Penticton YoungStars Tourney (VAN/EDM/CGY/WPG) - Part 2

[QcFlames12]

I know we creamed them, but this game does show we need some of this physical element to our game. We probably match up even worse in the NHL than in this game.

Going to be Nasty against Calgary tonight then, although I expect the game to be very very close.

 

[izzy]

No Kylington

Wanted to see more play from Gillies

 

[saillias]

does Crosby not give Pittsburgh an offensive advantage night in night out? I'm not buying this "Edmonton will win anyway" story, but come on

McDavid>Bennett=Draisaitl>Nurse. Poirier's probably the best winger out there, but not in the conversation with the top 4 guys. No 1st round talent on CGY's blue line. Gillies looks like a stud. Let's not forget Reinhart isn't even here for Edmonton.

True and also true of the Flames NHL defense until acquiring Dougie Hamilton. I think you're going to be surprised by how good Kulak, Culkin and Morrison are.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

True and also true of the Flames NHL defense until acquiring Dougie Hamilton. I think you're going to be surprised by how good Kulak, Culkin and Morrison are.

By first round talent, I mean someone who'd warrant a first round pick. First round quality. Dougie, Brodie, Gio all fit that bill. No D prospects do.

As I think you'll be surprised by how good Laleggia is. Guy won an insane amount of NCAA awards. Same age as Kenney

 

[saillias]

why are we subtracting McDavid when comparing pools? this game sure

what's Calgary's pool minus Bennett?

Poirier, Gillies, Klimchuk, McDonald, Janko? Not like it's stellar

Draisaitl, Nurse, Reinhart, Brossoit, Yakimov.

EDM doesn't have the depth bc they trade away their 2nd and 3rd rounders. Calgary doesn't have the top end talent Edmonton does. Not really close

It sure helps your argument that Monahan made the team in his draft year +1. Yeah your prospect pool takes a hit when guys make the NHL right out of the draft. Too bad the Nurses and Draisaitls of the world weren't ready. Otherwise your prospect pool might be "weak" like ours

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

By first round talent, I mean someone who'd warrant a first round pick. First round quality. Dougie, Brodie, Gio all fit that bill. No D prospects do.

As I think you'll be surprised by how good Laleggia is. Guy won an insane amount of NCAA awards. Same age as Kenney

So... Kylington isn't a first round talent? Hickey, who is likely going to make team Canada is not a first round talent? Andersson, put up 64 points in the OHL last year as a rookie in his draft year? Ryan Culkin who put up .5 ppg and played on the top pairing in the AHL as a rookie, just a scrub? Kulak (.5 ppg as AHL rookie too), maybe the best player on the ice last night, just another scrub?

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

McDavid got bounced around pretty bad. Hope that's not a sign of things to come for him because he's gonna have a hell of a time lasting the season if it is.

I think seasoned fans know not to count prospect camps and preseason for ****.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

By first round talent, I mean someone who'd warrant a first round pick. First round quality. Dougie, Brodie, Gio all fit that bill. No D prospects do.

As if you would have admitted Gio or Brodie were "first round quality" when they were 18-19-20-21-21 like Kylington, Andersson, Rafikov, Kulak, and Culkin are, respectively.

There is no such thing as "first round quality". Guys like Brandon Gormley, Griffin Reinhart, David Rundblad, and Tim Erixon were all first round draft picks and none of them would likely go in the first round in a re-draft. Drafting defenseman at age 17 or 18 is a crapshoot. All too often the Subbans and the Charas and the Keiths and the Lidstroms fall because they have some wrinkles that need ironing, and when those wrinkles are ironed they're better than "first round talents" like the Bouwmeesters and the Eric Johnsons.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

It sure helps your argument that Monahan made the team in his draft year +1. Yeah your prospect pool takes a hit when guys make the NHL right out of the draft. Too bad the Nurses and Draisaitls of the world weren't ready. Otherwise your prospect pool might be "weak" like ours

yes, no young guys on the oilers roster that would boost their prospect pool. Yak, RNH, Klefbom all duds drafted in 2005

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

So... Kylington isn't a first round talent? Hickey, who is likely going to make team Canada is not a first round talent? Andersson, put up 64 points in the OHL last year as a rookie in his draft year? Ryan Culkin who put up .5 ppg and played on the top pairing in the AHL as a rookie, just a scrub? Kulak (.5 ppg as AHL rookie too), maybe the best player on the ice last night, just another scrub?

