Prospect Info: Peter Holland

[Lord Flashheart]

Can he still kiss the Canadian soil?

 

[Teemu Salami]

Can he still kiss the Canadian soil?

He would have to shovel away some snow first.

 

[Jer416]

Holland isn't a better option than Kadri so the idea of him on the second line now that Bozak is back is laughable. The Leafs are my number 2 team and I've been watching them a lot this year and I can tell you Holland doesn't belong on their top-6. I do feel like he has nothing to prove in the minors and would be fine as their fourth line center. But by no means does this move make them any worse, or better for that matter. Holland is one of those players that when put into an a bigger role will be pretty good but then completely ordinary in a lesser one.

I have to believe he'll be able to play 3 games at some point down the stretch. If Nonis keeps him down there just to protect that pick than he deserves to get fired because his focus isn't on icing a playoff team. That's not to say Holland is the difference, merely that worrying about that is so petty and unimportant to the grand scheme of things.

Leafs fan here, just wanted to point out having Holland on our fourth line won't turn us into a playoff team (like you said). If Nonis keeps Holland down to protect the pick, then he's doing his job of saving an asset (the 2nd). So if Holland is kept down because of the pick, so be it. He won't do much for the big club and we have other AHL players to play his limited minutes. I understand it's a dick move in the eyes of Anaheim fans, but it's business and your GM knew Nonis could send him down when they made the condition in the trade

 

[Ducksforcup]

Leafs fan here, just wanted to point out having Holland on our fourth line won't turn us into a playoff team (like you said). If Nonis keeps Holland down to protect the pick, then he's doing his job of saving an asset (the 2nd). So if Holland is kept down because of the pick, so be it. He won't do much for the big club and we have other AHL players to play his limited minutes. I understand it's a dick move in the eyes of Anaheim fans, but it's business and your GM knew Nonis could send him down when they made the condition in the trade

For sure, I mean at the time of the trade I think most of us Duck fans expected that Peter Holland would not reach the threshold of 25 games.

I will say that the fact that it has gotten this close to the threshold has certainly piqued our interest.

 

[TheJoeMan]

Leafs fan here, just wanted to point out having Holland on our fourth line won't turn us into a playoff team (like you said). If Nonis keeps Holland down to protect the pick, then he's doing his job of saving an asset (the 2nd). So if Holland is kept down because of the pick, so be it. He won't do much for the big club and we have other AHL players to play his limited minutes. I understand it's a dick move in the eyes of Anaheim fans, but it's business and your GM knew Nonis could send him down when they made the condition in the trade

You're absolutely right. I should have added that if there was a situation where Holland should be called up but is kept down to protect that pick than Nonis should be criticized. I really want the Leafs to make the playoffs and if Holland helps than he should play. But if he stays with the Marlies for the rest of year, no big deal. We haven't had a good track record with second round picks and we're pretty deep with prospects anyway.

 

[Gliff]

Leafs fan here, just wanted to point out having Holland on our fourth line won't turn us into a playoff team (like you said). If Nonis keeps Holland down to protect the pick, then he's doing his job of saving an asset (the 2nd). So if Holland is kept down because of the pick, so be it. He won't do much for the big club and we have other AHL players to play his limited minutes. I understand it's a dick move in the eyes of Anaheim fans, but it's business and your GM knew Nonis could send him down when they made the condition in the trade

Not saying it is wrong to send him down becasue you are right he shouldnt be on the 4th line, but I have an issue with the bold. His job is to win games and make the playoffs. If an injury happens a month from now and they keep him donw for the sake of having a 2nd 6 months from now then he needs to be fired. That's a joke.

 

[Ducks DVM]

You're absolutely right. I should have added that if there was a situation where Holland should be called up but is kept down to protect that pick than Nonis should be criticized. I really want the Leafs to make the playoffs and if Holland helps than he should play. But if he stays with the Marlies for the rest of year, no big deal. We haven't had a good track record with second round picks and we're pretty deep with prospects anyway.

?

