Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[Honour Over Glory]

Please acquire Patrik Laine

I think Columbus is looking at dealing him without retaining, because if they retain any salary then there would be quite a few teams curious about him, especially those with more cap space and wanting to add him to later be a massive trade chip in his final year where they can retain more and get more with dealing him vs a team that wants to see if he can rebound and keep him.

I still think it's some super dirty shit how the Rangers did Goodrow, he had the Sharks on his 15 team no trade list, got claimed by them on waivers, lol. Awkward.

In any case, if there's retention I can see a team like Carolina being super interested, they didn't get to keep Guentzel and are back to wanting to add offense to that roster and also keep Necas. I think without retention if the Canes can swing Kotkaniemi + to the Jackets for Laine, probably has us beat with whatever joke of an offer Kindergarten Kyle would come up with, with the assets we have left thanks to Sullivan shitting all over everything we could have had.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So sneaky youd almost think you never saw them shoot the puck

I always wonder how much of it is the coaching and how much of it is the player. Because you have these lads that are shooters that come up and are suddenly pass first and then I always think back to Sullivan and his "development" path for Sprong and how he basically wanted him to be a pass first player for Crosby, a player the team drafted for his scoring instincts and shot, no less.

I look at Valtteri Puustinen, he was a 2.5 shots per game player in the AHL that was down to almost a shot less in the NHL and maybe its because he was trying to elevate his linemates more given he was stuck with the likes of DOC and Eller for more than he was with Geno (where he looked best). He was a pretty consistent 10-12% shooting percentage player in WBS, then he comes up and is half that or worse in the NHL because of Mike Sullivan's illustrious usage and coaching methodology with youth. What was that video again? Oh right, how he talks about identifying talent and how to use them only for it to mean it was for veterans.

 

[Pancakes]

I always wonder how much of it is the coaching and how much of it is the player.

I think it's both. The NHL is a harder league so naturally Puustinen isn't going to maintain the same shooting ability there.

And then also yes Sullivan's (mis)use of players is also going to affect that.

 

[Jacob]

It’s because we don’t go to the net. Goalies see everything.

That little late season run coincided with acquiring Bunting and playing DOC more, who both know how to get in front of the goalie.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s because we don’t go to the net. Goalies see everything.

That little late season run coincided with acquiring Bunting and playing DOC more, who both know how to get in front of the goalie.

Doc produced on Sids line but it was barely a net positive given how much they also gave up together. It was like for every goal they scored, they allowed a goal 75% of the time.


Edit: It was worse than that, they were combined for 13GF and 14GA.

Again, while they scored, they were pure ass otherwise, they scored, then gave up a goal. The best usage for Crosby and Rust is with Rakell and always has been for Sid needing that balance on his line, Rakell has provided that better than anyone on the current roster.

With G-C-Rust it was something like 23GF, 21GA.

 

[Jacob]

Doc produced on Sids line but it was barely a net positive given how much they also gave up together. It was like for every goal they scored, they allowed a goal 75% of the time.


Edit: It was worse than that, they were combined for 13GF and 14GA.

Again, while they scored, they were pure ass otherwise, they scored, then gave up a goal. The best usage for Crosby and Rust is with Rakell and always has been for Sid needing that balance on his line, Rakell has provided that better than anyone on the current roster.

With G-C-Rust it was something like 23GF, 21GA.

I don’t think he makes that line worse defensively than Guentzel so I’ll blame the goalies.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think it's both. The NHL is a harder league so naturally Puustinen isn't going to maintain the same shooting ability there.

And then also yes Sullivan's (mis)use of players is also going to affect that.

Usage definitely helps.

The funny thing is Drew had his best season this past year, his 3rd I guess year in the NHL if you will, Puustinen being used in the most idiotic ways was on pace to top or put up nearly the same in his first long look in the NHL mostly in the bottom 6 without the same top 6 usage as DOC. Usually you want these types on a roster that needs to push more "from within" talent and DOC & Puus are solid young players that deserve better usage, but the usage for DOC is definitely not with Crosby as much as many here want it to be because he produced. The thing is he also produced very well with Eller. The mismatch and the better defensive players on his line allowed him to take more advantage of his scoring instincts.

DOC's usage was better with Malkin and Smith and Eller and Zohorna than it was with Sid's line. Sure he scored on Sid's line, but he wasn't making that line better by any stretch. Puustinen meanwhile looked better on his off wing with Smith when Eller was the C than he was with Malkin, but on his natural RW side with Geno he was a huge push for Malkin's game, especially with Bunting on the other side.

I don’t think he makes that line worse defensively than Guentzel so I’ll blame the goalies.

How dare you blame the hero and saviour of Penguins goaltending in Alex Nedeljkovic.

