Series Talk: Pens vs Habs Round 1 Best of Five - Episode 5: Camme toé

[Ryder71]

I sometimes wonder why we treat athletes a little different than we treat humans. We do this with celebrities, too.

I'll give 1 example. If I'm Justin Schultz, I'm possibly thinking of not playing. I cannot imagine they are being paid for this playoff. He's due for a contract and technically his contract expired 6/30. He could get paiiiiiiiiid in the offseason to set himself up. And let's face it.. if he faced a broken leg in this "playoff" he won't get paid.

Now.. you have to be away from your family in a pandemic. You are doing this in August. It feels so foreign as hockey players are just so so so into their schedule. Sid is an example of that.

So the "HEY IT'S THE CUP!" Yeah.. dude it's a game. It's a business. And if fans want to ignore that, that is so strange to me.

There are a lot of variables you factor into the equation. As far as payments to players I believe they make a pretty penny for this tournament the further they go. And if you're a guy like Shultz, this could help set him up for his final big pay day if he plays to his abilities. But generally speaking I don't think trying to win it for this guy or that guy will necessarily put a team over the top. Because most teams have such a scenario.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I mean... he REALLY hates the Flyers.

How many more of these are left after this one? Two?

I figure he makes it his goal to get in on at least one.

None, afaik it’s the last game before Montreal. It’s why I think he’ll play. It’s the last chance to shake off some rust for him and ice the full roster.

I sometimes wonder why we treat athletes a little different than we treat humans. We do this with celebrities, too.

I'll give 1 example. If I'm Justin Schultz, I'm possibly thinking of not playing. I cannot imagine they are being paid for this playoff. He's due for a contract and technically his contract expired 6/30. He could get paiiiiiiiiid in the offseason to set himself up. And let's face it.. if he faced a broken leg in this "playoff" he won't get paid.

Now.. you have to be away from your family in a pandemic. You are doing this in August. It feels so foreign as hockey players are just so so so into their schedule. Sid is an example of that.

So the "HEY IT'S THE CUP!" Yeah.. dude it's a game. It's a business. And if fans want to ignore that, that is so strange to me.

Yes, we dehumanize celebrities and athletes fall under that umbrella. It’s unhealthy and there’s some weird purity thing. They should purely do it for the love of the game and nothing else; they should play through crazy injuries and risk their long term health for the love of the game. Meanwhile, the mega rich owners sit there safely making money and/or having a toy to show off. Then people somehow side with them over the athletes during contract negotiations.

Financially speaking, Schultz is probably motivated to earn a contract in this tournament. He’s had a bad season and would benefit from a good showing. It’s why he should lie and say JJ left the bubble.

 

[Ryder71]

There is no real benefit to the team, exactly. It's a meaningless exhibition game.

The potential benefit would be to Crosby.

What benefit is there for Sid? He's been practicing for nearly two months now. You think it'll take him long to hit full stride in the upcoming series? Maybe a period, possibly two. I'm ok with that.

 

[Khelandros]

I mean... he REALLY hates the Flyers.

How many more of these are left after this one? Two?

I figure he makes it his goal to get in on at least one.

This is it. Real games start on Saturday.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

None, afaik it’s the last game before Montreal. It’s why I think he’ll play. It’s the last chance to shake off some rust for him and ice the full roster.

Ah. Hmmm... yeah well then it's like 50/50 huh?

What benefit is there for Sid? He's been practicing for nearly two months now. You think it'll take him long to hit full stride in the upcoming series? Maybe a period, possibly two. I'm ok with that.

All players, even Crosby, would prefer to test themselves in a real game-ish situation against players who aren't holding TOO much back like his teammates would in scrimmages. This goes even more for someone nursing a nagging issue. Take a few hits... see how you feel.

Obviously Crosby is Crosby and I don't make a habit worrying about him but he is no different in that regard. And is massively, overwhelmingly competitive besides. But if he doesn't go whatever... like you said he'd be mostly right after about a period of play so long as whatever has been bugging him doesn't flare up.

 

[Ryder71]

None, afaik it’s the last game before Montreal. It’s why I think he’ll play. It’s the last chance to shake off some rust for him and ice the full roster.




Yes, we dehumanize celebrities and athletes fall under that umbrella. It’s unhealthy and there’s some weird purity thing. They should purely do it for the love of the game and nothing else; they should play through crazy injuries and risk their long term health for the love of the game. Meanwhile, the mega rich owners sit there safely making money and/or having a toy to show off. Then people somehow side with them over the athletes during contract negotiations.