Sorry about the edit there, cat was dancing on the iPad. I think I repaired everything

 

[Jer416]

Not saying it is wrong to send him down becasue you are right he shouldnt be on the 4th line, but I have an issue with the bold. His job is to win games and make the playoffs. If an injury happens a month from now and they keep him donw for the sake of having a 2nd 6 months from now then he needs to be fired. That's a joke.

Well we'll never know lol. If an injury does happen (knock on wood) there are other candidates that might get the call. Nonis will have a few prospects to choose from, and no one will know whether the callup (if it isn't Holland) was to protect that 2nd.

 

[Warden of the North]

You guys will still get the 2nd. He wont be staying the rest of the year in the AHL, hes playing too well for that.

I think theres another move incoming for the Leafs in the near future. Doesnt make any sense otherwise.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

You guys will still get the 2nd. He wont be staying the rest of the year in the AHL, hes playing too well for that.

I think theres another move incoming for the Leafs in the near future. Doesnt make any sense otherwise.

There's no move coming. He's not playing with us cause nonis will not let the ducks get our 2nd rd pick. Holland is with the marlies for the rest of the year. Book it. Ducks will get the third rd pick. I agree he was playing well for us but that pick 2nd is going to be valuable to us if we keep ******** the bed.

The only way I see holland coming back up is if our centers go through another rash of injuries. I doubt that'll happen. Again.

 

[bminucci]

There's no move coming. He's not playing with us cause nonis will not let the ducks get our 2nd rd pick. Holland is with the marlies for the rest of the year. Book it. Ducks will get the third rd pick. I agree he was playing well for us but that pick 2nd is going to be valuable to us if we keep ******** the bed.

The only way I see holland coming back up is if our centers go through another rash of injuries. I doubt that'll happen. Again.

I don't think 2nd or 3rd matters to the Ducks as much. He was stuck behind too many centers in our system so either pick is better than what we were getting for him. Most of us were happy he did well in Toronto because he was a solid prospect that deserved a chance. I doubt he is the answer to the Leafs making the playoffs at the moment but more importantly he is not getting the minutes and will be better playing more minutes in the AHL. I hope the Leafs figure out what ails them and get the ship righted in time to make the playoffs. Maybe Holland is a part of that, maybe he isn't, but either way I think this is the right move on Nonis' part.

 

[mightyquack]

Did I stumble onto the Leafs board or something?

 

[TheJoeMan]

There's no move coming. He's not playing with us cause nonis will not let the ducks get our 2nd rd pick. Holland is with the marlies for the rest of the year. Book it. Ducks will get the third rd pick. I agree he was playing well for us but that pick 2nd is going to be valuable to us if we keep ******** the bed.

The only way I see holland coming back up is if our centers go through another rash of injuries. I doubt that'll happen. Again.

It doesn't need to be a rash of injuries, just one to Bozak or Kadri should warrant a call-up. If Carlyle knew how to roll four lines he should still be on the roster. I have to imagine a killer stint in the A should warrant a call-up too. Holland was already a point-a-game player in the Ducks system and he should rip it up after this experience.

 

[Duck Off]

Holland isn't a better option than Kadri so the idea of him on the second line now that Bozak is back is laughable. The Leafs are my number 2 team and I've been watching them a lot this year and I can tell you Holland doesn't belong on their top-6. I do feel like he has nothing to prove in the minors and would be fine as their fourth line center. But by no means does this move make them any worse, or better for that matter. Holland is one of those players that when put into an a bigger role will be pretty good but then completely ordinary in a lesser one.

I have to believe he'll be able to play 3 games at some point down the stretch. If Nonis keeps him down there just to protect that pick than he deserves to get fired because his focus isn't on icing a playoff team. That's not to say Holland is the difference, merely that worrying about that is so petty and unimportant to the grand scheme of things.

The ****?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You're absolutely right. I should have added that if there was a situation where Holland should be called up but is kept down to protect that pick than Nonis should be criticized. I really want the Leafs to make the playoffs and if Holland helps than he should play. But if he stays with the Marlies for the rest of year, no big deal. We haven't had a good track record with second round picks and we're pretty deep with prospects anyway.