No, Kylington and Andersson who were 3 months ago drafted after 50th overall are not 1st round quality prospects. Don't know what they've done since then to prove that.

Hickey and Culkin, may be trending well but neither go 1st round in a re draft.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

As if you would have admitted Gio or Brodie were "first round quality" when they were 18-19-20-21-21 like Kylington, Andersson, Rafikov, Kulak, and Culkin are, respectively.

There is no such thing as "first round quality". Guys like Brandon Gormley, Griffin Reinhart, David Rundblad, and Tim Erixon were all first round draft picks and none of them would likely go in the first round in a re-draft. Drafting defenseman at age 17 or 18 is a crapshoot. All too often the Subbans and the Charas and the Keiths and the Lidstroms fall because they have some wrinkles that need ironing, and when those wrinkles are ironed they're better than "first round talents" like the Bouwmeesters and the Eric Johnsons.

Ah. So because Gio wasn't a stud at 19, we must consider the possibility that every guy drafted in later rounds with not much to show is a stud. As of today, right now, no flames D prospects are considered one of the 30 best players in their draft.

I can't say I project any guy drafted 60th overall 3 months ago on an NHL top pairing with any certainty whatsoever.

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

No, Kylington and Andersson who were 3 months ago drafted after 50th overall are not 1st round quality prospects. Don't know what they've done since then to prove that.

Hickey and Culkin, may be trending well but neither go 1st round in a re draft.

This. They were drafted outside the first round for reasons. Until they prove that they should have been first round picks in their draft year...they are not. I think Hickey and Kylington have some great potential though.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Hickey would definitely go I the 1st round.. maybe 2nd. Culkin, nah. Hickey is a great player and will be an an anchor for Team Canada this winter.

 

[Snakepit]

Obviously they're afraid of the big bad Flames and just want to piss off Calgary fans.

But in all honesty, it was unlikely he was going to play all three games. This tournament is about evaluating prospects. McDavid's on the team. He knows it, the Oilers know it, everyone else knows it. Most of these guys here probably wont even get into pre-season games for the Oilers.

Wouldn't be surprised if we don't see Nurse/Draisaitl in the last game.

For sure. I only expected to see him for a few periods. I'm surprised Bennett is even in tonight. Neither of those guys have anything to prove in a tourney like this.

 

[Aceonfire*]

No, Kylington and Andersson who were 3 months ago drafted after 50th overall are not 1st round quality prospects. Don't know what they've done since then to prove that.

Hickey and Culkin, may be trending well but neither go 1st round in a re draft.

Yup. I've never seen a prospect pool so overrated by its own fans.

It's not like Oil fans are calling guys like Yakimov, Slepyshev, and Chase, 1st round talents because they are not.

Kylington has 1st round potential but also has 5th round attitude. There is a reason he fell.

Culkin and Kulak are likely are nothing to write home about either. Every team has prospects like them.

And as for Hickey, he is trending up but he is still far from proven.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Hickey would definitely go I the 1st round.. maybe 2nd. Culkin, nah. Hickey is a great player and will be an an anchor for Team Canada this winter.

I'm not saying he's a first. But he's definitely trending towards a first round pick. I'd put him right there with Matheson, Reinhart, Skeji, Schmaltz, and Koekkoek in terms of success at that age. And he was a fifth round pick.

