line. Ottawa then has two ELITE lines without even one ELITE forward.

I said you need a player at 100 points and one at 40 goals. No one on the Petes is on pace for either. I don’t know what you are talking about with respect to me changing anything. Scroll back and read again.

Robertson is on pace for 80 points (36 goals) and he is the team leader In both points and goals. Cam Tolnai leads Ottawa and is only two points behind Robertson. There isn’t one reasonable analyst that would suggest for a second that Tolnai is ELITE or part of an ELITE line as a centre.

North Bay has Jackson and Petrov leading their team in scoring and both of those guys fit inside my criteria but even those two together don’t really fall under what I consider an ELITE line But at least they are within the ranges I have stated.

Robertson is on virtually same pace as last year. Almost identical. Othmann isn’t even in the same ballpark as last season. Not even close. Did he last season? Yes. But he is underperforming this season. Why? I don’t know but the reality is he is underperforming. He hasn’t even been the same player at the World Juniors right now.

If you are trying to say that you project them to be exponentially better than they have been so far then I say, ok, prove it and I will agree. We can have a discussion after the season.

You don’t see me sitting here suggesting that when Beck comes back from injury that he will score a goal a game and be elite Even though he was 22-22-44 last season. He hasn’t shown it this year. I adjust expectations based on demonstrated performance.

 

[dirty12]

If you use that criteria, there are 20 ELITE lines in The league. If you are ok with 20 ELITE lines int he league than Peterborough has an ELITE line. Ottawa then has two ELITE lines without even one ELITE forward.

I said you need a player at 100 points and one at 40 goals. No one on the Petes is on pace for either. I don’t know what you are talking about with respect to me changing anything. Scroll back and read again.

Robertson is on pace for 80 points (36 goals) and he is the team leader In both points and goals. Cam Tolnai leads Ottawa and is only two points behind Robertson. There isn’t one reasonable analyst that would suggest for a second that Tolnai is ELITE or part of an ELITE line as a centre.

North Bay has Jackson and Petrov leading their team in scoring and both of those guys fit inside my criteria but even those two together don’t really fall under what I consider an ELITE line But at least they are within the ranges I have stated.

Robertson is on virtually same pace as last year. Almost identical. Othmann isn’t even in the same ballpark as last season. Not even close. Did he last season? Yes. But he is underperforming this season. Why? I don’t know but the reality is he is underperforming. He hasn’t even been the same player at the World Juniors right now.

If you are trying to say that you project them to be exponentially better than they have been so far then I say, ok, prove it and I will agree. We can have a discussion after the season.

You don’t see me sitting here suggesting that when Beck comes back from injury that he will score a goal a game and be elite Even though he was 22-22-44 last season. He hasn’t shown it this year. I adjust expectations based on demonstrated performance.

You indeed did change the criteria, from your wording of elite line to elite individuals. And toss in Tolnai as a comparable for NHL signed Robertson for good measure? I really doubt a line of Beck-Rohrer-Boucher can be as good as Avon-Robertson-Lockhart never mind the ‘67s having two lines as good.

 

[OMG67]

You indeed did change the criteria, from your wording of elite line to elite individuals. And toss in Tolnai as a comparable for NHL signed Robertson for good measure? I really doubt a line of Beck-Rohrer-Boucher can be as good as Avon-Robertson-Lockhart never mind the ‘67s having two lines as good.

Post #75 I qualified what I considered were the elements of an elite line. Clearly my qualifiers for components of an elite line is a higher level than you and the others here.

For me, the OHL may only have two or three elite lines. You typically need an elite centre.

An elite line isn’t a line that scores 80osh goals. You need to score over 100 goals to even enter the conversation. An average OHL team will score about 260 goals. A line scoring 80 goals which is less than 1/3 of a teams goals isn’t elite.

An elite line also scores a lot at 5 on 5 and keeps the opposition off the scoreboard.

As of right now, no one can suggest Peterborough us a line that honesty meets this criteria. If they were to acquire Shane Wright then I would agree they would likely be able to claim they have an elite line with Othmann and someone like Avon. But right now? Are we being honest with each other?

I won’t apologize for setting the bar high to be considered an elite line.

You keep referring to Beck-Rohrer-Boucher. Beck has played 11 games and Boucher has missed almost half the season too? Why would you use players that basically haven’t played much?

I have not once suggested Ottawa has an elite line. I even pointed out that Tolnai right now sits 2 points behind Robertson and I one would not consider Tolnai elite. If Tolnai isn’t elite and projects to finish 5 points behind Robertson, how on Earth can anyone suggest Robertson’s line is “Elite?” He hasn’t performed to an elite level and yet he’s the centre and leading scorer.

I’ve stated many times that Ottawa doesn’t have an elite line. It is not like I am being biased.

I honestly don’t even understand what the issue is. Based on performance to date, of Peterborough has an elite line and we can honestly say they do then there are at least a dozen elite lines in the league. How watered down do you want to make the word elite?

 

[dirty12]

Post #75 I qualified what I considered were the elements of an elite line. Clearly my qualifiers for components of an elite line is a higher level than you and the others here.

For me, the OHL may only have two or three elite lines. You typically need an elite centre.

An elite line isn’t a line that scores 80osh goals. You need to score over 100 goals to even enter the conversation. An average OHL team will score about 260 goals. A line scoring 80 goals which is less than 1/3 of a teams goals isn’t elite.