Really?

 

[TheJoeMan]

The ****?

I like the Leafs. So what?

Really?

Take a look at our draft history, we've had a ton of busts with our second round picks. Look at 2008 alone. We had three and the only value we got out of them was Eric Christensen for Eric O'Dell and that was useful for like half a season. Mat Clark is well on his way to bust-ville. Now we have some guys who MIGHT pan out but we don't know yet. To date we've had two legit players who were second round picks in our 21 drafts (Matt Cullen and Ilya Bryzgalov). That could change in the next few years but as of now our track record with second round picks blows.

 

[Gliff]

I like the Leafs. So what?



Take a look at our draft history, we've had a ton of busts with our second round picks. Look at 2008 alone. We had three and the only value we got out of them was Eric Christensen for Eric O'Dell and that was useful for like half a season. Mat Clark is well on his way to bust-ville. Now we have some guys who MIGHT pan out but we don't know yet. To date we've had two legit players who were second round picks in our 21 drafts (Matt Cullen and Ilya Bryzgalov). That could change in the next few years but as of now our track record with second round picks blows.

Who doesnt have a tron of busts in the 2nd round...

 

[Kalv]

Devo is the best second rounder we have had in years. Shultz was previous one...

I think our drafting is overrated. Don`t want to sound like a dick, but - we are not so good at the later rounds. A lot of teams are finding good players there.
Andersen, Vatanen and maybe Roy looks like good picks, but others are really nothing impressive. Other teams have found a lot of gems in the lower rounds. We have 2,5 in 4 years. Nothing horrible, but nothing great either.

We benefited a lot from having few extra picks and we got Etem, Palmieri. With Fowler we were just incredibly lucky.
Lindholm was an awesome pick But we got him and Kerdiles after finishing at the bottom. Theodore might be a good one, but his defensive side is still a big concern - can`t say he was a bad pick, though. First round is not so bad (probably the ''worst'' 1st rounder we had since 09 is Holland). But we can and we should really work on those later rounds - imo, we are not so good at them

 

[snarktacular]

Who doesnt have a tron of busts in the 2nd round...

We are worse than average.

I don't remember the exact number, but I feel like it's in the vicinity of 25%-33% of 2nd round players should become a useful player. As compared to like 50% of first rounders.

 

[Ducksgo*]

I like the Leafs. So what?



Take a look at our draft history, we've had a ton of busts with our second round picks. Look at 2008 alone. We had three and the only value we got out of them was Eric Christensen for Eric O'Dell and that was useful for like half a season. Mat Clark is well on his way to bust-ville. Now we have some guys who MIGHT pan out but we don't know yet. To date we've had two legit players who were second round picks in our 21 drafts (Matt Cullen and Ilya Bryzgalov). That could change in the next few years but as of now our track record with second round picks blows.

Cullen, Bryz, Justin Schultz? Panned out he's a 2nd rounder. DSP? He panned out he's a NHLer.

1)John Gibson?
2)Sorensen? current World Junior Silver medalist this year.
3) Nic Kerdiles
4) William Karlsson

You're so full of **** I don't think you know anything regarding our 2nd round pick selections. We don't suck at drafting at 2nd round.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

You're so full of **** I don't think you know anything

Webster needs to redefine irony.

#EtemisNextCrosby

 

[TheJoeMan]

Cullen, Bryz, Justin Schultz? Panned out he's a 2nd rounder. DSP? He panned out he's a NHLer.

1)John Gibson?
2)Sorensen? current World Junior Silver medalist this year.
3) Nic Kerdiles
4) William Karlsson

You're so full of **** I don't think you know anything regarding our 2nd round picks enough to say we suck at drafting them. Horrible post

Thank you for ignoring the part where I said this could change in a couple years since, as you pointed out, we have a number of promising prospects. Prospects.They aren't NHL players yet and for all we know never will. I'm confident these players should make the jump but we can't assume that. Oh and Smith-Pelly hasn't panned out yet and how many games has Schultz played for us?