Financially speaking, Schultz is probably motivated to earn a contract in this tournament. He’s had a bad season and would benefit from a good showing. It’s why he should lie and say JJ left the bubble.

What makes anyone believe these players aren't getting paid for this? Because they are, and from what I understand pretty well (under the circumstances).

 

[Ryder71]

Ah. Hmmm... yeah well then it's like 50/50 huh?



All players, even Crosby, would prefer to test themselves in a real game-ish situation against players who aren't holding TOO much back like his teammates would in scrimmages. This goes even more for someone nursing a nagging issue. Take a few hits... see how you feel.

Obviously Crosby is Crosby and I don't make a habit worrying about him but he is no different in that regard. And is massively, overwhelmingly competitive besides. But if he doesn't go whatever... like you said he'd be mostly right after about a period of play so long as whatever has been bugging him doesn't flare up.

I wouldn't play Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust, Letang or Zucker today TBH. I just don't think it's necessary.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What makes anyone believe these players aren't getting paid for this? Because they are, and from what I understand pretty well (under the circumstances).

Players traditionally aren't paid in the post-season...

I wouldn't play Sid, Geno, Jake, Rust, Letang or Zucker today TBH. I just don't think it's necessary.

Considering this team is about a sturdy as champagne flutes strapped together with wet noodles, you can't be blamed. But I can tell you most guys will absolutely want to go to get one in under their belt before the actual games start in a very short series. And this being the only one... probably even moreso.

 

[Ryder71]

Players traditionally aren't paid in the post-season...

These aren't traditional times. And as I said, they are getting paid.

 

[Ryder71]

Considering this team is about a sturdy as champagne flutes strapped together with wet noodles, you can't be blamed. But I can tell you most guys will absolutely want to go to get one in under their belt before the actual games start in a very short series. And this being the only one... probably even moreso.

They can harness their game during game one on Saturday. They'll be fine.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

These aren't traditional times. And as I said, they are getting paid.

If you say so, I guess. I don't have any information on that one way or the other.

They can harness their game during game one on saturday. They'll be fine.

My dude... I'm not sure why this is so difficult. I don't care. They can do whatever they want. It's absolutely no skin off my teeth if they play this game or if they skip it and play ice whiffleball. I'm just telling you what their motivations are.

 

[Ryder71]

On a related topic, I'm looking to bet these series in earnest, my concern is if the virus disrupts or shuts the league down. What happens with my bet. I still haven't got clarification on that from the local casinos.

 

[Ryder71]

If you say so, I guess. I don't have any information on that one way or the other.



My dude... I'm not sure why this is so difficult. I don't care. They can do whatever they want. It's absolutely no skin off my teeth if they play this game or if they skip it and play ice whiffleball. I'm just telling you what their motivations are.

No, you're telling me (Mike AKA/Late night Captain AKA /Ryder, what you perceive their motivation as being. You really don't know about how they feel as it pertains to an exhibition game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... I'm pretty confident in the very safe and so-generally-accepted-it's-practically-a-cliche notion that guys in the top 1% of their craft are going to want to hone it at any given opportunity, especially with a Stanley Cup on the line. But you do you.

 

[Ryder71]

I mean... I'm pretty confident in the very safe and so-generally-accepted-it's-practically-a-cliche notion that guys in the top 1% of their craft are going to want to hone it at any given opportunity, especially with a Stanley Cup on the line. But you do you.

We're playing a warm up series against the 24th seed. We've had seven weeks to prepare. If that isn't enough then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I sometimes wonder why we treat athletes a little different than we treat humans. We do this with celebrities, too.

I'll give 1 example. If I'm Justin Schultz, I'm possibly thinking of not playing. I cannot imagine they are being paid for this playoff. He's due for a contract and technically his contract expired 6/30. He could get paiiiiiiiiid in the offseason to set himself up. And let's face it.. if he faced a broken leg in this "playoff" he won't get paid.

Now.. you have to be away from your family in a pandemic. You are doing this in August. It feels so foreign as hockey players are just so so so into their schedule. Sid is an example of that.

So the "HEY IT'S THE CUP!" Yeah.. dude it's a game. It's a business. And if fans want to ignore that, that is so strange to me.

I am gonna be the cynical asshole here but... if you are Schultz, you absolutely play.

Reason is simple: hockey culture is a very macho culture.

If you opt out AND you are a "fringe" player (like Schultz now is), you run the risk of being labeled a p***y unless IMPORTANT guys start to opted out.

Bubble seems safe. Unless you have an underlying condition, opting out could hurt your reputation quite a bit.