I've heard the sentiment from many Oilers fans that, "who cares about depth, First rounders/ blue chippers are all that matter", and frankly its terrible. Having fourth and fifth round picks develop into legit NHL prospects is huge. It's why we didn't have to have an 8 year rebuild like some teams. Look at our blueline right now. Which many have called "the best in the league". Only Dougie Hamilton was a first. (Smid too I guess but he's our #7)

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Yup. I've never seen a prospect pool so overrated by its own fans.

It's not like Oil fans are calling guys like Yakimov, Slepyshev, and Chase, 1st round talents because they are not.

Kylington has 1st round potential but also has 5th round attitude. There is a reason he fell.

Culkin and Kulak are likely are nothing to write home about either. Every team has prospects like them.

And as for Hickey, he is trending up but he is still far from proven.

How many AHL rookie defencemen do you have that put up .5ppg?

 

[Aceonfire*]

How many AHL rookie defencemen do you have that put up .5ppg?

After 26 and 37 games?

Nice sample size for a team that didn't even make the playoffs.

Brad Hunt was near PPg last year but that doesn't make him a good player.

The Barons made the playoffs because of defensive guys like Simpson, Musil, etc..

 

[saillias]

As if you would have admitted Gio or Brodie were "first round quality" when they were 18-19-20-21-21 like Kylington, Andersson, Rafikov, Kulak, and Culkin are, respectively.

lol I caught that too. A 31 year old undrafted guy and a former 4th rounder, but they're "first round quality"... Now... as veteran NHLers.

 

[McMozesmadness]

Any lines from the Flames yet?

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

After 26 and 37 games?

Nice sample size for a team that didn't even make the playoffs.

Brad Hunt was near PPg last year but that doesn't make him a good player.

The Barons made the playoffs because of defensive guys like Simpson, Musil, etc..

The answer I was looking for is 0. You have no prospects that did that.

Brad Hunt is 27.. those other guys are 21. Culkin had a tendon in his wrist cut with a skate (last ten games he was near a ppg as he got more powerplay time and responsibility). Kulak played the first half of the season in the ECHL where he was near a ppg.

 

[Stud Muffin]

The answer I was looking for is 0. You have no prospects that did that.

Brad Hunt is 27.. those other guys are 21. Culkin had a tendon in his wrist cut with a skate (last ten games he was near a ppg as he got more powerplay time and responsibility). Kulak played the first half of the season in the ECHL where he was near a ppg.

Klefbom and Nurse both did if we just throw sample size out the window like you already have .

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Klefbom and Nurse both did if we just throw sample size out the window like you already have .

Klefbom is in the NHL and Nurse is a top prospect. Not comparable to Culkin or Kulak at all...
My point was that the Flames have more talent on the blue-line then fans of other teams think. More because they were unhyped, lower round picks. Not because they weren't actually good prospects.
These aren't every day fourth/ fifth round picks like some posters have suggested. They were fourth and fifth round picks and have developed, over three years, into players with a legitimate shot to become NHL players.
I mean both Kulak and Culkin were great in this tournament last year, and the fact you guys still don't know them means you obviously don't even watch the Flames game.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

How many AHL rookie defencemen do you have that put up .5ppg?

Justin Schultz was damn near 1.5 PPG in the AHL.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The answer I was looking for is 0. You have no prospects that did that.

Brad Hunt is 27.. those other guys are 21. Culkin had a tendon in his wrist cut with a skate (last ten games he was near a ppg as he got more powerplay time and responsibility). Kulak played the first half of the season in the ECHL where he was near a ppg.

I've told you this before - the Flames don't have an AHL player like Brad Hunt to take offensive zonestarts and QB the powerplay. Hunt can't make an impact at the NHL level, but he's a healthy Kris Letang in the AHL. Guys like Simpson and Oesterle see more defensive zone time and less powerplay time because Hunt is there.

Because they don't have a Brad Hunt, it opens up opportunity for guys like Culkin.