Also that doesn't really jive but I guess if blokes here really want to make DOC make sense, they will.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And @Jacob I agree - they don't go to the net. Although I would argue Puustinen, DOC, and Bunting (for top 6-ish wingers) definitely went to the net even though the rest of the line didn't identify it enough, Rakell didn't as often because of his bum shoulder all season and Jake seemed allergic to the general area the last couple of years. I think stylistically, the coach just doesn't seem to strategize the forward group to go to those areas with his forechecking, zone presence, etc. Rust to me has just become this cocky version of himself, he doesn't do the things that got him to the NHL and focuses more on his offensive game. He used to be a smart 2-way winger, now he's barely any help in that regard to Sid & Geno.

Sullivan's system sure as shit does love allowing the opposition to get to the front of the Pens net without any issue though.

 

[HandshakeLine]

SID HAS SIGNED!!!!!

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816511348236275849

@ColePens ?

 

[BusinessGoose]

You know @ColePens wouldn't be caught in off the rack crocs

Limited edition 'Fashion MOGULxCrocs' only

 

[Gurglesons]

Laine makes so much sense for us.

 

[Andy99]

Laine makes so much sense for us.

Only if we can trade Jarry and one of plethora of overpaid bottom six forwards…

 

[Gurglesons]

Only if we can trade Jarry and one of plethora of overpaid bottom six forwards…

Graves
Eller
2nd round pick
Owen Pickering

Laine
Provorov at 50%

 

[chethejet]

If pens were potentially a RW away from being a cup contender OK. But he is simply not a player I take on here at that AAV and his fall off the last 2 years. Rakell is a better overall RW and Rust gives the Pens a RW scoring threat as well. I prefer Puustinen play and hopefully he develops into a threat with his shot. No more all in BS by adding players who need to find themselves again.

 

[Gurglesons]

If pens were potentially a RW away from being a cup contender OK. But he is simply not a player I take on here at that AAV and his fall off the last 2 years. Rakell is a better overall RW and Rust gives the Pens a RW scoring threat as well. I prefer Puustinen play and hopefully he develops into a threat with his shot. No more all in BS by adding players who need to find themselves again.

Last 2 years?

In 22-23 he had 52 points in 55 games. That's a 78 point pace and he paced for 33 goals.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Laine makes so much sense for us.

If there were a dislike button, Sullivan would be smashing his keyboard pounding on it.

SID HAS SIGNED!!!!!

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816511348236275849

Sid's signature looks like it says "Sly Guy".

 

[Zbynek]

I think Columbus is looking at dealing him without retaining, because if they retain any salary then there would be quite a few teams curious about him, especially those with more cap space and wanting to add him to later be a massive trade chip in his final year where they can retain more and get more with dealing him vs a team that wants to see if he can rebound and keep him.

I still think it's some super dirty shit how the Rangers did Goodrow, he had the Sharks on his 15 team no trade list, got claimed by them on waivers, lol. Awkward.

In any case, if there's retention I can see a team like Carolina being super interested, they didn't get to keep Guentzel and are back to wanting to add offense to that roster and also keep Necas. I think without retention if the Canes can swing Kotkaniemi + to the Jackets for Laine, probably has us beat with whatever joke of an offer Kindergarten Kyle would come up with, with the assets we have left thanks to Sullivan shitting all over everything we could have had.

Laine's value is really hard to gauge. Players with his raw talent don't become available every year. But there are clearly defined risk factors which will factor into his trade value.

The way I look at it is this: If they do trade him, CBJ will look to maximize his trade value because he's such a raw talent, and their best shot at doing that is retaining 50%. Then I feel you are actually going to get a return that makes sense.

Even though Petts is our only actual d-man who can play defense, I'm down to trade him as giving him a big contract doesn't make much sense either. No bs package of Elller, Acciari, Graves, whatever will compete with other teams offers if Laine at 50% is on the table.

Laine makes so much sense for us.

How funny will it be when the Pens have Laine and Karlsson (on the roster at the same time as 87-71-58) and we still miss the playoffs.

 

[Pancakes]

Laine makes so much sense for us.

Seems like the type of gamble that would be worth making if Dubas is actually trying to compete.

The two main issues I see are Sullivan would probably hate him and Columbus supposedly wants picks/futures for him and Dubas isn't interested in giving those up.

 

[Gurglesons]

Seems like the type of gamble that would be worth making if Dubas is actually trying to compete.

The two main issues I see are Sullivan would probably hate him and Columbus supposedly wants picks/futures for him and Dubas isn't interested in giving those up.

Not even worried if we aren’t trying to compete. He’s the type you move some futures for and then hopefully recoup them at the 25-26.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Anyone who plays with dogs can’t be bad

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817282061868417253

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Laine would be a nice jolt for this org.

Don’t think we ultimately get this done.

 

[Jacob]

Not really relevant, just curious: is that vitiligo?

 

[Victor Z]

Not really relevant, just curious: is that vitiligo?

I'm not sure what his dog's name is.

 

[SEALBound]

I wish we could draft the next Dustin Byfuglien or Brent Burns. Some monster sized Forward/Dman that can throw the body.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I wish we could draft the next Dustin Byfuglien or Brent Burns. Some monster sized Forward/Dman that can throw the body.

Mom - “We’ve got Byfuglien/Burns at home.”