It is stupid and unfair, but it is what it is. Boys club. Macho bullshit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We're playing a warm up series against the 24th seed. We've had seven weeks to prepare. If that isn't enough then I don't know what to tell you.

You know what... this is hurting my head. I'm bored... I'm not THIS bored. And it's cluttering up this thread.

This is easy to test, anyway. Every player besides perhaps Crosby will be out there this afternoon... because they want a game situation to test themselves in before they count. When that happens you can gaze upon it and come up with some new pseudo-intellectual Jaden Smith-esque musing about why that might be. But don't tag me. Have a terrific day.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Over/Under on number of players intentionally injured by the Flyers during this exhibition game.

Starting with if the goalies will be the first target.

 

[RSPens]

Boo...that's only 1pm here...I'm still at work.

 

[Khelandros]

These aren't traditional times. And as I said, they are getting paid.

They are not getting paid. Once the regular season is done their contract for the season is done. They may have 1 more paycheck coming due to them deferring on their last paychecks, but can't find anything. There is Playoff pool money for teams depending on how they fare in the Playoffs. But for all intents and purposes, they are not getting paid.

 

[dogthateats]

Boo...that's only 1pm here...I'm still at work.

Flames and Oilers play at 7:30

 

[RSPens]

Flames and Oilers play at 7:30

True...however even though I really like the flames, the agreement that my wife and I made about 13 years ago, was that I would only watch Pens (and team Canada) games. I will try to sneak it in though.

 

[Ryder71]

You know what... this is hurting my head. I'm bored... I'm not THIS bored. And it's cluttering up this thread.

This is easy to test, anyway. Every player besides perhaps Crosby will be out there this afternoon... because they want a game situation to test themselves in before they count. When that happens you can gaze upon it and come up with some new pseudo-intellectual Jaden Smith-esque musing about why that might be. But don't tag me. Have a terrific day.

The players will be out there because the coaches want them out there. Does any individual player feel the need to actually be out there, particularly our stars? We don't know the answer to that.

 

[Peat]

I sometimes wonder why we treat athletes a little different than we treat humans. We do this with celebrities, too.

I'll give 1 example. If I'm Justin Schultz, I'm possibly thinking of not playing. I cannot imagine they are being paid for this playoff. He's due for a contract and technically his contract expired 6/30. He could get paiiiiiiiiid in the offseason to set himself up. And let's face it.. if he faced a broken leg in this "playoff" he won't get paid.

Now.. you have to be away from your family in a pandemic. You are doing this in August. It feels so foreign as hockey players are just so so so into their schedule. Sid is an example of that.

So the "HEY IT'S THE CUP!" Yeah.. dude it's a game. It's a business. And if fans want to ignore that, that is so strange to me.

111 a day per diem (down to 50-some on game days due to game day buffets), plus bonus money that amounts to 20k for first round losers and 240k for Stanley Cup winners. Not that much, but some.

But yeah, that's not why he's doing that.

Business wise though... he's not getting paid. Not with a flat cap, not with 12 points in 46 games, not with nearly a 100 missed man games in the last three seasons. I can't guarantee that but look into you heart, you know it to be true. These playoffs represent his last best chance to change the narrative and put some extra padding on his next contract. Business wise, this is a chance to boost the Schultz brand.

And maybe there's an injury risk. But I don't think it's as big as the risk of being seen as a coward who GMs don't want around for big games. Scandale's right here. Nobody without pressing medical reasons can afford to miss this, no matter what the NHL says. The league might forgive but GMs won't. I'm sure he'd get a contract, but there'd be less demand. Business wise, the risk-reward is way out of whack. Of course he's there.

Also... honestly, yeah, I think athletes are a little different from most humans. They're usually more driven, more competitive, more emotionally invested in the people they work with and the end goals, probably more easily bored by physical inactivity and protective of their rep. They do stuff most of us wouldn't do to begin with. I don't think that means they all want to be there 100%, or even 30% - I guarantee some are there solely because of the sort of peer pressure referred to above - but they're probably more up for this and more easily manipulated into being up for this than most of us.

 

[Ryder71]

They are not getting paid. Once the regular season is done their contract for the season is done. They may have 1 more paycheck coming due to them deferring on their last paychecks, but can't find anything. There is Playoff pool money for teams depending on how they fare in the Playoffs. But for all intents and purposes, they are not getting paid.

A playoff pool IS money. Why are you dismissing it?

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-player-playoff-compensation/

''players still receive compensation for a playoff appearance. The NHL and NHL Players’ Association (NHLPA) agree to set aside a playoff bonus pool to be distributed to each playoff team based on how far they advance. It’s referred to in Article 28 of the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) as the Player Fund''.