If you look at the post-05 lockout alone we have a lot of gems like Mikkelson, Swan, Tangradi, O'Dell, Deschamps, and Clark. It hasn't been good.

 

[GreatBear]

I went to the Ducks website to look up all of our second round picks. I then went to the TSN website to see how many NHL games they have played.

Articles that I have read, and I do not have the articles to quote, indicate about 33% of second rounders have a career in the NHL. However, career is defined under these articles as 100 or more NHL games. This does not mean 100 games with the team that drafted them, but 100 games total. I have also read, again without citations at this time, that it takes about five years to measure the success or failure of a draft.

Using that definition of success, the following Duck second round draft choices have played 100 or more NHL games in their career. I am cutting this off starting with the 2009 draft, since players drafted after that time have not met the five year period discussed above.

1996 - Matt Cullen
1999 - Jordan Leopold
2000 - Bryz
2002 - Tim Brent (he also was the Ducks third round choice in 2004)
2005 - Mikkelson
2007 - Tangradi
2008 - J Schultz

This represents a "success" rate of 7 out of 17 picks, or 41%. We really should reduce this to 7 out of 16 (44%), since Jordan Smith lost the sight in one eye while playing in the AHL and thus did not have the opportunity to make it to the NHL. Based upon the 33% average, this looks like good drafting.

We also may want to consider that the Ducks scouting staff changed starting with the 2009 draft, and the second round picks to date with the current scouting staff are:

2009 - Clark
2010 - DSP
2011 - Gibson, Karlsson
2012 - Kerdiles
2013 - Sorensen

Of these, Clark looks like a bust, while the others appear to have some potential to be of use to the Ducks either by making the team or as trade material.

 

[snarktacular]

I went to the Ducks website to look up all of our second round picks. I then went to the TSN website to see how many NHL games they have played.

Articles that I have read, and I do not have the articles to quote, indicate about 33% of second rounders have a career in the NHL. However, career is defined under these articles as 100 or more NHL games. This does not mean 100 games with the team that drafted them, but 100 games total. I have also read, again without citations at this time, that it takes about five years to measure the success or failure of a draft.

Using that definition of success, the following Duck second round draft choices have played 100 or more NHL games in their career. I am cutting this off starting with the 2009 draft, since players drafted after that time have not met the five year period discussed above.

1996 - Matt Cullen
1999 - Jordan Leopold
2000 - Bryz
2002 - Tim Brent (he also was the Ducks third round choice in 2004)
2005 - Mikkelson
2007 - Tangradi
2008 - J Schultz

This represents a "success" rate of 7 out of 17 picks, or 41%. We really should reduce this to 7 out of 16 (44%), since Jordan Smith lost the sight in one eye while playing in the AHL and thus did not have the opportunity to make it to the NHL. Based upon the 33% average, this looks like good drafting.

We also may want to consider that the Ducks scouting staff changed starting with the 2009 draft, and the second round picks to date with the current scouting staff are:

2009 - Clark
2010 - DSP
2011 - Gibson, Karlsson
2012 - Kerdiles
2013 - Sorensen

Of these, Clark looks like a bust, while the others appear to have some potential to be of use to the Ducks either by making the team or as trade material.

I don't think you can discount Smith, however you forgot Peat. So it would be like 8/17 = 47%, Schultz actually doesn't have 100 games yet, but it's pretty much assured.

How in the world did guys like Mikkelson, Peat, and Tangradi get 100 games?

So I guess we have actually been above average. Wow. Doesn't feel like it.

 

[TheJoeMan]

What's important to note is what kind of value we got for those players. Sure Leopold went on to a decent career but he didn't play a game for us and the return we got in trading him was terrible. Same thing with Schultz. He can go on to a Hall of Famer but since we got nothing out of him he was a waste of a pick. Cullen had a good run with us and help us get Ozolinsh and Bryz helped us win a Cup.

The object of a draft isn't to select players that will eventually be NHL players necessarily, it's to select players that will provide value to your team.