An elite line also scores a lot at 5 on 5 and keeps the opposition off the scoreboard.

As of right now, no one can suggest Peterborough us a line that honesty meets this criteria. If they were to acquire Shane Wright then I would agree they would likely be able to claim they have an elite line with Othmann and someone like Avon. But right now? Are we being honest with each other?

I won’t apologize for setting the bar high to be considered an elite line.

You keep referring to Beck-Rohrer-Boucher. Beck has played 11 games and Boucher has missed almost half the season too? Why would you use players that basically haven’t played much?

I have not once suggested Ottawa has an elite line. I even pointed out that Tolnai right now sits 2 points behind Robertson and I one would not consider Tolnai elite. If Tolnai isn’t elite and projects to finish 5 points behind Robertson, how on Earth can anyone suggest Robertson’s line is “Elite?” He hasn’t performed to an elite level and yet he’s the centre and leading scorer.

I’ve stated many times that Ottawa doesn’t have an elite line. It is not like I am being biased.

I honestly don’t even understand what the issue is. Based on performance to date, of Peterborough has an elite line and we can honestly say they do then there are at least a dozen elite lines in the league. How watered down do you want to make the word elite?

I used Beck because I have not seen a better current ‘67s forward, when Beck has actually played.

I moved on from elite to top 5, and middling when your definition made me think Sarnia is the only team currently with a chance of having an elite line because individual points accumulated is the only you want to measure top lines.
You did convince me that dynamic duos such as; Cardwell-Vierling, Hayes-Morrison, Musty-Goyette, …are more often than not top 10 lines. You just cannot convince me that Avon-Robertson-Lockhart are not the top line in at least 80% of their games because I’m convinced the only time you’ve watched that line in action was a ‘67s loss.
If there is a likely time the Petes will be off their game, it would be New Years Day at Oshawa. Watch it, then tell me based on one viewing Avon-Robertson-Lockhart are not a top 5 line in the OHL.

Elite is your wording. You switched the narrative of lines to elite individuals. You want to elite this thing to death.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

I used Beck because I have not seen a better current ‘67s forward, when Beck has actually played.

I moved on from elite to top 5, and middling when your definition made me think Sarnia is the only team currently with a chance of having an elite line because individual points accumulated is the only you want to measure top lines.
You did convince me that dynamic duos such as; Cardwell-Vierling, Hayes-Morrison, Musty-Goyette, …are more often than not top 10 lines. You just cannot convince me that Avon-Robertson-Lockhart are not the top line in at least 80% of their games because I’m convinced the only time you’ve watched that line in action was a ‘67s loss.
If there is a likely time the Petes will be off their game, it would be New Years Day at Oshawa. Watch it, then tell me based on one viewing Avon-Robertson-Lockhart are not a top 5 line in the OHL.

Elite is your wording. You switched the narrative of lines to elite individuals. You want to elite this thing to death.

Check out Kocha Delic’s point in last 4 games playing along side Goyette and Musty. I call this line ELITE…and young.

 

[dirty12]

Check out Kocha Delic’s point in last 4 games playing along side Goyette and Musty. I call this line ELITE…and young.

The highest scoring 17-18 yr old line in the league. But OMG67 has me believing that there is no elite line right now.

 

[OMG67]

Check out Kocha Delic’s point in last 4 games playing along side Goyette and Musty. I call this line ELITE…and young.

Goyette and Musty have demonstrated themselves as an elite line. Both will push 90-100 points and Goyette will likely easy surpass 40 goals. Their plus/minus is solid on a weaker team. But have Goyette and Musty played together for most of the season?

If Delic joins them and that line stays as a unit, they’d go into next season as a force for sure.

 

[User13452]

No Dezoete today is interesting…

 

[Section5Petes]

No Dezoete today is interesting…

I didn't hear anything about him getting hurt in Kitchener, although we couldn't actually watch it...

 

[Bra Wavers]

No Dezoete today is interesting…

He dressed for warmup so I guess the question is minor injury or possible trade?

 

[Bra Wavers]

I didn't hear anything about him getting hurt in Kitchener, although we couldn't actually watch it...

I watched the Rangers game on CHL TV and Dezoete scored the empty netter with 2:30 left and was on the ice for the last shift of the game and didn't appear to hurt himself.......weird

 

[OMG67]

I watched the Rangers game on CHL TV and Dezoete scored the empty netter with 2:30 left and was on the ice for the last shift of the game and didn't appear to hurt himself.......weird

A lot of people are just sick. Maybe he’s struggling a bit with the flu?

If it were a trade situation, he wouldn’t have been in the warmup unless he was traded while he was in the warmup….

 

[dirty12]

Goyette and Musty have demonstrated themselves as an elite line. Both will push 90-100 points and Goyette will likely easy surpass 40 goals. Their plus/minus is solid on a weaker team. But have Goyette and Musty played together for most of the season?

If Delic joins them and that line stays as a unit, they’d go into next season as a force for sure.

For the most part it’s been Musty-Goyette. Delic was out for a stretch.
I have trouble accepting that in league awarding points for OTL, a 0.422 team has an elite line.

 

[Section5Petes]

DeZoete is playing today so I wonder what was going on